only another butch would understand

[Random]

Heys beau...

So.. I have a question that has been burning on the tip of my fingers for YEARS.. but now feel that I can ask this question..

So.. what of the butch who is a living breathing sterotype of what a sterotype of a butch is? You speak for yourself as a non burping femail id butch who has no concerns regarding your masculinity.. Can't a male ID burping, concerned about being demascunlized butch speak up as well?

You get to talk for you.. He gets to talk for him...

I have someone who I call my brother.. He is the stero type of a hard working blue collar masculine ID butch.. When he and his girl get into a fight, she does the *call him by his birth name* to hurt and make him feel bad about himself.. that who he is in his head, is not who he is in body or on paper... it matter to him.. it hurts him... It might not hurt you for someone to call you by your birth name.. But for someone you love and trust to knowingly go for your soft spot.. It's not a lovely thing..

The lovely thing about the world is.. People come in all kinds of flavor.. all different types... Not one way is the right way to be...

Male ID Butchs... they are not just some *stero type* They are living breathing people who have the same right as anyone else to complain, say what makes them smile, what makes them happy, and what makes them cry...

If you are sad about the first thread being started by butches being more of the masculine/male ID flavor.. then start one where it's not.... Don't make people feel bad about them selfs because they are different than you...


Huggs.. and much love to the Mrs...

Originally Posted by beau4afemme

Thanks for this, Metropolis. As a non-burping, female-identified butch, I have no concerns regarding my masculinity. I'd be thrilled to be acknowledged in the world for the different type of woman I am. And, no, no woman/partner/date has ever attacked me for that. Either I'm lucky, or I just have too much natural T to make that an issue. Regardless, I'm mostly disappointed that the first "butch" thread is already centered on male stereotypes as a marker of what butch is. That's just fucking sad.

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[Jet]

Originally Posted by Ms Cyn

I have someone who I call my brother.. He is the stero type of a hard working blue collar masculine ID butch.. When he and his girl get into a fight, she does the *call him by his birth name* to hurt and make him feel bad about himself.. that who he is in his head, is not who he is in body or on paper... it matter to him.. it hurts him... It might not hurt you for someone to call you by your birth name.. But for someone you love and trust to knowingly go for your soft spot.. It's not a lovely thing..

s...

I get this exactly and it does hurt your pride and heart. It's bad enough to feel like you're in the wrong body always saving face and never feeling like you can just be you without being scrutinized and then to have someone you love and whom you wouldn't hurt demoralize and and completely negate your love, your masculinity and your person as being nothing. I don't care how much anyone says they roll off the comments. It's not that easy, not for me because in that moment in time she shattered my trust in the relationship and in the quality of the person i thought her to be....then negated the person whom I thought she loved as "her man"

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Ms Cyn

.. she does the *call him by his birth name* to hurt and make him feel bad about himself.. that who he is in his head, is not who he is in body or on paper... it matter to him.. it hurts him...

I am so sorry to say that I have seen this again and again and again---and not just from Femmes, either--I have seen people of all gender identities in our community do this to each other. It's a very bad habit. There are really no words that adequately describe this kind of deliberately malicious pain-infliction, this silencing, this intention to wipe a person's true being off the face of the earth simply because one doesn't like what they said or did.

You would think that any of us who are concerned about being invisible would be grown-up enough to control ourselves even in anger, grown-up enough to restrain ourselves from this kind of utter disrespect. Invalidating another person's identity, making them invisible simply because we are angry, says nothing about them--but a whole world about us.

I just don't understand why people don't get that.

[Beau]

Originally Posted by Ms Cyn

Heys beau...

So.. what of the butch who is a living breathing sterotype of what a sterotype of a butch is? You speak for yourself as a non burping femail id butch who has no concerns regarding your masculinity.. Can't a male ID burping, concerned about being demascunlized butch speak up as well?

No delineation was made as to butch IDs. Everyone can speak up everywhere. I did not say otherwise.

You get to talk for you.. He gets to talk for him...

Obviously. I spoke only for myself.

I have someone who I call my brother.. He is the stero type of a hard working blue collar masculine ID butch.. When he and his girl get into a fight, she does the *call him by his birth name* to hurt and make him feel bad about himself.. that who he is in his head, is not who he is in body or on paper... it matter to him.. it hurts him... It might not hurt you for someone to call you by your birth name.. But for someone you love and trust to knowingly go for your soft spot.. It's not a lovely thing..

I imagine that would hurt very much, yes. I'm sorry for anyone's personal pain.

The lovely thing about the world is.. People come in all kinds of flavor.. all different types... Not one way is the right way to be...

No, there is not one way to be, which is why a stereotype employed to describe all is a problem. Hence, that is my dislike for a characterization of all butches that doesn't fit me.

Male ID Butchs... they are not just some *stero type* They are living breathing people who have the same right as anyone else to complain, say what makes them smile, what makes them happy, and what makes them cry...

If you read my words, you'll see I didn't characterize any IDs as a stereotype, only the behavior specified.

If you are sad about the first thread being started by butches being more of the masculine/male ID flavor.. then start one where it's not.... Don't make people feel bad about them selfs because they are different than you...

Again, you misread my words. I was sad that stereotypical male markers were employed in an attempt to define what butch is for all, which is impossible and unfair. I still believe that to be true. I wasn't trying to make anyone feel badly about themselves, nor do I believe that's even within my power to do.

I have no desire to begin any thread that would seek to divide butches into categories, which actually speaks to my original point.

Huggs.. and much love to the Mrs...

respectfully,
Beau