Friends of Bill W.

M'name is Daktari/Scooby and I'm an addict-alkie.

Apropos HPs and religion in the rooms.

Yanno, I think folks forget where they came from and what it's like to be in that place that brings us to the rooms in the first place. We were all new and clueless about the programme at one time. Folks get complacent too. Then there's the real kicker, addicts tend to be control freaks and think their way is the only way...I love the imperceptible sharp intake of breath when someone even voices that there might be ways to stay clean and sober other than the fellowships - shock, horror! Devilment makes me utter such at times

There has always been and will always be newcomers who will run screaming for the hills the minute a Higher Power or God is mentioned, they're looking for a excuse to run anyway, we can but hope that the seed was sown before they run.

Are you a group servant at the meeting you mention femmesational? A long time group member. If you are can you bring up this issue at a group conscience meeting.

You say it's a 'fad' in your area. Are there any other members observing the same as you?

Go you for trying to give those newcomers the alternate side of things from your point of view. You can but entreat them to try other meetings because not all meetings are the same.

You cannot 'save' anyone sadly. If only we could right?



Still thinking...

[LeftWriteFemme]

September 19

HUMILITY


A great woman walks my street everyday. She carries a tall walking stick with a loop for her hand. Each morning I see her low crown of hair and the half-smile, her friendly wave when I catch her eye. Each morning when I see her I see the secret play across her face, humility. This is the secret she cannot share. I know she would sing it from the mountaintops if it would help, but humility is not a secret you can tell; it’s a secret you have to live with. As I slowly learn this precious thing I see it shine in others. Recognition of the persons with inborn dignity and a keen understanding of their personal value lights inside me. When I see this fine woman walking with purpose, I appreciate myself better and am so very grateful for those who keep humility alive by living it.


Know your friends well and your books better.
*

Toolbox

I know just how hard it is to pick up the right tools.
It's like I know I have a hammer in the drawer,
in fact I have two, so, why oh, why do I feel compelled
to hit things with the heel of my shoe?

Trust and believe it is ineffective at best;
additionally it is embarrassing.
I wish I could say I have done this a handful of times,
unfortunately, I have done it over and over,
it’s hell on my shoes and worse on my morale.

Using what is at hand or foot may seem practical,
but it is not prudent.
Walking myself through the step by step process;
reading and following directions is easier
but only when I disengage the lie that says it’s harder.

[Dance-with-me]

Hi, I'm Dance, and I'm an enabler. Not a Friend of Bill's in the classic sense, but started attending Nar-anon thinking that my junkie step-daughter was the source of all my problems and finally learned that the problem was me -- and not that I was even enabling her, but that I'd spent 11 years enabling my ex/her mom to make my step-d's addiction the the only thing that mattered. I am a completely changed person now that I'm learning that I cannot fix or control anyone else's addiction - whether that be an addiction to drugs or an addiction to fixing an addict no matter what the price or consequences. I'm also addressing my own addiction to fixing damaged people. And I have to say that it's a HUGE relief after a lifetime of being the Fixer to be able to really see that it's not my job to fix or save anyone.

[Toughy]

I really wish this to be a place where everyone comes and shares.

We Agnostics.
Not everyone has a spiritual experience.
Not everyone believes in a higher power.
It is a power greater than ourselves.
Acceptance is the answer. And by not accepting people that don't have that experience or don't believe in God...is actually...well, i consider that limited and closed minded. I don't think that many people realize how they frighten people away from the rooms because of the God thing. God is written all over the book and in the steps so that is enough for some people to handle.
It is funny...i pray for them to see the light...
And i have to accept them.

I love the imperceptible sharp intake of breath when someone even voices that there might be ways to stay clean and sober other than the fellowships - shock, horror! Devilment makes me utter such at times

There has always been and will always be newcomers who will run screaming for the hills the minute a Higher Power or God is mentioned, they're looking for a excuse to run anyway, we can but hope that the seed was sown before they run.

Our program is there for everyone who has this disease we call addiction. The belief in a higher power is the cornerstone for all that follows, BUT....It is god as WE understand him. It is NOT....YOUR....general you's, version. It is a very personal thing and many struggle greatly to accept this concept so they can get on with the deal of working the steps.

Over the past month I've seen at least 12 newbies run, and I mean RUN out the doors after hearing these messages. What do I do? I run after them. And try to explain how it works for ME. But after sitting for 20 or so minutes in a room where the majority message is....you must do this, this way or you will fail....I'm just one more crazy person stalking them out of the room. An active addict is not going to have the ability to sort all this out. Remember how crazy headed you were when you first started. I didn't have a rational thought for 4 years for goodness sake. So how can these poor people reason out what I'm trying to say to them?

I read this thread fairly regularly. The above posts are about folks who are not doing well with the faith-based program of AA. The basic tenant of AA is a spiritual awakening is required for sobriety and the concept of powerlessness.

Perhaps those folks who leave AA (that is a very large number according to AA's own data) do not feel a spiritual awakening is needed/required for sobriety. There are secular programs out there. Secular meaning a spiritual awakening is NOT required for sobriety. Most secular programs do not have the powerlessness concept either.

If I am not mistaken, the first secular group started was 'Women for Sobriety, Inc' http://womenforsobriety.org . Another secular group is LifeRing Secular Recovery www.lifering.org I know that LifeRing and Women for Sobriety do not have the concept of powerlessness in their programs.

Maybe instead of trying to get them to come back in AA you might suggest they try a secular program. Or you could suggest they try LifeRing (or Women for Sobriety) plus AA.

Just some thoughts that have been running through my head after reading the above posts.

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I read this thread fairly regularly. The above posts are about folks who are not doing well with the faith-based program of AA. The basic tenant of AA is a spiritual awakening is required for sobriety and the concept of powerlessness.

Perhaps those folks who leave AA (that is a very large number according to AA's own data) do not feel a spiritual awakening is needed/required for sobriety. There are secular programs out there. Secular meaning a spiritual awakening is NOT required for sobriety. Most secular programs do not have the powerlessness concept either.

If I am not mistaken, the first secular group started was 'Women for Sobriety, Inc' http://womenforsobriety.org . Another secular group is LifeRing Secular Recovery www.lifering.org I know that LifeRing and Women for Sobriety do not have the concept of powerlessness in their programs.

Maybe instead of trying to get them to come back in AA you might suggest they try a secular program. Or you could suggest they try LifeRing (or Women for Sobriety) plus AA.

Just some thoughts that have been running through my head after reading the above posts.

Personally, I feel a person needs to go and do whatever it is that works for them. What works for me is AA. It is not a "faith based" program. At least not for me. It's a program that requires nothing but what each individual is comfortable doing when trying to understand a power greater than themselves.

I, memememe, was not complaining about having problems with a "faith based" program. I was complaining about the people in my meetings trying to MAKE it a faith based program.

I agree there are other things for people all over the place that can help facilitate sobriety. But again, for mememe, I can't speak to them because all I can do is share MY experience, strength and hope. And that comes from the non-faith based program of AA.


I don't know. Toughy, your post felt wierd to me. Can people not discuss issues in a thread titled "Friends of Bill W," without being told there are other things out there? I mean we all know there are but here in this thread with people talking about the program and how it works for them.....do we need a post that pulls bits and pieces of quotes and seems to be saying we need to get over ourselves????

It may just be me, but I just wanted to let you know it felt wierd reading your post and it reconfirmed for me why I need to not share so much from my soul in public. I'm sensitive and get my feelings hurt too easily:-)

Have a good day Toughy.

julie

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by Daktari

M'name is Daktari/Scooby and I'm an addict-alkie.

Apropos HPs and religion in the rooms.

Yanno, I think folks forget where they came from and what it's like to be in that place that brings us to the rooms in the first place. We were all new and clueless about the programme at one time. Folks get complacent too. Then there's the real kicker, addicts tend to be control freaks and think their way is the only way...I love the imperceptible sharp intake of breath when someone even voices that there might be ways to stay clean and sober other than the fellowships - shock, horror! Devilment makes me utter such at times

There has always been and will always be newcomers who will run screaming for the hills the minute a Higher Power or God is mentioned, they're looking for a excuse to run anyway, we can but hope that the seed was sown before they run.

Are you a group servant at the meeting you mention femmesational? A long time group member. If you are can you bring up this issue at a group conscience meeting.

You say it's a 'fad' in your area. Are there any other members observing the same as you?

Go you for trying to give those newcomers the alternate side of things from your point of view. You can but entreat them to try other meetings because not all meetings are the same.

You cannot 'save' anyone sadly. If only we could right?



Still thinking...

Control Freaks???? I have NO idea what you're talking about.....hehehe.

I know without a shadow of a doubt we can't save anyone, let alone everyone. It's a personal journey and we, as long time members can only show how it works for us. It's up to the newbie to do the actions they need to in order to work THEIR program. But holy HELL it's sad.

I think the problem I'm having is that I'm used to a different type of meeting. When I got sober, I got sober in the north east, New Jersey to be exact. They didn't play. The old timers told me how it was and nobody patted my head and told me everything would be ok. I had it drilled into my head that...yes, you will in fact die. You have a disease. It is fatal. It's a disease of the thinking....blah, blah, blah. You've all heard it before. But they also showed me the tools I needed to LIVE. It was all about the steps for them so it translated to ME being all about the step.

During my 23 years in the program I've been to meetings all over the United States and in a few other countries. I understand that the "tones" of meetings are different in different regions. I guess I'm comfortable in the more in your face approach because that was the only thing that got through to my crazy brain when I first got sober. When I first moved to Alabama, I realized that it was way different here. I kinda distanced myself from most service work because I really had a problem with the whole god approach down here. I've been around the meetings down here for a couple of years and I have not gotten involved like I normally would. Still working my program. Still an AA Nazi (excuse the term, it's what people call me) But I can't seem to be involved in this area because it allows me to form resentments and that will kill my ass!!!


Yes, the "gasp" heard round the rooms. I always speak about my truth when the topic is a higher power or how it works for you. LOL!!! It's kinda funny the looks I get from the ones who think GOD IS KING!!! But holy cow. Isn't sharing all about talking about what works for you???


And the group concious meetings are mostly about what color to paint the trim at Common Ground and should we get one or two more trash cans. I don't want to create friction where it would do no good other than making me feel better. Cause really, it isn't all about me. DAMMIT!!!

I think I just needed to get this off my chest and the meetings where NOT the place for this particular spleen vent! Others see it but, over the years i've been here, they've kinda pulled away from the meetings because it wasn't feeling right for them either.

I do know that this is my issue and I need to put up or shut up, but.......hehehe.......Bitching about it helps too. And I do feel SO much better after getting it of my chest.


I just have to remember....."It's not all about me," and I'll be good to go.


Take care,
julie