Friends of Bill W.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by LeftWriteFemme

<snip>


I hope this will be a place that all members of the recovering community will feel welcome here and will post at will!



Yours in service,

Sherrie

julie.........The above is the very first post and I don't think my post is inappropriate.

The post was not out of the blue, it was relevant to what was being said in the thread in the last couple of days.

I was simply suggesting another way to approach sobriety because of the conversation in this thread about folks who leave AA because of the faith-based or spiritual awakening aspects of AA...specifically Steps 2, 3, 6, 7, 11 and 12.

Many many folks new to recovery and some not so new do not know about secular programs....many folks who work in the business don't even know about them. There are secular approaches that each of us could offer to folks struggling with their own sobriety and are having trouble with AA. After all, the point is sobriety.

The more tools in the toolbox, the better off we all are.

I actually agree with julie on this one. Your post felt a bit odd and preachy there Toughy. I guess it's that gap that can happen, particularly on the internet, between intention and perception.

The conversation was actually about how a member of the fellowship(s) felt about something that was happening in her local area. It's something that can happen all over the world, I've seen such behaviour in both fellowships here but those folks are soon bloody stomped on.

I started out nigh on 30yrs ago in the AA fellowship but now, this second time round, I happen to frequent the Narcotic variety in the Anonymous family. - all ultimately founded by Bill and Bob as I'm sure you know.

"NA has no opinion on outside issues." Religion is an outside issue ...yup, really, it is. How someone chooses to get sober/clean is a personal choice. I can't recall a post where any of us of us here has suggested that there aren't other ways to achieve and maintain sobriety, it's just the way that works for us tha's all. So yer preaching to the converted really.

Another piece of the NA literature states "...This is a simple, spiritual, not religious, programme known as N..A.."

Hey there, yanno I'd really like to hear about your experience in a non religious, non spiritual programme or method of achieving and maintaining sobriety. I'm about to undertake some peer mentor training so that I can work as a volunteer in the local recovery services. Hearing a first hand experience would a great piece of information for me in preparation for this training.

[DMW]

I also agree with both Julie and Daktari

[Toughy]

I'm out of this. All of you have misunderstood/ignored my intent and/or my explanations. That feels like you are being really defensive. You have made this personal when there was no personal involved.

Thanks for the learning experience.

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I'm out of this. All of you have misunderstood/ignored my intent and/or my explanations. That feels like you are being really defensive. You have made this personal when there was no personal involved.

Thanks for the learning experience.

Toughy,

Me telling you my feelings about what you posted was not an attack. It was just me putting out there how I felt at the moment. It seemed to me that maybe you weren't reading the previous posts because as I said, It started with me complaining about people who were trying to make my meetings INTO something faith based.


I'm with you. I think there are many different options out here for each individual. And the more info out in the world the better.


It just felt odd. No critizism. No attack. Just telling you my thoughts. I'm good at that....remember. LOL!!!


Don't go away. Please. That was not my intent.


julie

As I said in my post Toughy, there is often a gap between intention and perception. Maybe you could clarify your intention in posting that there are other non religious or spiritual ways of recovery in reference to femmesational's original 'rant' about her local area.

I'm still interested in your experience of the non Anonymous fellowship ways of achieving and maintaining sobriety. I'm not joking. It really would be very useful information.





Julie...I really hope you post again, you too DMV.



Just as folks were coming out of the woodwork too

[BrutalDaddy]

My name is Brute/AJ and I'm an addict and alcoholic.


Lol. I just typed out that the whole "faith based" and "religion" thing has been keeping me from going to meetings but I know that's not true. It's me. I keep myself from going to meetings. Let me be more specific. My DISEASE wants to keep me away from sobriety. Had to tell on myself there because being honest with myself is something that is still new to me.

I still have that quick flickering thought of just up and leaving when they start doing the "God spill" during the meetings but I don't. I stick it out because I want, no, I have to share myself. Not for them. For myself. It's hard sometimes because I don't want to come across as resentful but damn it the ONLY thing that kept me at AA was being lucky enough to have a partner and sponsor (not one and same, two different folks, folks lol) who told me over and over, "Don't forget the part AFTER God that says as you understood him. If it weren't for that, I seriously don't think I'd still be sober today. I've watched newbies get up and walk out in middle of another person ranting about only way anyone can stay sober is by being on their knees praising God for this or that. Grates on my nerves but I can't let that stop me from going.

I wasn't a part of the earlier convo but couldn't help but have to share my thoughts (yes, it's about me damn it cause I'm so smart ya know?)... Don't think anyone was attacking or being defensive, Toughy. Honestly.

For me it's not a faith based program because faith based (down here in this part of the South) particularly means religious. No if's, and's, or but's about it. Lol. There are more church related AA meetings/groups/treatment centers than there are plain ole AA meetings/groups/treatment centers. So it's a huge deal here.

I can see how calling it faith based could be different then just religious based because I have faith that there is a higher power out there. Something greater than myself. Has to be. I sure as hell haven't kept myself sober for two years. Not just sober but actually happy for most part. Granted my Higher Power has been kicking my ass with all the negative karma I've got built up from over the years but that's okay. There are times I laugh about it, times I cry about it and times I say, "Fuck you....just let me be for a minute!" Nothing I can do about it except know it's there and it's keeping me sober along with tools I use.

Shit I'm rambling. I tend to do that at meetings too. Lol.

Anyway, this is good. Cool. I actually have that warm fuzzy feeling I get after sharing at a meeting. Sweet! Oh and with my new job I seriously hope to get to go to a meeting up near New Jersey or Detroit. Heard they're hard core and I want to experience that. Got a taste of it from a guy during my last meeting before I headed back out to work and wow. Blew my mind listening to him.

Done Sharing,
Brute.

[DMW]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Many many folks new to recovery and some not so new do not know about secular programs....many folks who work in the business don't even know about them. There are secular approaches that each of us could offer to folks struggling with their own sobriety and are having trouble with AA. After all, the point is sobriety.

The more tools in the toolbox, the better off we all are.

Damn... My Bad...I know that my quick post and then a cut and run didn't help here... example...just posting that i agreed with the others without expanding on my agreement with them and why. I was just agreeing with being a little
uncomfortable with the approach of the post ...not what was said.
Toughy, I also agree with what you had to say and offer too.
I definately didn't mean for you to feel attacked for sharing. For that, i apologize. I am glad i came back to check this. I can see why you would have felt that way.


And for everyone else, i apologize for the drop and run. And i have to go again.

[LeftWriteFemme]

September 20

JUST A TASTE OF SUNSHINE


The sunrise is so beautiful I want to taste it. Like a child who needs to put everything in her mouth to really know it, I feel the need for a bite. I want to participate in every way. I want to blend with the color of the sky, join the horizon and dip beyond. Look at me, who in the past sounded every retreat, now I leap toward life. I stretch my arms to take it all in, merging with the continuum on this greatest of adventures. The sun raises the charge and I lick my lips in anticipation.


Find the stop signs in your life.

*

Mercy

The rearview holds the vision,
the sad figure on the corner as I drive away,
all that is left to me are memories of God,
the rest I ejected and sped from as fast as I could.

I cannot face what is left
when I make God homeless and unloved.
Though living together was tough sometimes,
living alone is unbearable.

Nothing cooks right, cleans right, tastes right or smells right,
even the moon won’t rise right when I am strictly on my own.
And God wasn’t built for the streets,
that corner is not someplace my Higher Power fits in.

We are meant to be together
and apart the world spins off its measure.
Pitiful is what I am, so I swing around the block,
fling open the door and take pity on God and go home.

[Toughy]

by Daktari
<snip>
Hey there, yanno I'd really like to hear about your experience in a non religious, non spiritual programme or method of achieving and maintaining sobriety. I'm about to undertake some peer mentor training so that I can work as a volunteer in the local recovery services. Hearing a first hand experience would a great piece of information for me in preparation for this training.

Daktari ........I tried to send you a PM and you have no storage left. I don't want you to think I am ignoring this post. I am happy to talk to you about it.

[LeftWriteFemme]

September 21

SELF-SEEKING IS A DEBIT



Trying to get credit for everything I do has run me into debt in my anonymity account, which draws directly from my humility bank. I cannot expend my resources seeking acknowledgement and expect to retain much dignity or class. How can I build within while constantly grasping for nods and smiles from scenery and landscaping? I want approval so much that I have lost my center. In an attempt to top the charts I forgot my song. My ego writes checks that my soul can’t cover. I run my potential into the red looking to get my name in black and white. If I keep my name out of lights I have a chance of building up my dignity.


Own your own blocks.

*

No Jinn

I molested the touch control lamp.
I had no trouble turning it on,
but could never figure how to turn it off;
therefore I let the light shine in the daytime.

I called looking for guidance,
“lick your fingers then try again,” was the glib suggestion.
I offered that I was not interested
in becoming that intimate with said lamp.

Sometimes connections are made easily,
other times they cannot be made at all,
still there are times the renewal of a connection
is determined by my willingness to up the ante.

Am I willing to put a little spit into the effort
or will I leave the light to burn?

Originally Posted by Toughy

Daktari ........I tried to send you a PM and you have no storage left. I don't want you to think I am ignoring this post. I am happy to talk to you about it.

Awesome!

Thanks for coming back to post this Toughy. I really am interested in your personal experiences of recovery and will send you my personal email in a rep message if you would agree to enter into a dialogue about your own experiences



Me-me-me-me alert... this next bit is coming entirely from a 'me' place and not intended as an attack, judgement or being preachy. It is just my thoughts and feelings, nothing else. I hope that what I'm about to say is taken in that spirit.


I hope you also read what me and others have said regarding your previous posts too. There's no point in doing a bit of an "I'm outta here" flounce when you're not heard in the way you intended to be heard. Clarification and dialogue are good.

It would be fab to have a dialogue of some sort about recovery and the different ways folks achieve that. However we all are coming from a 'me place' (no shit Sherlock! ...an addict coming from a 'me' place...there's a novelty ) and speak of our direct experiences, it just so happens that for us here and only those of us here who have expressed such, those experiences are with the 'spiritual but non religious' programmes of the anonymous fellowships.

I have no idea about the others here but I sure tried another method away from the fellowships. That was to get the basic tools, with no reference to a higher power, from the AA fellowship and long term counselling, then buggered off to go live what was then my very young life...I was 23yrs old when I first got sober (16th Dec 1986)

Whaddaya know, determination and a limited tool bag lasted a good 17yrs of sobriety. Then that damn lil voice crept up again and lulled me into a very false sense of security. Cue an almost decade long 'relapse'.

I would love to discuss further my own 'issues' with the fellowships - and for all I know some of the other structured methods of maintaining sobriety - but fear that what I say may be taken as an indictment of the anonymous fellowships when that is not what I intend.

[LeftWriteFemme]

September 22

MEGAPHONE


The point of surviving, or maybe the goal after survival, is enabling the voices of victims to be heard, starting with my own. I allow the surging waves of thought and feeling to rush the gates and exit. I try to bleed the bad with and without the use of leaches. So much is stumbled upon rather than sought after. Some things hound me; I run down the street with memory at my heels. I must let the screams out or become them. Today I talk, tomorrow is for others. When I pour forth, I open the way for the rest. I have become the megaphone rather than the cheerleader. It is good to be of use.


Pollinate ideas.

*

Peace Time

I have been to the wars and through the wars
and now sit on the stoop and wonder;
will I learn to live here in the world of everyday
after having had to spend so much time running for cover.

Each time I return to what I believe is my home
I sit and rock trying to pour my soul back inside
from my hipflask where it was held for safekeeping.

I try not to spill a drop
for it is worse than shed blood and harder to rebuild.
My soul has grown pale from confinement and lack of sun,
but it still exists and for that I pat my back
and suck on my Lifesaver;

I could have done worse, was unable to do better.
I console myself with the knowledge
I never started the conflict just learned to survive it.

[LeftWriteFemme]

September 23

WILD


When I run wild through the rain my hair streaming behind me, water fleeing my face, I see with my heart the thousand other rains pouring from my past. How I peel from me the soaking luggage covering my naked pain. Nothing drives me to the cozy retreat of my bed like the humid chill of an early fall drizzle. I slip my trembling skin between the comfort and the comforter, flex my toes, towel my hair, wipe scenes of lost love from my pale, pale soul. Leaves rush my gutters, clog my mind. I see the change in me as I turn heel to heel, trees spinning bare in a blank wet world. I know this ever relived fluid, this recycled life.


Interest yourself.

*

What is Dear?


I am angry that I was taught I must hold on for dear life
instead of being taught that life is dear,
but they couldn’t teach me what they didn’t know
and couldn’t know what they had not discovered for themselves.

I wish I had learned earlier
to love the life I was taught to cling to,
but I am grateful I have been bound to life
long enough to find the joy in it.

I have found that knowing joy
causes me to cling all the more,
cling in sweetness to what was once such a bitter task.

I am angry for what I wasn’t taught,
but sadder still for what they didn’t know
and all that is lost in their lives to ignorance and tradition.

I wanted better for them
and they wanted better for me
and this is the circle which closes
around the dear that I hold onto.