BASEBALL!

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Pathetic rabid fan devotion? We differ there. It is not pathetic nor rabid to me. It is part of being a fan, in good times and in bad, when they do well and when they suck the big one.

If you only support a team that is doing well, are you a fan of the team or a fan of winning?

This is why I noted specifically a difference between a team that loses and a team that does not try. I'm blessed in my life to have seen a team that I love win the World Series and am aware of fans that cannot (most notably my neighbors to the north who have suffered through 100 years of dismal heartache.) I am also aware that this, for White Sox fans, may never happen again (during my lifetime). I've sat through games where it was literally sleeting and others so hot and the air still it was nearly unbearable and they LOST. That does not stop me from coming back.

What WOULD stop me is if I saw a bunch of guys on the field that didn't give a crap because win or lose they are still getting a paycheck, and/or an ownership or team management that did not care about the players or the fans. Ozzie was headed in this direction with the team and we are blessed to be rid of him.

Chicago experianced this firsthand during the 1919 Black Sox scandal. Charlie Comiskey was for underpaying his players for years. At that time, players either had to take the salary they were offered, or couldn't play in the majors. They were property of their original team, and no other team was allowed to sign them. He cheated them out of their bonuses and pay that they were due so they said the hell with it. (I am of the firm belief that neither Shoeless Joe Jackson or Buck Weaver had a part in this thing but were convicted nonetheless)

What I mean by pathetic and rabid is the fan that allows the team to take their money, treat them like shit, and keeps coming back. To quote the 2005 film Fever Pitch;

"You love the Red Sox, but have they ever loved you back?"

If the answer is no it's time to consider a break-up

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

This is why I noted specifically a difference between a team that loses and a team that does not try. I'm blessed in my life to have seen a team that I love win the World Series and am aware of fans that cannot (most notably my neighbors to the north who have suffered through 100 years of dismal heartache.) I am also aware that this, for White Sox fans, may never happen again (during my lifetime). I've sat through games where it was literally sleeting and others so hot and the air still it was nearly unbearable and they LOST. That does not stop me from coming back.

What WOULD stop me is if I saw a bunch of guys on the field that didn't give a crap because win or lose they are still getting a paycheck, and/or an ownership or team management that did not care about the players or the fans. Ozzie was headed in this direction with the team and we are blessed to be rid of him.

Chicago experianced this firsthand during the 1919 Black Sox scandal. Charlie Comiskey was for underpaying his players for years. At that time, players either had to take the salary they were offered, or couldn't play in the majors. They were property of their original team, and no other team was allowed to sign them. He cheated them out of their bonuses and pay that they were due so they said the hell with it. (I am of the firm belief that neither Shoeless Joe Jackson or Buck Weaver had a part in this thing but were convicted nonetheless)

What I mean by pathetic and rabid is the fan that allows the team to take their money, treat them like shit, and keeps coming back. To quote the 2005 film Fever Pitch;

"You love the Red Sox, but have they ever loved you back?"

If the answer is no it's time to consider a break-up

Ahh ok. Am following your train of thought now.

One of the fun things about being a Red Sox fan, is the fans have no qualms about letting players know they are dissatisfied with their attitude and play. Josh Beckett got a taste of this last night. He hasnt pitched because of a strained arm ligament but he was found to be out golfing shortly after this injury. The media got wind of it. The fans booed him when he took the mound last night. Booed him even louder when he pitched horribly. And they will do it again.

IMO, we do have a primadonna problem which no one quite seems to know how to resolve. I am hoping someone will have the gonads to shake things up, make trades even if it means eating peoples salaries, shrink a few heads down to size, and get folks back on track. Until then, fans will be sure to register their disappointment in ways that work for them.

BTW, always hated that line from Fever Pitch LOL. Love is how you define it when it comes to sports and most other things. The Red Sox gave me a World Series while I was still young enough to enjoy and appreciate it. And, I got a cool hat out of the deal. And I have a collection of vintage autographed photos - a '67 Yaz is my favorite but I followed the late Ken Brett all over baseball and he obliged me with every new team he joined. And a collection of yearbooks going back to the 60's. I got to see, in person, the likes of Thurman Munson, Frank and Brooks Robinson, Dave Winfield, Carlton Fisk, Jim Palmer, Dave McNally, Alan Trammel, Denny McClain, George Brett, Johnny Bench, etc. They gave me memories that I simply treasure. That, to me, is the love the Red Sox gave back to me.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Kobi

BTW, always hated that line from Fever Pitch LOL. Love is how you define it when it comes to sports and most other things. The Red Sox gave me a World Series while I was still young enough to enjoy and appreciate it. And, I got a cool hat out of the deal. And I have a collection of vintage autographed photos - a '67 Yaz is my favorite but I followed the late Ken Brett all over baseball and he obliged me with every new team he joined. And a collection of yearbooks going back to the 60's. I got to see, in person, the likes of Thurman Munson, Frank and Brooks Robinson, Dave Winfield, Carlton Fisk, Jim Palmer, Dave McNally, Alan Trammel, Denny McClain, George Brett, Johnny Bench, etc. They gave me memories that I simply treasure. That, to me, is the love the Red Sox gave back to me.

Fever Pitch was cute. (I have a long-standing crush on Drew Berrymore). I agree, I got to see a lot of the guys you mentioned. My favorite all time player is Roger Maris by virture of his integrity more so than his play. I'd love to see more than his bat in the hall of fame. I am also partial to Cal Ripkin Jr and several others that have won me over with work ethic and a true love of the game. Bucky Dent was my favorite as a kid. Then I see guys like Roger Clemens and want to take up LaCross or something.

Do the White Sox love me? Comiskey Park is the only place in the world that I can go and my troubles cannot follow me. As I walk up the ramp and see the first hint of green on fresh cut grass, hear bats cracking and gloves thudding, smell summer and hot dogs and cotton candy, and tear up to the first stains of the national anthem I have no doubt in my mind that yes, the White Sox love me.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

Fever Pitch was cute. (I have a long-standing crush on Drew Berrymore). I agree, I got to see a lot of the guys you mentioned. My favorite all time player is Roger Maris by virture of his integrity more so than his play. I'd love to see more than his bat in the hall of fame. I am also partial to Cal Ripkin Jr and several others that have won me over with work ethic and a true love of the game. Bucky Dent was my favorite as a kid. Then I see guys like Roger Clemens and want to take up LaCross or something.

Do the White Sox love me? Comiskey Park is the only place in the world that I can go and my troubles cannot follow me. As I walk up the ramp and see the first hint of green on fresh cut grass, hear bats cracking and gloves thudding, smell summer and hot dogs and cotton candy, and tear up to the first stains of the national anthem I have no doubt in my mind that yes, the White Sox love me.

Gotta love that Sox love. Now if we could just throw in a few more wins.....

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Gotta love that Sox love. Now if we could just throw in a few more wins.....

Well if we can't clean house on Kansas City I don't know what to say. Looks like you guys a pushing Cleveland around some this evening. Thanks!

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Wolfsong

Well if we can't clean house on Kansas City I don't know what to say. Looks like you guys a pushing Cleveland around some this evening. Thanks!

Hope your Sox have better luck with KC than my Sox did. I mean really, losing 2 of 3 to KC? It was so sad.

Yeah, my guys do good pushing people around early. It's the later innings we seem to lose focus, drop fly balls, forgot how many outs there are, and other mental errors.

Cleveland will push us around some more - getting back at us for stealing Victor Martinez.

[Wolfsong]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Hope your Sox have better luck with KC than my Sox did. I mean really, losing 2 of 3 to KC? It was so sad.

Yeah, my guys do good pushing people around early. It's the later innings we seem to lose focus, drop fly balls, forgot how many outs there are, and other mental errors.

Cleveland will push us around some more - getting back at us for stealing Victor Martinez.

Well looks we both have reason to be happy this evening. Good job on the win. It's always better when it isn't a sweep. Detroit and Cleveland lost while the WS picked up a 1/2 game. Good deal