Small Plane Crashes in Austin Tx

[~Bo]

Originally Posted by wolfwalker

my family members have been victims of violence. my mother was shot and killed in front of me when i was 4 yrs. old. my father being a police officer was shot and almost died protecting the citizens of this country. he also fought in ww2. i have family members who were killed and some injuried doing their jobs.

that being said, i did not act out in violence as a result. any more questions?

Yeah....how bout my question of if you think what he did was ok because he was mad at the gov't?

[wolfwalker]

Originally Posted by ~Bo

Yeah....how bout my question of if you think what he did was ok because he was mad at the gov't?

He was attacking the govt. which screwed him over something fierce. he set the house on fire so the IRS would not get anything out of it. do you think the govt. gives a shit about his wife and child? they were taking the house period.

they do it often. pay your pound of flesh or lose everything you own and end up homeless. payment plan? after slapping on their punishment fees. they proceed to take everything you own. thats their payment plan.

i think what he did was what he saw as the only thing left to do after watching them take everything he had.

remember the boston tea party?

[Rufusboi]

Originally Posted by wolfwalker

He was attacking the govt. which screwed him over something fierce. he set the house on fire so the IRS would not get anything out of it. do you think the govt. gives a shit about his wife and child? they were taking the house period.

they do it often. pay your pound of flesh or lose everything you own and end up homeless. payment plan? after slapping on their punishment fees. they proceed to take everything you own. thats their payment plan.

i think what he did was what he saw as the only thing left to do after watching them take everything he had.

remember the boston tea party?

From what I've been reading though it doesn't sound like it was a one time thing with this guy. He has had IRS problems for 20 years. Some of it had to be of his own doing. He is not blameless. I don't see him as a victim of the IRS. He sees himself as this helpless victim and that's where I have a problem with him. Then he turns around and victimizes innocent people. But this whole victim mentality really irks me. It isn't any secret what the IRS does if you screw around with taxes. Its not that hard to keep records. Its not that hard to hire someone to do your taxes for you. Its not that hard to pay your taxes (well it is painful writing that check every quarter). But you get my meaning. I'm not supporting the IRS or making any comments about tax laws, taxing, tax rates, fairness and so on etc. And I know people get fed up paying taxes and seeing how the money is wasted by the government. I'm talking about this guy and his lack of personal responsibility.

Rufus

[Linus]

Originally Posted by wolfwalker

He was attacking the govt. which screwed him over something fierce. he set the house on fire so the IRS would not get anything out of it.

If he set his house on fire as a statement to the gov't, why did he do it with his wife and kid inside (who, from what I remember reading, barely managed to get out)?

And, I could be mistaken but his estate is still responsible for the taxes. This means his wife will likely be left with the bill at the end of all this.

I don't think he took the best way out. He took the way that was the most selfish and self-serving. If he wanted to be courageous, why not stand up and find legal issue with them or pay the taxes, sell everything and live off the grid where they can't go after him for his taxes.

I got dinged last year by Canada (who's tax service is no less friendly than the US's) and paid what I owed, well aware of the interest I'd have to incur for any late fees. I've been audited (scary but I made it through). Part of being a member of society and a community is paying into the communal pot every year for the services that are provided, many that aren't so obvious. We whine about taxes but we would and do whine when services get cut. Those things cost money and in a country the size of the US, it ain't a cheap process.

Do gov't make mistakes? Yes.

Can I address those with a gov't official? Yes.

Is it worth killing myself or others over? No.

The US, to me, feels like it's at an all-time high in the midst of a "I want, I want, I want" society. And if we don't get what we want, we whine, cry, rant and generally behave like spoiled toddlers. I don't see this getting easier nor do I see events like this, unfortunately, being the only incident. I think we'll see others for a while yet as the overall market still settles.

[wolfwalker]

we have come to a pass here.

his wife put out a statement. she is quite fine and did not barely escape. His oldest child, put out a statement calling her dad a hero. good enough for me.

you are going to think as you wish. so am i. but if ever you have a run in with a govt. agency and would like to review this let me know.

meanwhile i have life issues to deal with.

be well

[Linus]

Originally Posted by wolfwalker

we have come to a pass here.

his wife put out a statement. she is quite fine and did not barely escape. His oldest child, put out a statement calling her dad a hero. good enough for me.

you are going to think as you wish. so am i. but if ever you have a run in with a govt. agency and would like to review this let me know.

meanwhile i have life issues to deal with.

be well

I suspect you won't return but for those curious:

Suicide Pilot's Daughter 'Sorry' for Her Father

Joe Stack's Daughter Samantha Bell Agrees With Victim's Son: Vernon Hunter Was the Hero

By LEE FERRAN

Feb. 23, 2010 —

The daughter of the man who killed a government worker in a suicide plane attack last week said today she felt sorry for her father.
"His actions at the end were extremely horrific and I'm deeply sorry for my father," Samantha Bell said of Joe Stack, who perished in the crash into IRS offices in Austin, Texas.



Bell also recanted her earlier characterization of her father as a hero.
"His last actions, the suicide, the catastrophe that caused injuries and death, that was wrong," Bell told "Good Morning America" in a telephone interview that aired Monday. "But if nobody comes out and speaks up on behalf of injustice, then nothing will ever be accomplished. But I do not agree with his last action with what he did. But I do agree about the government."



When asked if she considered her father a "hero," Bell, 38, said, "Yes, because now maybe people will listen."



Bell later called "Good Morning America" to retract her statement and say unequivocally that her father was "not a hero" in an interview that aired today.



She said the only hero involved in the attack was its victim, Vietnam veteran Vernon Hunter.



"I don't want to hurt anybody," Bell said. "We are mourning for Vernon Hunter."



Before crashing a small airplane into Internal Revenue Services offices in Austin, Texas, last week, Stack posted a lengthy, rambling suicide note online that railed against the government, the IRS and taxes specifically as part of a "totalitarian regime."



Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner toured the destruction of the Austin IRS building Monday.

"We just spent an hour with the men and women who work in that building, listening to them talk about their colleague who died, what an inspirational leader he was, we listened to the stories they told about evacuating this building in three minutes, all the lives they saved by working together," Geithner told reporters Monday.

Victim's Son: Stack is No Hero

Ken Hunter, son of Vernon Hunter, who was killed in the attack, refuted Bell's earlier statement on Monday, saying Stack's not the hero in this situation, but his father is.

"How can you call someone a hero who after he burns down his house, gets into his plane ... and drives it into the building to kill people?" Hunter told "Good Morning America." "My dad Vernon did two tours of duty in Vietnam. My dad's a hero."

Bell said Monday there were "zero signs" that her father harbored such strong anti-government sentiments.

"He may have been somewhat frustrated, but he was a very quiet man," she said. "The father I knew was a loving, caring, devoted man who cherished every moment with me and my three children, his grandchildren. ... This man who did this was not my father.
"He must've kept this bottled up all these years."

Vernon Hunter was also a grandfather and to Vernon's son, Stack's actions will not change anything.

"The only difference he made was he took away from my family and murdered a 20-year U.S. Army vet," Ken Hunter said.

To Hunter's family, Bell offered her "deepest condolences."

"I lost my father, but I feel guilty to be mourning my father because I know other people have been affected and a wonderful man has died because of my father's actions. And I need to pay my respects and mourn for the man and his family," she said.

Joe Stack's Daughter: Torched Home Was 'Part of Government'

Before attacking the IRS offices, Stack burned down his wife's home. While many debated Stack's motives for the arson, Bell said it was likely all part of his anti-government rampage.

"As we pay taxes, we pay taxes on our home as well, and my belief is that the house was part of the government," she said. "He wanted to get rid of what was left."

Bell, who lives in Norway and criticized the American system as "very faulty," said that she hopes "everything" will change in light of her father's attack.

"But Rome was not built in one day. But one small step at a time. One step at a time," she said.

Since, she repeatedly said that her father should have chosen a non-violent means of protest.

"If he had actually just stood up to the government, [using] freedom of speech and did all he could besides doing what he did -- flying his airplane into a building and burning his house -- I think that would've been more effective," she said. "He stood up to the system. But at the same time, he loved his family. We are at a great loss."

Copyright © 2010 ABC News Internet Ventures

Bolding in the article mine.

[Dude]

I picked this article because it seems to be the only one calling this
deranged egomaniac a murderer.

The real victim in this thing called reality is Vernon Hunter.

I am unsure if the amount he owed here is correct ( I'm sure more will be revealed)
$4000 - $6000 owed to the IRS is what the victims son is saying here.
small change to most plane owners ( I imagine)

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/02...xas-irs-crash/

[Rufusboi]

Originally Posted by Linus

I

The US, to me, feels like it's at an all-time high in the midst of a "I want, I want, I want" society. And if we don't get what we want, we whine, cry, rant and generally behave like spoiled toddlers. I don't see this getting easier nor do I see events like this, unfortunately, being the only incident. I think we'll see others for a while yet as the overall market still settles.

The "I deserve" mentality.


Rufus

[Diavolo]

Originally Posted by Linus

The US, to me, feels like it's at an all-time high in the midst of a "I want, I want, I want" society. And if we don't get what we want, we whine, cry, rant and generally behave like spoiled toddlers. I don't see this getting easier nor do I see events like this, unfortunately, being the only incident. I think we'll see others for a while yet as the overall market still settles.

It is Linus. We learned to behave badly under the Reagan Administration and have not unlearned those bad behaviors. The 80's were the me-me-me generation and we haven't grown a bit since then. We're a country of spoiled petulant children. We don't care about a thing beyond ourselves. We're mean spirited, warring and selfish. It's embarrassing.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Diavolo

It is Linus. We learned to behave badly under the Reagan Administration and have not unlearned those bad behaviors. The 80's were the me-me-me generation and we haven't grown a bit since then. We're a country of spoiled petulant children. We don't care about a thing beyond ourselves. We're mean spirited, warring and selfish. It's embarrassing.

I would say (instead of 'we') that 'some of us' are spoiled petulant children. Otherwise I agree with what you say.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I would say (instead of 'we') that 'some of us' are spoiled petulant children. Otherwise I agree with what you say.

pouting. but not spoiled. definitely petulant. that's me. hug it out of me this weekend pls.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

pouting. but not spoiled. definitely petulant. that's me. hug it out of me this weekend pls.

yes ma'am....I intend to do that and dance too..... and I'm even gonna buy a brand new white A-shirt so it will be all sparkly white.......

[~Bo]

Originally Posted by wolfwalker

He was attacking the govt. which screwed him over something fierce. he set the house on fire so the IRS would not get anything out of it. do you think the govt. gives a shit about his wife and child? they were taking the house period.

they do it often. pay your pound of flesh or lose everything you own and end up homeless. payment plan? after slapping on their punishment fees. they proceed to take everything you own. thats their payment plan.

i think what he did was what he saw as the only thing left to do after watching them take everything he had.

remember the boston tea party?

He attacked the gov't by aiming his plane at a building full of people????????? How is that attacking the govt. Really bad aim?
He attacked innocent people. Period.

This guy graduated from high school near where I live. People around here who knew him say he was extremely intelligent.
So don't be telling me that he didn't know EXACTLY what he was doing and who he would be killing.