The Fat Positive Lounge

[Canela]

Originally Posted by Spirit Dancer

From my space, I do believe there's a stigmata placed by "some" people that FAT equates LOW self esteem. Which in turn could lead those to perceive Fat women are easy targets.

Here's the thing not every woman fits into one mold we all come in different shapes and sizes, and no matter what there can be a self esteem issues. Which in itself can make any women an easy target, when I was younger there was a self esteem issue and once again several years ago I allowed someone to create that icky feeling of FAT=low self esteem, but now when I look back and get that icky feeling I slap Queens of comedy into the DVD hit the FF>>>>button to Sommore and i'm reminded that women of all shapes
and sizes are beautiful.

Somebody done messed up and let me get to know these big beautiful women from the Queens of Comedy years ago...and in that came another huge confidence boost.

Now I like that "kshuh kshuh" from the hoola hoop...I saw this a long time ago...and I took it in and honey I ain't never been the same since....

Mo'nique has the right idea when she said, "honey, I am big beautiful and loving it".

That's me...I don't need to be a size 4 to feel sexy and beautiful...trust me, at this size 18 I can still rock that...and him. I choose to be who I am because it suits me....I like that I am not embarrassed anymore because I am still beautiful and smart and sexy as heck...does my weight really make me less than? Uh, no...that just doesn't compute.

Come on now...plus size doesn't mean less honey, it means more. More of everything...more love, more woman, more confidence, more heart, more mind, more compassion, more kindness, more caring, more, more, more...we've learned the hard lessons of reality and turned them inside out to grow ourselves in the strength and overcomer's department.

Life hasn't been easy, but we have learned from it, especially the discrimination of being a BBW. Not one of the exes I have ever had after I gained my weight ever, ever, ever had a problem with my size...once when I asked one former lover I was almost yelled at (he was offended as if I did something wrong)...he said", babygirl, have I ever made you feel anything less than beautiful, sexy and loved?" I had to admit that no, he had not.

So ladies, take it like you like it, but I took my ex's words and never looked back.
He thought I was hot and sexy...
I thought I was hot and sexy....
I know I am a good woman and there is a good butch/TG/Ftm man out there that will love us just as we are.
If not--it's their loss.

I had a very sweet man tell me just recently, "I see you. You're beauty goes much deeper than what's on the surface. You're pretty from the inside out. This is unique. I can't help but notice."

I love being me. I am a B.B.T.W. (Big Beautiful Texican Woman) and I don't make excuses for it. Love me or don't. I'm not the one missing out!

Receive that for yourselves my sisters and never let anyone tell you who or what you are. You're beautiful.

[Canela]

Phenomenal Woman

Pretty women wonder where my secret lies.
I'm not cute or built to suit a fashion model's size
But when I start to tell them,
They think I'm telling lies.
I say,
It's in the reach of my arms
The span of my hips,
The stride of my step,
The curl of my lips.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

I walk into a room
Just as cool as you please,
And to a man,
The fellows stand or
Fall down on their knees.
Then they swarm around me,
A hive of honey bees.
I say,
It's the fire in my eyes,
And the flash of my teeth,
The swing in my waist,
And the joy in my feet.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Men themselves have wondered
What they see in me.
They try so much
But they can't touch
My inner mystery.
When I try to show them
They say they still can't see.
I say,
It's in the arch of my back,
The sun of my smile,
The ride of my breasts,
The grace of my style.
I'm a woman

Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Now you understand
Just why my head's not bowed.
I don't shout or jump about
Or have to talk real loud.
When you see me passing
It ought to make you proud.
I say,
It's in the click of my heels,
The bend of my hair,
the palm of my hand,
The need of my care,
'Cause I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.

Maya Angelou

[Canela]

One of my friends shared this with me & I LOVE it:

When you’re a plus size woman, people like to say “yeah, she’s cute in the face”, as if being full figured is such a disgrace.


Honey, I’m cute in the face, and I’m thick in the waist.
I look good whether I’m in cotton, leather, or lace.
I’m beautiful, vibrant and above all, smart!
And there’s more to me than my weight, I also have a heart.
Yes my clothes maybe a bigger size,
That just means you have access to a bigger prize.
We are not self-conscious about our weight,
And we never have a problem getting a date.
So don’t think your small frame gives you more pull,
I’m a hot, sexy, curvy woman with a figure that’s full!

***

All women can't be a size zero
Not even on a high profile Fashion Show.
Ladies can be a small or big size
& Still look pleasing to the eyes
Can I hear an "Amen" Guys, you should know.

[Canela]

SELF-PORTRAIT II

Questing, a woman dares to reinvent herself.

—Dana Heller, The Feminization of Quest Romance

No more teacher clothes.
I want chamois shirts
and shorts with pockets I’ll need
for a trek in the Himalayas.
I want a tutu and overalls for my
new career as a ballerina electrician,
a carpenter’s apron and power tools
so I can work on Habitat for Humanity
and build my writing studio.

No more timidity, no cringing.
I can say “no” with grace
and my opinion about anything.
I don’t need your approval
and I won’t shrivel when you yell
or weep. I have limits, you know.
I will learn to climb sheer rocks,
fly a helicopter, handle bees
and embrace every dragon I meet.

[Canela]

WHAT SHE WANTS

Inside
is the little girl
from not that long ago.



What does she want?
She wants what she always wanted:
to be taken seriously.



Outside there’s a woman round
as an over-ripe plum. People point,
their voices cruel, jesting.



What does she want?
What she’s always wanted:
to be taken seriously.



CB FOLLETT

[Kätzchen]

re: the proposition that possibly individuals who present fat are percieved as being less than they are and thus, seen as having less than desireable self esteem, etc.

I think the better way to address things of this nature is to call out that particular thinking process and let the owner of that particular perception bear the full weight of their own biases. Why do I advocate that position? I think it is necessary to challenge biases of this nature and let the owner who dares to propel that kind of ideology do the work it takes to dial back their own biases, so that particular social narrative is called to a halt.

It's important to not cave into false construction of ideas that places the burden on the person being victimized for their own beauty and, who no doubt, deserves positive strokes about who they are and not what people think they look like or thought of as having less than desireable self esteem, etc.

I say call it out. Put a stop to it. Don't cave into social processes that do nothing positive for the person who is beautiful in their own right.

[Spirit Dancer]

[Leigh]

Originally Posted by Canela

Somebody done messed up and let me get to know these big beautiful women from the Queens of Comedy years ago...and in that came another huge confidence boost.

Now I like that "kshuh kshuh" from the hoola hoop...I saw this a long time ago...and I took it in and honey I ain't never been the same since....

Mo'nique has the right idea when she said, "honey, I am big beautiful and loving it".

That's me...I don't need to be a size 4 to feel sexy and beautiful...trust me, at this size 18 I can still rock that...and him. I choose to be who I am because it suits me....I like that I am not embarrassed anymore because I am still beautiful and smart and sexy as heck...does my weight really make me less than? Uh, no...that just doesn't compute.

Come on now...plus size doesn't mean less honey, it means more. More of everything...more love, more woman, more confidence, more heart, more mind, more compassion, more kindness, more caring, more, more, more...we've learned the hard lessons of reality and turned them inside out to grow ourselves in the strength and overcomer's department.

Life hasn't been easy, but we have learned from it, especially the discrimination of being a BBW. Not one of the exes I have ever had after I gained my weight ever, ever, ever had a problem with my size...once when I asked one former lover I was almost yelled at (he was offended as if I did something wrong)...he said", babygirl, have I ever made you feel anything less than beautiful, sexy and loved?" I had to admit that no, he had not.

So ladies, take it like you like it, but I took my ex's words and never looked back.
He thought I was hot and sexy...
I thought I was hot and sexy....
I know I am a good woman and there is a good butch/TG/Ftm man out there that will love us just as we are.
If not--it's their loss.

I had a very sweet man tell me just recently, "I see you. You're beauty goes much deeper than what's on the surface. You're pretty from the inside out. This is unique. I can't help but notice."

I love being me. I am a B.B.T.W. (Big Beautiful Texican Woman) and I don't make excuses for it. Love me or don't. I'm not the one missing out!

Receive that for yourselves my sisters and never let anyone tell you who or what you are. You're beautiful.

WOW, now THIS is exactly what I needed to hear today ~ thank you thank you thank you for posting this

[Spirit Dancer]

[Spirit Dancer]

She is right on target with her opinion.

[lettertodaddy]

Originally Posted by Tcountry

So is it the "slutty" perception or the lower self-esteem that makes her an "easy target"?

I think this is a large part of it. I think another big part of it is that a fat woman should be happy to get any sexual attention, even negative sexual attention. I can't tell you how many times guys have tried to chat me up only to have them call me a "fat ugly bitch" in the next breath when I turn them down. I'm happy no women have ever done this to my knowledge.

[SingularNYCFemme]

Originally Posted by lettertodaddy

I think this is a large part of it. I think another big part of it is that a fat woman should be happy to get any sexual attention, even negative sexual attention. I can't tell you how many times guys have tried to chat me up only to have them call me a "fat ugly bitch" in the next breath when I turn them down. I'm happy no women have ever done this to my knowledge.

I don't believe I've ever encountered a woman with this point of view; if some have, they haven't indicated it in their behavior toward me. I could go on for a bit on this topic, but I'm sleepy and up past my bedtime. I'm glad we're here to support our fabulous sexy selves.

[Spirit Dancer]

“In the Middle Ages, they had guillotines, stretch racks, whips and chains.
Nowadays, we have a much more effective torture device called the bathroom scale.”
- Stephen Phillips

[Spirit Dancer]

“If I had been around when Rubens was painting,
I would have been revered as a fabulous model.”
- Dawn French

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

re: the proposition that possibly individuals who present fat are percieved as being less than they are and thus, seen as having less than desireable self esteem, etc.

I think the better way to address things of this nature is to call out that particular thinking process and let the owner of that particular perception bear the full weight of their own biases. Why do I advocate that position? I think it is necessary to challenge biases of this nature and let the owner who dares to propel that kind of ideology do the work it takes to dial back their own biases, so that particular social narrative is called to a halt.

It's important to not cave into false construction of ideas that places the burden on the person being victimized for their own beauty and, who no doubt, deserves positive strokes about who they are and not what people think they look like or thought of as having less than desireable self esteem, etc.

I say call it out. Put a stop to it. Don't cave into social processes that do nothing positive for the person who is beautiful in their own right.

I want to expand my rationale on personal accountability where it concerns calling out biases that carefully walk the line between being just a bias then as it spirals into prejudicial actions which are used to build credibility into a claim based in the opposite, counter-claim, that hopes to justify a bias - no matter where it resides on the scale of behaviors used to make the claim appear credible and/or legitimate.

I will use Spirit Dancer's latest post to illustrate the underlying logic I see in the premise set by the author of the quote: Dawn French.

French's quote provides a common context known to most people in that Renaissance art has been a place where we find female bodied models who are beautiful in thier own right and 'revered as a fabulous model' of beauty. Then, French goes on to justify her claim based on a counter-cultural issue of not being Fat (Skinny Culture) by suggesting that a reknown model in our own present culture (Kate Moss) would be 'used as a paintbrush' to make another wrong right.

I appreciate how it is that one might feel drawn to make comparisons like that. But I can't get fully behind it. Why? I have to call it out for what I see transpiring within the framed context of logic that is utilized. For, it's not okay that an opposite culture is used to oppress or suppress the real claim at stake in this particular meme. People who are skinny or their body size and range of weight is staged more toward a normed latitude are just as valuable in our society as people whose range of size or weight is found on another spectrum of the latitude - those of us who are bigger or larger or whatever descriptor that one wants to adopt as their own personal descriptor.

Let's take me (for example): I think of myself as a tank. My own identity is charged positively in that while it's not necessarily a true marker of my physical shape, what is truer is the proverbial connotation of what the term "Tank" means: I adopt Tank as an armor that aids me in repelling social stereotypes (isms) which carry a negatively charged connotation. I'm not as big as I was six months ago, but I am still a fairly big woman - because my bone density and physical makeup will only allow me to look as lean as only my body will allow. I don't think I will ever weigh less than 200, but if I ever weigh 190, will have a big party!

What I am trying to say is that to me, it's not okay to use a counter-proposition that oppresses another type of culture or identity to justify the negatively charged messages about ourselves in the world of using language as thoughtfully and carefully as one can. Sometimes I surface process, but mostly I process at a level in cognition that requires time to process and take in all the items present that I see in the environment. Those items might look like: physical cues, non-physical cues, tangible textual cues (re: the quote by French), and if we're in a face-to-face situation then no doubt other signifiers come into play. For example, speech processes, cultural cues found present in the way a person dresses or proximity (distance) between members who are sharing a channel of communication with each other.

It takes a deeper commitment in the process of calling out social stereotypes pertaining to size culture (Fat) than using a surface process to justify the hurtful messages we are bombarded with on a daily basis. I want to say that in developing this post, my intention is to not make my friend SD feel badly for the comparison she felt led to make in support of those who are larger in size as opposed to those who are less our size. I only do this with a loving heart and remaining true to my own level of social and personal accountability in illustrating a principle that I feel is important in providing a feasible remedy for combating biased, prejudicial aspects we face on a daily basis.

Maybe one way to reframe the message conveyed in French's quote could go something like this:

I'm glad Reuben Art mirrors my beauty and that Kate Moss can enjoy my beauty too: We paint a beautiful world together!

So, hopefully what I submit today is met with a willingness to carefully inspect flagged messages in our daily lives and make a commitment to counter biased and prejudicial acts of communication by reframing what we let ourselves hear, read or what we allow ourselves to think. I think the remedy begins with ourselves and my own challenge on a daily basis is to treat myself with loving kindness and dwell only upon thoughts which uplift me and those around me.

[SingularNYCFemme]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

So, hopefully what I submit today is met with a willingness to carefully inspect flagged messages in our daily lives and make a commitment to counter biased and prejudicial acts of communication by reframing what we let ourselves hear, read or what we allow ourselves to think. I think the remedy begins with ourselves and my own challenge on a daily basis is to treat myself with loving kindness and dwell only upon thoughts which uplift me and those around me.

I appreciate your entire carefully written and thought through post, Kätzchen; thank you very much for everything you wrote there. Actually, I've cut out my favorite part, which had to do with Rubenesque women and sharing our enjoyment of them with Ms. Moss! But it is your final, succinct, deeply caring paragraph I am quoting because it really sums up everything you have written so well. It really is best for us, having known and felt (oh bother with past tense, I deal with this on the bus every day) our fellow humans' responses to our being outside their imposed norm, not to engage in the same negative and derisive treatment of any fellow human. My largesse is only one way in which I am outside of today's social norms; and I need to learn how to live the best life I can live with the various ways in which I veer off. I will do so better, perhaps best, if I do so with as much acceptance of other ways people are than, certainly, if I turn around and exclude others as I have found myself excluded, or deride others as I have found myself derided.

Now I've prattled on long enough, all basically to say thank you for such rich food ... for thought!

[Soft*Silver]

I hear women telling me what they cant wear...

I cant expose my arms, they are too big

I cant wear belts, my stumach is too large

I cant wear pants, my ass is too big

I cant wear sexy nighties because I am round

I cant wear shorts my legs are too fat

I cant wear heels because people will laugh

I cant wear sexy because no one will believe it

I cant wear dress-up because I will be a joke instead of sensual

I cant wear ....

its amazing some of us leave the house with anything on at all. No stripes, loud colors, prints, nor white. However, glitter, sequins, animal prints and satin stripe around our necklines (the supposed smallest part of our upper body) are ok.

So I go to work wearing....extremely thin strapped tank tops...and shorts. And stripes and loud prints...REALLY LOUD prints. LOL. And I dyed my hair blue black and wear rich deep colors on my face. I cant wear heels but I paint my toes and I put on hats that dont match anything I wear. LOL. And they love me. Actually, they actually love themselves. And that...is what its all about...

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by Miss_Tia

I hear women telling me what they cant wear...

I cant expose my arms, they are too big

I cant wear belts, my stumach is too large

I cant wear pants, my ass is too big

I cant wear sexy nighties because I am round

I cant wear shorts my legs are too fat

I cant wear heels because people will laugh

I cant wear sexy because no one will believe it

I cant wear dress-up because I will be a joke instead of sensual

I cant wear ....

its amazing some of us leave the house with anything on at all. No stripes, loud colors, prints, nor white. However, glitter, sequins, animal prints and satin stripe around our necklines (the supposed smallest part of our upper body) are ok.

So I go to work wearing....extremely thin strapped tank tops...and shorts. And stripes and loud prints...REALLY LOUD prints. LOL. And I dyed my hair blue black and wear rich deep colors on my face. I cant wear heels but I paint my toes and I put on hats that dont match anything I wear. LOL. And they love me. Actually, they actually love themselves. And that...is what its all about...

What a truly beautiful post.

[nycfem]

Reading what Tia wrote made me think about how a few years ago, when I was at the indoor pool at the gym, after swimming a mile, I got out of the pool and was wearing a black swimsuit with a bright pink design on it. It was pretty generic. But a lean, athletic dude had to yell across the pool, "Wow, that's a really LOUD color you're wearing!" A lot of people looked at me and I just gave a little forced giggle. I was caught off-guard but I got the message. Sorry, 200lb short women shouldn't wear bright, fun colors, especially not in a dripping wet swimsuit and not at a gym. The shame stays with us and also makes it understandable why some fat people avoid the gym.

[SingularNYCFemme]

Originally Posted by nycfembbw

Reading what Tia wrote made me think about how a few years ago, when I was at the indoor pool at the gym, after swimming a mile, I got out of the pool and was wearing a black swimsuit with a bright pink design on it. It was pretty generic. But a lean, athletic dude had to yell across the pool, "Wow, that's a really LOUD color you're wearing!" A lot of people looked at me and I just gave a little forced giggle. I was caught off-guard but I got the message. Sorry, 200lb short women shouldn't wear bright, fun colors, especially not in a dripping wet swimsuit and not at a gym. The shame stays with us and also makes it understandable why some fat people avoid the gym.

Besides the financial aspects, which should be getting better in the near future, I have to admit that it's hard for me to feel comfortable in a gym, and I haven't had an experience like that (yet). I HATE that this happened to you, and I want to tell you that you are my HERO because you still go to the gym. Well, that's one of the reasons you're my hero anyway.