Trans Appreciation

[1ladyface]

I understand that there are female IDed butches and I've dated several of them. My initial post was intended to be inclusive, not hurtful. I posted it in trans appreciation bc I was dating a transguy at the time and my 10 things list was written about him. I included butch and other IDs in that first post bc I realized as i was posting it that i didn't want anyone to feel like they couldn't post some appreciative words just bc their person is female IDed. I wasn't trying to disrespect anyone or negate the experiences of female IDed butches. I thought I was just being inclusive. I'm sorry if you were offended.

[kittygrrl]

Originally Posted by 1ladyface

I understand that there are female IDed butches and I've dated several of them. My initial post was intended to be inclusive, not hurtful. I posted it in trans appreciation bc I was dating a transguy at the time and my 10 things list was written about him. I included butch and other IDs in that first post bc I realized as i was posting it that i didn't want anyone to feel like they couldn't post some appreciative words just bc their person is female IDed. I wasn't trying to disrespect anyone or negate the experiences of female IDed butches. I thought I was just being inclusive. I'm sorry if you were offended.

This is one of those things that can be a cluster bomb for a femme generally..i have a great friend that is trans and at times i would innocently forget he preferred to be addressed in only male pronouns ie he, his etc..one day he just blew-up and dressed me down about it..i was a little bewildered because it wasn't intentional but to him it was an insult every time i slipped..When in mixed company it can be very difficult exactly how to address a person who is butch..visual cues are not always enough, I have learned to listen very carefully to how they express themselves and usually can put things together rather quickly in real time, here it's a slightly different dynamic and the politics can be a little baffling..when in doubt i usually post in the general forum for a thread i'm not sure of.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by kittygrrl

one day he just blew-up and dressed me down about it..i was a little bewildered because it wasn't intentional but to him it was an insult every time i slipped..

It's important for all of us to know that it is not a minor thing to most people -- the pronoun. On the other hand, getting yelled at is bullshit.

I am happy (well not happy, but you know) to be corrected. But yell at me and you can go **** yourself. Not volunteering for that.

[kittygrrl]

Originally Posted by Martina

It's important for all of us to know that it is not a minor thing to most people -- the pronoun. On the other hand, getting yelled at is bullshit.

I am happy (well not happy, but you know) to be corrected. But yell at me and you can go **** yourself. Not volunteering for that.

lol..yes, depending on the situation i feel the same but he's a hot-head ..this was one of those rare times i didn't appreciate it

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

A little offered help from a guy that can be hot headed and does get offended about pronoun use. First I agree it is hard here on a computer screen and always trying to be politically correct and just not knowing depending on the threads and the person but the biggest clue even for me is spelling. I mean if I see a post in any thread and I see "hy" in reference to themselves they do not ID as trans. Now if I see "he" or any form it screams at me that person is male in some form. I think it just takes picking up on the little clues we leave. I will go out of my way when typing and addressing this person to use their chosen pronoun including "she". Now do I make mistake sure who cant especially in the heat of the moment or trying to get "your" point across. I find though it becomes habit even for me when addressing the person in a post or other written form.

Do I get upset when I see "hy" when referred to me by others? Yes and No. No if that person does not know me. No if that person is getting to know me and it is a slip (that I do gently correct). Yes if this person knows me. Yes if this person has been told more then once. Yes if I am having a bad day.

Will I loose my temper yup I will admit I will. However I will not dress down or try not to dress down anyone for an honest mistake. You should see the look on a persons first when the call me "mama' or "her" in public and I do the deepest voice I can and say I think you meant "Sir" in a very calm voice. The look is priceless.
In our community though the anger is just easier to tap into sometimes. More along the fuck why don't you of all people "get it" feeling.
Now the folders on this site do help but you know what I have to admit that I will see a name of a thread on the front page and not pay attention to what category it comes from and make an idiot out of myself. So it must really be hard for others depending on "their" intent behind the post.
The biggest compliment and appreciation any femme, butch, queer, simply anyone can give me is ask me how I would like to be addressed and make it a habit to do so everywhere.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by AlixKnight4All

A little offered help from a guy that can be hot headed and does get offended about pronoun use. First I agree it is hard here on a computer screen and always trying to be politically correct and just not knowing depending on the threads and the person but the biggest clue even for me is spelling.

Or the person could simply use the pronoun box. That really quite a simple way to make sure you get called by your correct pronoun.


I mean if I see a post in any thread and I see "hy" in reference to themselves they do not ID as trans.

I define as transgendered (not transexual), and my pronoun is hy


Now if I see "he" or any form it screams at me that person is male in some form. I think it just takes picking up on the little clues we leave. I will go out of my way when typing and addressing this person to use their chosen pronoun including "she". Now do I make mistake sure who cant especially in the heat of the moment or trying to get "your" point across. I find though it becomes habit even for me when addressing the person in a post or other written form.

Do I get upset when I see "hy" when referred to me by others? Yes and No. No if that person does not know me. No if that person is getting to know me and it is a slip (that I do gently correct). Yes if this person knows me. Yes if this person has been told more then once. Yes if I am having a bad day.

Will I loose my temper yup I will admit I will. However I will not dress down or try not to dress down anyone for an honest mistake. You should see the look on a persons first when the call me "mama' or "her" in public and I do the deepest voice I can and say I think you meant "Sir" in a very calm voice. The look is priceless.

I think that if are biologically one sex and define as another, we need to give people a break. Even if a person is on hormones, you cannot always tell the sex they identify as.



In our community though the anger is just easier to tap into sometimes. More along the fuck why don't you of all people "get it" feeling.
Now the folders on this site do help but you know what I have to admit that I will see a name of a thread on the front page and not pay attention to what category it comes from and make an idiot out of myself. So it must really be hard for others depending on "their" intent behind the post.
The biggest compliment and appreciation any femme, butch, queer, simply anyone can give me is ask me how I would like to be addressed and make it a habit to do so everywhere.

---------------

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Dapper
I agree with you completely. My post is actually out of order and not is response to the current topic. Sometimes I truly do take to long to write my posts *laughs*.
Mine was in response to posts I now know I should have quoted. Again my mistake. I was just offering clues that may help here and else where not this thread.

To be clear when I see hy I do not assume male and I do not assume not male. What I do assume is I should use it with that person until I know them or I ask.
In most threads it is just simpler not to use pronouns period accept foe me and I.
But as always thank you for your response you always make me think.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by 1ladyface

I understand that there are female IDed butches and I've dated several of them. My initial post was intended to be inclusive, not hurtful. I posted it in trans appreciation bc I was dating a transguy at the time and my 10 things list was written about him. I included butch and other IDs in that first post bc I realized as i was posting it that i didn't want anyone to feel like they couldn't post some appreciative words just bc their person is female IDed. I wasn't trying to disrespect anyone or negate the experiences of female IDed butches. I thought I was just being inclusive. I'm sorry if you were offended.

I get you meant no harm and I appreciate your apology..... But.......and yes there is a but........

It's not just female id'd butch folks. There are male id'd butch folks who are not trans. There are butch folks who do not identify with masculinity in any form, who view butch as a different kind of femininity.

And I brought this up because I cannot and will not be silent when I see butch of the non-trans varieties conflated with trans and/or man.

1ladyface.... I did not bring it up to call you out on anything because it's not really about you as an individual. And the learning curve here is a monster......the post would have been entirely appropriate in the Trans Zone folder speaking your thanks (thread titled Trans Appreciation) to trans/men and leaving out the 'inclusive' aspects and no reason for any non-trans person to get our panties/boxers in a bunch ..........at least that is my nickels worth....

[Blue_Daddy-O]

[QUOTE=Toughy;658395]

And I brought this up because I cannot and will not be silent when I see butch of the non-trans varieties conflated with trans and/or man.

[QUOTE]

I disagree with you Toughy. Based on 1ladyface's response I don't see conflation.

[BullDog]

[quote=Blue_Daddy-O;658410][QUOTE=Toughy;658395]

And I brought this up because I cannot and will not be silent when I see butch of the non-trans varieties conflated with trans and/or man.

I disagree with you Toughy. Based on 1ladyface's response I don't see conflation.

Any time butch and trans are put together we are automatically seen as he/male and referred to or compared to that.

It seems people are good about respecting those who do not wish to be called she or a woman. We would like the same courtesy in return.

I think it is nice to have a trans appreciation thread.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Any time butch and trans are put together we are automatically seen as he/male and referred to or compared to that.

This bears repeating.

[Corkey]

When in doubt, ask.

[Blue_Daddy-O]

Originally Posted by 1ladyface

I understand that there are female IDed butches and I've dated several of them. My initial post was intended to be inclusive, not hurtful. I posted it in trans appreciation bc I was dating a transguy at the time and my 10 things list was written about him. I included butch and other IDs in that first post bc I realized as i was posting it that i didn't want anyone to feel like they couldn't post some appreciative words just bc their person is female IDed. I wasn't trying to disrespect anyone or negate the experiences of female IDed butches. I thought I was just being inclusive. I'm sorry if you were offended.

I see nothing wrong with where you posted your appreciation. Makes sense to me and it appears you posted in the right place making your best effort to be inclusive. Enough said, to me.