Difference between masculine and male identified?

[Jett]

I find it very interesting that what I hear consistently is that many (not saying all) butches don't feel the pressure/need to publicly identify as one or the other until entering (mainly online) B-F communities. The only advice I would give to someone who's suddenly finds themselves mulling the "ID's" to try and find a fit... is to look damn close as to who's expectations and definitions you're actually cleaving to and what made you feel like you need to.

Because at what point are we no longer breaking gender stereotypes when we define/label ourselves as XYZ ID'd butches, but rather bowing to the binary stereotype and kissing patriarchal ass-umptions and expectations of the sexes by obediently adhering to their perceived limits/restrictions in what female/male means.

I feel like in turn we're sometimes failing to stronghold the uniqueness, limitlessness and possibilities of just who we are already as butches without needing additional outside affirmation in that context.

Again, just random thoughts...
Metro

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I find it very interesting that what I hear consistently is that many (not saying all) butches don't feel the pressure/need to publicly identify as one or the other until entering (mainly online) B-F communities. The only advice I would give to someone who's suddenly finds themselves mulling the "ID's" to try and find a fit... is to look damn close as to who's expectations and definitions you're actually cleaving to and what made you feel like you need to.

Because at what point are we no longer breaking gender stereotypes when we define/label ourselves as XYZ ID'd butches, but rather bowing to the binary stereotype and kissing patriarchal ass-umptions and expectations of the sexes by obediently adhering to their perceived limits/restrictions in what female/male means.

I feel like in turn we're sometimes failing to stronghold the uniqueness, limitlessness and possibilities of just who we are already as butches without needing additional outside affirmation in that context.

Again, just random thoughts...
Metro

And random wisdom like this that speaks to so much of what I have experienced and I think, bowed to at times. Thoughts about why I have had such differing experiences within the B-F comminity than what I brought along with me as being someone with significant TG friends since the 1960's outside of it. You have hit on something, Metro that has often puzzled (and offended) me just as a human being. I hope this gets explored more in the thread.

[Luckydwg07]

its may just be a style for some and maybe a lucky break to find their niche if they feel comfortable.

no more outside affirmation.. the people you met know you as unique thats the intriguing part

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I find it very interesting that what I hear consistently is that many (not saying all) butches don't feel the pressure/need to publicly identify as one or the other until entering (mainly online) B-F communities. The only advice I would give to someone who's suddenly finds themselves mulling the "ID's" to try and find a fit... is to look damn close as to who's expectations and definitions you're actually cleaving to and what made you feel like you need to.

Because at what point are we no longer breaking gender stereotypes when we define/label ourselves as XYZ ID'd butches, but rather bowing to the binary stereotype and kissing patriarchal ass-umptions and expectations of the sexes by obediently adhering to their perceived limits/restrictions in what female/male means.

I feel like in turn we're sometimes failing to stronghold the uniqueness, limitlessness and possibilities of just who we are already as butches without needing additional outside affirmation in that context.

Again, just random thoughts...
Metro

[Corkey]

I think its great if you don't need any other qualifiers to your ID. Some of us however do, so that we have our place under the sun. It really is good for us to be able to discuss these issues in a safe environment. If the male aspect doesn't fit, don't use it. If it does, you are free to decide for yourself how it effects who you are.
I think because we get to choose for ourselves how we identify, information about gender identity is useful. I'm not giving any credence to "The Man" when I choose to use the male identifier. I'm a guy in a female body who isn't going to transition.
Simple, yes, one would think. How I choose to identify has no bearing on any one else, and frankly it isn't any one else's business how I choose to express that energy.
That's my .02 for the day.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Metropolis

I find it very interesting that what I hear consistently is that many (not saying all) butches don't feel the pressure/need to publicly identify as one or the other until entering (mainly online) B-F communities. The only advice I would give to someone who's suddenly finds themselves mulling the "ID's" to try and find a fit... is to look damn close as to who's expectations and definitions you're actually cleaving to and what made you feel like you need to.

Because at what point are we no longer breaking gender stereotypes when we define/label ourselves as XYZ ID'd butches, but rather bowing to the binary stereotype and kissing patriarchal ass-umptions and expectations of the sexes by obediently adhering to their perceived limits/restrictions in what female/male means.

I feel like in turn we're sometimes failing to stronghold the uniqueness, limitlessness and possibilities of just who we are already as butches without needing additional outside affirmation in that context.

Again, just random thoughts...
Metro

Sometimes I really appreciate your random thoughts. I agree that it is of fundamental importance to examine and break down the role that entering "online B-F communities" plays in self-identification. I did a lot of navel gazing on it myself (and my own navel) when I first got involved online back when Al Gore first invented the internets. I didn't pick my lane and quit then, either. I still continue to evaluate what my identity means to me, both online and in the "real world."

It's not a label for identification and nutritional information purposes. It speaks, instead, to the skin that I live in and how I can most be comfortable in that skin. It harkens back to my childhood, my development, and exactly how I live today. It is challenged by being a parent, a professional, a sibling, and offspring. Still, regardless of pronoun, I remain the same. How others see me usually has no impact on what I see in the mirror, but it took me a long time to recognize the face staring back at me. I say "usually" with intent, because I would be lying if I did not admit that there have been times aplenty that interactions with others has driven me to the mirror, or deep inside myself trying to see what they see, and to see past it again.

You give fantastic advice when you say, "look damn close as to who's expectations and definitions you're actually cleaving to and what made you feel like you need to." Because once we slap on that tag and step out into the world, online or otherwise a whole shit-ton of expectations and other sundry baggage is going to crop up. It certainly didn't occur to me years ago that my male identification was going to mean I would sometimes face accusations of male privilege and misogyny; that I was a creature of the patriarchy as sure as any cis-gendered man. I know myself otherwise, but have come to see - slowly, I admit - how much responsibility I have to ensure that others can see that as well. While they may operate out of assumption, I do feel the onus is on me to be more careful with my actions and words (and I obviously fail at times) to not reinforce those expectations, even if (especially if) unwittingly. In short, I need to be mindful and take care. I have to practice everyday, even when I am cranky, tired, or lazy.

This has potency for me, "the uniqueness, limitlessness and possibilities of just who we are already as butches" and I absolutely want to stronghold that.

[Luckydwg07]

Real simple I'll draw blood/fight for me & whoever wants to be themselves its simple.
I stand alone most of the time though n thats ok