Butches and Body Image - Let's Talk About It

[Okiebug61]

I'm 50
I'm chunky
I'm gray
I'm achy
I'm almost as wrinkled as a pug in areas.
And by fucking god I love who I am where I am and have no issues with my body.

[AlexHunter]

Bringing the discussion back into the toilet...

I have many experiences to share with regards to public restrooms.

I normally use the men's restroom. I feel like I belong there much more than I belong in the women's. I don't particularly feel like getting screamed at or slapped.

I didn't always use the men's restroom. When I got sick of knowing that using the women's restroom would become an event of ample magnitude, I decided to venture into the other.

The women's restroom smells like artificial flowers. The men's restroom smells like piss.

When I was eighteen, I walked out of the women's restroom. I inspired a man to walk in! Trolling, genderqueer style.

I had an argument once with a middle-aged woman who insisted I was in the wrong bathroom. I flashed her to shut her up.

I've been smacked a few times for being a "boy" or "a man" in the ladies' room.

I've been yelled at in fear and terror. I've had women shriek at me and ask, "What are you doing in here?! Get out!"

I've been called a predator.

I've heard women whisper things to each other at the sight of me.

I've gotten confused looks, but those were expected.

I was once told to dress more feminine after minding my own business because I scared some lady washing her hands. I was twenty. I told her to fuck off.

In the men's room, I get an occasional nod of the head like "hey man" at most.

I wonder... why do women feel the need to talk, look at themselves in the mirror, and worry about what others are doing in the bathroom? Really, do these people have two separate bathrooms at home - one for girls and one for boys? So what makes people so different out of the home? Why does using the bathroom need to be an adventure?

I was afraid to use the men's restroom because I was scared of being found out. I thought some big dude would kick my ass when he realized I was (biologically) female. That never happened. I started using the men's room out of frustration when I was twenty-one. Now, the only time I will use the ladies' room is if the men's is absolutely disgusting or completely occupied.

Recently, I went to IHOP with a few friends. We waited to be seated. I needed to pee. The one stall in the men's restroom was "out of order."

I really needed to pee, so I went into the ladies' room. It's ironic to feel like you're going to get assaulted, told off, or kicked out of the restroom that you "technically" belong in.

I braced myself and walked in. I pretended to have tunnel vision. As I was peeing, I realized a lady complained to management about me. Two managers walked inside. One asked the other, "Is there a man in here? Is it a man or a woman?" The other replied with, "I don't know, I haven't seen it."

When I walked out, one of the managers looked at me angrily and asked, "Sir! What are you doing in here?"

I said, "It's cool, I'm a woman."

She yelled at me for lying, so I pulled out my driver's license, pointed to the "F," and walked out.

[musicman]

I try not to use public restrooms, I make sure if I know I am going out, that I don't drink anything before leaving the house. If there are no washrooms where either sex can use I make sure that my partner comes with me. I make sure that as we step into the ladies room that my partner is talking to me. For me this lets the women in the washroom know 1. this person knows me 2. that I am in the right washroom.

I will NEVER walk into a ladies washroom without a female friend or my partner. Been there, done that and don't have the patience for the looks and snide remarks.

[Okiebug61]

Originally Posted by musicman

I try not to use public restrooms, I make sure if I know I am going out, that I don't drink anything before leaving the house. If there are no washrooms where either sex can use I make sure that my partner comes with me. I make sure that as we step into the ladies room that my partner is talking to me. For me this lets the women in the washroom know 1. this person knows me 2. that I am in the right washroom.

I will NEVER walk into a ladies washroom without a female friend or my partner. Been there, done that and don't have the patience for the looks and snide remarks.

I am so sorry you have to go through this. I thought Canada was much more accepting.

[boobookitty]

Originally Posted by AlexHunter

I wonder... why do women feel the need to talk, look at themselves in the mirror, and worry about what others are doing in the bathroom? Really, do these people have two separate bathrooms at home - one for girls and one for boys? So what makes people so different out of the home? Why does using the bathroom need to be an adventure?

just incase anyone really wants to know--

...why do women feel the need to talk, -- it helps them suss out their place in the pecking order. and who they might need to be afraid of.

...look at themselves in the mirror, -- females (the girly types) are trained to do this, their sense of self worth is tied to it.

...and worry about what others are doing in the bathroom? -- fear based, they worry if someone is a possible threat, they worry if someone else is sick (and possibly contagious )/ or might need help, they worry if a child is being treated correctly, they worry if their child is safe...

Really, do these people have two separate bathrooms at home - one for girls and one for boys?

...most likely not, but home is way safer...

So what makes people so different out of the home?
...fear

Why does using the bathroom need to be an adventure?
...all of the above,

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by AlexHunter

Bringing the discussion back into the toilet...

I wonder... why do women feel the need to talk, look at themselves in the mirror, and worry about what others are doing in the bathroom? Really, do these people have two separate bathrooms at home - one for girls and one for boys? So what makes people so different out of the home? Why does using the bathroom need to be an adventure?

.

Alex, because I'm not butch I can't know what you go through, but you can't know what I go through either. Why do we worry about what others are doing in the bathroom? Because it's a place where we're in a vulnerable position with our pants down. Because if a man does deliberatly come into the women's room, he probably does have nefarious intent. Have women been assaulted by men in the bathroom? You bet. It once happened to a woman at one of my jobsites, and there was another recent case here in NYC. That one was particularly violent. I personally witnessed a young man stalk into the women's locker room so he could physically assault a woman he knew. Yes, the men really were predators.

Not looking hard enough to really see you is inexcusable. Harrassing and intimidating you out of the bathroom where you should belong is inexcusable. Women worrying about their person safety in the bathroom? I'll stop worrying when men stop assaulting women.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by AlexHunter

I wonder... why do women feel the need to talk, look at themselves in the mirror, and worry about what others are doing in the bathroom? Really, do these people have two separate bathrooms at home - one for girls and one for boys? So what makes people so different out of the home? Why does using the bathroom need to be an adventure?

I braced myself and walked in. I pretended to have tunnel vision. As I was peeing, I realized a lady complained to management about me. Two managers walked inside. One asked the other, "Is there a man in here? Is it a man or a woman?" The other replied with, "I don't know, I haven't seen it."

It??? Fucking IT???

People suck to the nth degree.

Originally Posted by boobookitty

just incase anyone really wants to know--

...why do women feel the need to talk, -- it helps them suss out their place in the pecking order. and who they might need to be afraid of.

...look at themselves in the mirror, -- females (the girly types) are trained to do this, their sense of self worth is tied to it.

...and worry about what others are doing in the bathroom? -- fear based, they worry if someone is a possible threat, they worry if someone else is sick (and possibly contagious )/ or might need help, they worry if a child is being treated correctly, they worry if their child is safe...

Really, do these people have two separate bathrooms at home - one for girls and one for boys?

...most likely not, but home is way safer...

So what makes people so different out of the home?
...fear

Why does using the bathroom need to be an adventure?
...all of the above,

Actually, I look in the mirror more to make sure I don't have a bat in the cave or spinach in my teeth more than anything. I don't care how smart or how pretty someone is, if they have one of the following, I'm going to have to try hard not to laugh. Because I have a 12 boy inside me that tends to laugh at that stuff.

I will assess the space when I initially walk in and before I leave for safety's sake. If my Spidey sense goes off, I leave. Immediately.

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Alex, because I'm not butch I can't know what you go through, but you can't know what I go through either. Why do we worry about what others are doing in the bathroom? Because it's a place where we're in a vulnerable position with our pants down. Because if a man does deliberatly come into the women's room, he probably does have nefarious intent. Have women been assaulted by men in the bathroom? You bet. It once happened to a woman at one of my jobsites, and there was another recent case here in NYC. That one was particularly violent. I personally witnessed a young man stalk into the women's locker room so he could physically assault a woman he knew. Yes, the men really were predators.

Not looking hard enough to really see you is inexcusable. Harrassing and intimidating you out of the bathroom where you should belong is inexcusable. Women worrying about their person safety in the bathroom? I'll stop worrying when men stop assaulting women.

Bathrooms are like traps. Enclosed. One exit. Not much room to maneuver should a fight occur. Safety's definitely a concern.

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Alex, because I'm not butch I can't know what you go through, but you can't know what I go through either. Why do we worry about what others are doing in the bathroom? Because it's a place where we're in a vulnerable position with our pants down. Because if a man does deliberatly come into the women's room, he probably does have nefarious intent. Have women been assaulted by men in the bathroom? You bet. It once happened to a woman at one of my jobsites, and there was another recent case here in NYC. That one was particularly violent. I personally witnessed a young man stalk into the women's locker room so he could physically assault a woman he knew. Yes, the men really were predators.

Not looking hard enough to really see you is inexcusable. Harrassing and intimidating you out of the bathroom where you should belong is inexcusable. Women worrying about their person safety in the bathroom? I'll stop worrying when men stop assaulting women.

Yes! Exactly, Cheryl!

I am uber laxidazical at home and really don't ever double check things, but when I enter a public restroom ALL senses are on over-drive. I scan the floor and make a mental note of how many pairs of feet I see. I look in the mirror so I can get a better view of each stall, which doors are closed, etc. When I was around 10 there was a series of rapes happening at a local Denny's Restaurant. The victims were all young girls my age and Denny's was a restaurant my family frequented regularly since it was affordable for a large family such as ours. I remember being so scared that if I had to pee I would hold it until we got home. Then when we first moved to Tucson a man was stalking women at our local community college. He would hide in the restroom, standing on the toilet tank, and when there was only one woman there he would attack. He was finally caught but it really shook up our community.

On another note, since I have only ever been partnered with very butch women, I always accompany them to the restroom when we are out in public. From my personal experience, a smile, direct eye contact, and a hearty, "you doing ok?" defuses the situation almost immediately. And if you ever need a femme friend to accompany you, just grab me and off we'll go. Just last week at Target a gender ambiguous person was standing outside of the ladies bathroom looking absolutely terrified. As I approached to go in I smiled and asked my usual, "how are you doing?" and she smiled and said "I guess I'm ok." I asked if she wanted to walk in before me and she looked SO relieved and said yes.

So, as frustrated as I am for you guys, please know that for me it is about my personal safety. I am very trusting of just about everyone but I will admit that bio men have to work a little bit harder to earn that trust.