Are butches really a dying breed?

[Breezy]

Originally Posted by KerrieH

My definition of old school: when a butch/guy/trans treats the ladies with respect. They open the doors for them. They bring flowers (first date, first meet, and anything in between). A person would NEVER even think about doing anything with a friend or acquaintance's person (whethet they be together or they know their friend likes them).

I am 28 years old and most of the people that I have been around (other than members of the planet) do not even attempt to open the door for
Their partners. They dont bring flowers.

IMO these are some characteristics of an OSOF butch. These are characteristics that I am PROUD to have.

Precisely, Kerrie. You keep up the good work. She's coming to you. The one you both deserve.

[tara_kerrie]

Originally Posted by Breezy

Precisely, Kerrie. You keep up the good work. She's coming to you. The one you both deserve.

Thank You Breezy. I will keep up the good work. Surely there is someone out there who will appreciate those things about me!

[LaneyDoll]

I am wondering about this...

Could it be that butches and femmes are not so much a dying breed as it is that the entire community is evolving? Today, we have more people identifying as genderfluid/genderqueer/androgynous than we did in the past.

So maybe it is not that breeds are dying as much as they are becoming more specialized?

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Breezy

Where are the femmes who can accept us as we are and not insist we follow a particular "rule book" simply because we are butch...

...For pity's sake, we are all human but to hold such rigid ideas about what is acceptable is just too much. Who are the butch police and can we get them fired?

When I finally ascend my rightful throne as Queen Of The World, PINK slips will be sent to all the self appointed butch police at dawn, before breakfast.

[Luckydwg07]

I don't believe we've been pinned down yet....I don't think we should. All these terms & styles of butchres will always BE. I can say (now that I have some years to my life) that I have evolved in their minds with more than one terms but I always have been the butch I see today.
Does this make sense? I hope so because I started as a kid being labled atomboy/farm hand then a sporty butch in h.s. then in the mid 80's androgynous when hitting the limelight in nyc & now butch as a mature person. However people r still curious because they sometimes aren't sure how to see me.
I am all of the above and still me.
I just think sometimes names become popular & fashionable for a time & then repeat as time passes as well....we create & as Corkey said keep evolving.
I am too
Thanx for the thread

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by LaneyDoll

I am wondering about this...

Could it be that butches and femmes are not so much a dying breed as it is that the entire community is evolving? Today, we have more people identifying as genderfluid/genderqueer/androgynous than we did in the past.

So maybe it is not that breeds are dying as much as they are becoming more specialized?

I think what you are saying here makes a lot of sense and personally, even as a butch in my 60's, feel this is positive. I have always felt that my being a butch is centered in gender fluidity and that one does not have to be trans or inter-gendered to reap the benefits of a more open way to experience gender as it is evolving today.

We are a sub-set within the glorious range of gender identity that is evolving today. In the future, I hope that statements like butches being a "dying breed" finds its way out of our conversations. Always feels like a "vs." statement that has caused pain between all of us and impeded our ability to communicate.

When I first saw the title to this thread, I have to admit, I thought about how it might be viewed as anti-trans to some members. Although, posts are from a various members with differing gender identifications- kewl!

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by AtLast

I think what you are saying here makes a lot of sense and personally, even as a butch in my 60's, feel this is positive. I have always felt that my being a butch is centered in gender fluidity and that one does not have to be trans or inter-gendered to reap the benefits of a more open way to experience gender as it is evolving today.

We are a sub-set within the glorious range of gender identity that is evolving today. In the future, I hope that statements like butches being a "dying breed" finds its way out of our conversations. Always feels like a "vs." statement that has caused pain between all of us and impeded our ability to communicate.

When I first saw the title to this thread, I have to admit, I thought about how it might be viewed as anti-trans to some members. Although, posts are from a various members with differing gender identifications- kewl!

I am glad you read it as positive because I mean it that way. I am in a lucky position. My involvement in the BDSM lifestyle allows me to meet a variety of people. I have a lot of friends who identify as queer/genderqueer/genderfluid/andro. And they are ALL in their 20s. So, to me, it seems to be that the younger generations are identifying in ways outside of "butch/femme."

[Apocalipstic]

I like to think of it like I think of radio.

Radio used to be just top 40, now stations are quite specialized.

[Mr Nice Guy]

Still here, still Butch and happy being so.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice Guy

Still here, still Butch and happy being so.

I remain butch (and lesbian) and always will and also frame butch in terms of a range of gender that has evolved. There are many folks that ID as transmasculine butches. I don't, but see where this fits as remaining within butch identification.

LOL, sometimes I think that being from originally and living in a region (SF Bay Area) that just has multi-population of queer folks including multi-sexualities might have influenced me in terms of seeing butch as simply one cog in a varied wheel.

[FemmeAllae]

Originally Posted by Just_G

I do believe that is myth...and I think it's a geographical thing. I have said for years that there are really no femmes where I live. Plenty of butches. Perhaps we need a resurging of the femmes in my town!! I sure wouldn't mind!

I think people say that because they want a certain type of butch or femme and when they can't find one they say there are none left. So not true.

Plenty of butches, you say?! Where do you live?!

[chefhmboyrd]

i never really identified as A Butch, i was just always masculine and butchy
i didn't participate in the BF community until after i began to transition.

i will have to agree with the evolving theories.
there are so many different labels and ways to identify, masculine, feminine, stone, androgynous, gender-queer, intersexed, cis-gendered, trans, assexual.....
so many under the LrgBLT umbrella


it can be confusing because what one person considers butch or femme may be slightly different from someone else's perspective. there are even some who swing both ways depending on who they are with......

fluidity......

[Apocalipstic]

I think if anything the Internets have made it easier to find/meet Butches.
Before Internet you almost had to wait for Butches to show up on your porch or work with a relative.

[alexri]

I don't think butches are a dying breed... but what I do notice is...
1) how many people put in their dating profiles online that they are a femme who only wants a femme or a sporty femme
2) how many butches do not self-identify as butch because they feel like they will be boxed into a role... they seem to feel like they have more freedom if they identify as andro.

I definitely feel outnumbered as a butch where I am. It seems there are an overwhelming number of butches, and a large number of femmes who are not interested in butches.

[shiagirl]

Not in my world they are not a dying breed.

[JistMe]

There aren't many in my neck of the woods. I stick out like a sore thumb. Sometimes I feel like a crow at a beach full of seagulls. That's why I like this site. Keeps me from feeling like I'm floating away.

[Bleu]

Originally Posted by shiagirl

Not in my world they are not a dying breed.

Amen, sister.
~Bleu

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by alexri

I don't think butches are a dying breed... but what I do notice is...
1) how many people put in their dating profiles online that they are a femme who only wants a femme or a sporty femme
2) how many butches do not self-identify as butch because they feel like they will be boxed into a role... they seem to feel like they have more freedom if they identify as andro.

I definitely feel outnumbered as a butch where I am. It seems there are an overwhelming number of butches, and a large number of femmes who are not interested in butches.

First off, welcome to the site!

Secondly, I have a thought about your #2 statement. If the people you are talking about don't define as butch to begin with, then why do you say that they are "butches" that define as "andro"?

Also, what do you mean by "more freedom"? I am not trying to debate your statements at all, I am just curious about your thinking on this.

[alexri]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

First off, welcome to the site!

Secondly, I have a thought about your #2 statement. If the people you are talking about don't define as butch to begin with, then why do you say that they are "butches" that define as "andro"?

Also, what do you mean by "more freedom"? I am not trying to debate your statements at all, I am just curious about your thinking on this.

Thanks for the welcome! Most nights I post after a long day at work so I hope what I write makes sense.

What I mean is that I see more people automatically assuming that butch/fem = hetero male/female... that then the butch can't possibly be a switch or a sub sometimes.. that the butch is expected to take on all the stereotypical expectations of a straight male in a relationship... and that they call themselves andro instead so they have the freedom to not be assumed to be "the guy" 100 percent of the time. Does this make sense?

[Martina]

I don't think those folks are giving the butch-femme community the credit we deserve, but yes, it makes some sense.

I think a lot of younger folks think that butch-femme is very gender conformist and heteronormative. We do see some of that on this site. It used to be rampant on the other site. (I know there are more sites out there, but I can't keep up. I am old. I am referring to the dash site.)

Anyway, yes, a lot of people do think that if they ID as butch or femme, they will be expected to behave in specific ways and might be criticized if they don't. It has happened, as we all know. Not an irrational fear.