Dating other femmes exes: what do you think?

[Martina]

I was seeing the heteronormative part is ASSUMING that we date across genders. That is heteronormative. Not saying butch-femme is. But the assumption that femmes NATURALLY or inevitably date butches and butches femmes IS.

I am not saying it was generally assumed, but in some posts, it was. I guess it's a fair assumption on this site, but it's not, in fact, true of all of us. And sometimes I like to point that out.

[princessbelle]

I disagree totally.

I date women. Nothing heteronormalitive about it. Nothing. When i dated FtMs or Trans, still wasn't heteronormalitive. I haven't been on that side of the fence for 15 years. lol.

You are right it's not worth our time here i'm sure. We just see things differently. That's ok.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

I disagree totally.

I date women. Nothing heteronormalitive about it. Nothing. When i dated FtMs or Trans, still wasn't heteronormalitive. I haven't been on that side of the fence for 15 years. lol.

You are right it's not worth our time here i'm sure. We just see things differently. That's ok.

Where am I saying that that is heteronormative? Where? I clarified. I am saying it is heteronormative to assume that masculine folks inevitably date feminine.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Martina

Where am I saying that that is heteronormative? Where? I clarified. I am saying it is heteronormative to assume that masculine folks inevitably date feminine.

I hear you. I still disagree. I do not see that feminine dating masculine is heteronormalitive. I just don't.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

I do not see that feminine dating masculine is heteronormalitive. I just don't.

Nor do I!!

Assuming it is natural or the norm IS, however.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Martina

Nor do I!!

Assuming it is natural or the norm IS, however.

I haven't seen anyone raise that assumption at all. Who are you talking about that did that?

[macele]

for me it would be the same thing if i get into a relationship/date my heterosexual male friend's ex.

makes no difference if my friend is homosexual/heterosexual/transexual/bisexual/butch/femme, etc. ... it's still my friends ex.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Martina

Where am I saying that that is heteronormative? Where? I clarified. I am saying it is heteronormative to assume that masculine folks inevitably date feminine.

I think I am probably way more likely to assume that on this website microcosm than I am out in my general Queer circles. That's just based on what I perceive to be the patterns of attraction in this community.

Have certainly seen folks date across all genders here but I do think that the majority of connections I see are based on an attraction that looks very much like a yin/yang.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Martina

Sigh. I was seeing the heteronormative part is ASSUMING that we date across genders. That is heteronormative. Not saying butch-femme is. But the assumption that femmes NATURALLY or inevitably date butches and butches femmes IS.

I am not saying it was generally assumed, but in some posts, it was. I guess it's a fair assumption on this site, but it's not, in fact, true of all of us. And sometimes I like to point that out.

I tend not to assume that femme = dating butch only. I certainly don't date in this way.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I tend not to assume that femme = dating butch only. I certainly don't date in this way.

Yes, and there are butches who date butches here. And some andro women. So it's good once and a while I think to raise one's hand and say, femme-femme doesn't necessarily mean platonic friend nor butch-femme necessarily potential dating partners.

Anyway. I don't think anyone has a stake in saying that it DOES mean that. But it does get assumed a lot, which makes sense. So sometimes I clear my throat and say "ahem," there are a few of us who do other stuff too.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Martina

Yes, and there are butches who date butches here. And some andro women. So it's good once and a while I think to raise one's hand and say, femme-femme doesn't necessarily mean platonic friend nor butch-femme necessarily potential dating partners.

Anyway. I don't think anyone has a stake in saying that it DOES mean that. But it does get assumed a lot, which makes sense. So sometimes I clear my throat and say "ahem," there are a few of us who do other stuff too.

I'm glad you do that! I think it helps break down some of those pre-conceived notions or maybe patterns of expectation that we all bump into.

I know I feel much the same way (gratitude) when people speak up for "ahem, not all Butches identify as 'he'" and "not all fat Femmes want to lose weight" and "ahem, bottom Butch does NOT equal submissive".

[Martina]

I like gender. I like people who rock it, be they femme, butch, genderqueer or something else.

I also like power; powerful people do it for me.

I am not interested in someone because they are butch or femme. I like butch. I like femme. But I like my kinda butch and my kinda femme. Butches who are not like the kind who do it for me -- I am no more interested in than in anyone else who does not ring my bell.

What I do get from butches and femmes that I am grateful for (and need) is that mutual recognition that we offer one another, that respect and appreciation of one another that we so far can only get from one another. I value that highly.

Edited to add: This probably seems like it follows from nothing. Just commenting on the Ying-Yang thing. I am not so ying yang except where power is concerned. Not so much with gender.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Martina

Yes, and there are butches who date butches here. And some andro women. So it's good once and a while I think to raise one's hand and say, femme-femme doesn't necessarily mean platonic friend nor butch-femme necessarily potential dating partners.

Anyway. I don't think anyone has a stake in saying that it DOES mean that. But it does get assumed a lot, which makes sense. So sometimes I clear my throat and say "ahem," there are a few of us who do other stuff too.

Ahhh, see I post with the assumption Ex meant ex period, not just specific to butch.femme relationships.

I'm personally not goinfriendship friendship over lust/dating that goes across the gender board.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Martina

Sigh. I was seeing the heteronormative part is ASSUMING that we date across genders. That is heteronormative. Not saying butch-femme is. But the assumption that femmes NATURALLY or inevitably date butches and butches femmes IS.

I am not saying it was generally assumed, but in some posts, it was. I guess it's a fair assumption on this site, but it's not, in fact, true of all of us. And sometimes I like to point that out.

Ah, I see what you're saying.

I think when I think of the Butch/Femme dance in my head, it is a specific dynamic based on mutual attraction of certain gender-types. This is probably binary thinking. That dance has been exploded for me in amazing ways by witnessing Butches date other Butches and Femmes date other Femmes and Transmen dating Butches or Femmes and vice-versa.

My specific brand of Femme is attracted to Butches when it comes to sex and partnering. I like the genderfuck and the mind-fuck. The other wonderful thing that comes from that is that I find camaraderie with other Femmes who have a similar kind of specific attraction to other Butches. It's just familiar and intimate on levels that feel cozy (and maybe safe?)

Doesn't mean I don't have anything in common with Femme sisters who exclusively date other Femmes or Transmen. It's just a different orbit and a different level of connection.

When I think of the kind of boundaries I want to have in friendships and dating, I think about the value of my connections and not the gender of those connections.

[*Anya*]

Wow!

Take a several hours off and the discussion heads in fascinating directions!

Awesome! To me, the original intent does not matter nearly as much as the directions this has taken.

It will take me an hour to read all the pages but am headed out to my folks house so it will have to wait.

Thanks all and I have learned a great deal so far.

PS: tonight is the walking dead and dexter so reading all your great posts may take me a while but I will!