Dating other femmes exes: what do you think?

[Dance-with-me]

Originally Posted by Talon

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion regarding this, of course...But no.
There are just waaay tooo many fish in the sea, for me to ever need to do that. Whether the individual was a good friend or a not-so-good friend..that's an iron-clad "No-No". Sisters before Misters, always.

This conversation has taken so many different directions that I hope you don't mind my asking - are you saying that you wouldn't date or flirt with someone just because they were the ex of a casual acquaintance, whose name and face you happened to know and whose path you sometimes crossed socially, but who was not someone with whom you had any close personal friendship?

I'm not at all challenging anyone who would choose that - each to her own, certainly! I just am curious as to whether or not that's what you meant.

[Angeltoes]

Originally Posted by Dance-with-me

This conversation has taken so many different directions that I hope you don't mind my asking - are you saying that you wouldn't date or flirt with someone just because they were the ex of a casual acquaintance, whose name and face you happened to know and whose path you sometimes crossed socially, but who was not someone with whom you had any close personal friendship?

I'm not at all challenging anyone who would choose that - each to her own, certainly! I just am curious as to whether or not that's what you meant.

I just got a kick out of the 'Sisters before Misters' line. That's the thing though, if it's a sister the ex is off limits. If it's a casual acquaintance then probably not.

[Dance-with-me]

Yes, I like that line "sisters before misters" as well - and believe in it!! My friends mean the world to me, and I am unquestionably loyal to them -- but at the same time, even with the very best of my friends, THEY are responsible for managing and communicating their limits and boundaries, not me.

The main thing is that I am just not at all understanding why someone might feel the same about the ex of a casual acquaintances. I would never advocate deliberately pushing something in someone's face in order to be hurtful - even if she were an enemy, that says something about you and not them if you were to do that. But I honestly just don't get choosing to feel as if the ex of a casual acquaintance is off-limits just because your social circles happen to overlap, and taking on the responsibility to protect the feelings of an acquaintance who split with someone a couple of months before. Her feelings and boundaries are her responsibility to manage, not mine. I'm not even saying that her feelings of hurt at seeing her ex's interest in someone else would be at all invalid -- but they're still her responsibility, not mine, not even the ex's.

[Rockinonahigh]

Back when I was in the straight life I was headed to work one morning when a state trooper car pulled me over,lights flashing sirens blowing to wake the dead.I had no clue why cause I knew I was doing the speed limit and all my lights worked.Low and behold it was a casual friends bio hubby,the dam dick head hit me up for a sexy night out while his wife was staying with her sick mom.I told hime his wifes friendship was worth more to me that a night out with him or anyone and to buzz off.This was a long time before thay had mounted cams and mics in the patrole cars so I really didnt have any proof of this,but I did mention it to my uncle who was a federal marshal the next week this guy was asingned to desk duty untill further notice.I never did mention it to his wife but did find out a long time later he had been doing this for a while with others,it did cost him his badge and job eventualy.
I have a hard and fast rule about dateing my friends exes, even if its someones I casualy know cause I dont want any crap from breakups falling on me or probs with a friendship over said break up.It all comes from respect for myself and my friends.

[Martina]

Well, I don't date "misters," and I do sometimes date "sisters." But whatever.

In my world -- queer and leather -- the dating pool is somewhat smaller. I am also poly. So some of the intensity around this escapes me.

For the most part, however, I am not interested in close friends' partners. I know too damned much about them. I have good friends whose partners I love. (Unfortunately, one of those couples is getting divorced.) But, in general, my good friends don't pick as *I* would choose for them. Their partners aren't good enough for them because my friends are so fucking fabulous that it would take an angel to merit their attentions. And they usually do not date angels.

So after hearing all the stories about the partners, I am not really that interested in them. I'd be like, yeah, try that shit with ME and see how it works out.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Martina

Well, I don't date "misters," and I do sometimes date "sisters." But whatever.

In my world -- queer and leather -- the dating pool is somewhat smaller. I am also poly. So some of the intensity around this escapes me.

For the most part, however, I am not interested in close friends' partners. I know too damned much about them. I have good friends whose partners I love. (Unfortunately, one of those couples is getting divorced.) But, in general, my good friends don't pick as *I* would choose for them. Their partners aren't good enough for them because my friends are so fucking fabulous that it would take an angel to merit their attentions. And they usually do not date angels.

So after hearing all the stories about the partners, I am not really that interested in them. I'd be like, yeah, try that shit with ME and see how it works out.

i kinda feel this way too.. but sometimes two good people just don't make a good match.. but from my experience most of my femmefriendsisters left someone for a good reason, and i sure as heck don't would not want to even think about inviting that mess into my life..many times i've encouraged them to move and find happiness... so that would be beyond weird.

[Blaze]

Wow, this is a very interesting and informational thread...
It sheds light and as for the counter part that it's speaking of, actually makes me kind of nervous. Speaking only because of being with my partner for 9 years. I don't know where I would fit. If we broke up. I am shy around woman, I don't know if someone is hitting on me because I am clueless that way. Because I am so clueless she had to spell it out to me that she liked me before I even caught on and jumped into this relationship. I would have to learn to date again, oh my, now that's scary!
But this thread brings to light that perhaps I would be alone. Hmmm, You Ladies sure do know what you want. That's awesome! Guess I would need to start searching outside of the network...

I know, I know, get out Blaze...

[Talon]

Originally Posted by Martina

Well, I don't date "misters," and I do sometimes date "sisters." But whatever.

In my world -- queer and leather -- the dating pool is somewhat smaller. I am also poly. So some of the intensity around this escapes me.

For the most part, however, I am not interested in close friends' partners. I know too damned much about them. I have good friends whose partners I love. (Unfortunately, one of those couples is getting divorced.) But, in general, my good friends don't pick as *I* would choose for them. Their partners aren't good enough for them because my friends are so fucking fabulous that it would take an angel to merit their attentions. And they usually do not date angels.

So after hearing all the stories about the partners, I am not really that interested in them. I'd be like, yeah, try that shit with ME and see how it works out.

*chuckle*

To each their own and all that... but, it was only a figure of speech..not literal.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Martina

Well, I don't date "misters," and I do sometimes date "sisters." But whatever.

In my world -- queer and leather -- the dating pool is somewhat smaller. I am also poly. So some of the intensity around this escapes me.
------------------------------------------------------------------

I like you don't date just "misters" and sometimes love to date some "sisters" also like you I am queer and leather, but when it comes to *DATING* I tend to be flexible till I'm not. That means in *DATING* that I am not going to necessarily *ONLY* date leatherfolk, and since *dating* doesn't need to, have to, go further than simply dating my pools don't feel so small.




For the most part, however, I am not interested in close friends' partners. I know too damned much about them. I have good friends whose partners I love. (Unfortunately, one of those couples is getting divorced.) But, in general, my good friends don't pick as *I* would choose for them. Their partners aren't good enough for them because my friends are so fucking fabulous that it would take an angel to merit their attentions. And they usually do not date angels.

So after hearing all the stories about the partners, I am not really that interested in them. I'd be like, yeah, try that shit with ME and see how it works out.

Dating friends partners no matter how amicable the break up can lead to unnecessary messy stuff that I personally don't want to be bothered with. If say Carmela breaks up with that girl that I saw her with that one time at El Tapatio eating eating Menudo and I've not sat privy to Carmela's and Olga's fights, sex life, differences, etc I may date her only because Carmela is someone I know from hanging out at El Tapatio and not from kicking it back with and chit chatting online or via telephone, email, text, homing pigeon, smoke signals etc.

Dating depends on the person's interpretation of what dating is just that. Dating.

Dating Olga though I know who Carmela isn't some crime, but dating Margaret's husband after their break up is not something I am gonna even do because well

A. I don't date that kinda guy

B. Sancho is Republican

C. Sancho is straight

D. Margaret is my friend and I like her more than him, he came along with the package.

[Breathless]

Why did you never mention this to his wife, if it was her friendship that you held so dear? Whether she would believe you are not, doesnt really matter... the truth is what is important, and respecting someone in my opinion starts and stays with always being honest with them, no matter how tough the news is to hear and deal with. I figure.. in my little head, that the news of his behavior is going to come out sooner or later, and I personally would rather hear it from someone that i care about, in a private setting that I would feel safe to bawl my eyes out in front of.. than in a public setting with all the embarrassment and eyes and questions from on lookers.. which I am sure it came to light in..
Just curious.

Originally Posted by Rockinonahigh

Back when I was in the straight life I was headed to work one morning when a state trooper car pulled me over,lights flashing sirens blowing to wake the dead.I had no clue why cause I knew I was doing the speed limit and all my lights worked.Low and behold it was a casual friends bio hubby,the dam dick head hit me up for a sexy night out while his wife was staying with her sick mom.I told hime his wifes friendship was worth more to me that a night out with him or anyone and to buzz off.This was a long time before thay had mounted cams and mics in the patrole cars so I really didnt have any proof of this,but I did mention it to my uncle who was a federal marshal the next week this guy was asingned to desk duty untill further notice.I never did mention it to his wife but did find out a long time later he had been doing this for a while with others,it did cost him his badge and job eventualy.
I have a hard and fast rule about dateing my friends exes, even if its someones I casualy know cause I dont want any crap from breakups falling on me or probs with a friendship over said break up.It all comes from respect for myself and my friends.

[Talon]

Originally Posted by Dance-with-me

This conversation has taken so many different directions that I hope you don't mind my asking - are you saying that you wouldn't date or flirt with someone just because they were the ex of a casual acquaintance, whose name and face you happened to know and whose path you sometimes crossed socially, but who was not someone with whom you had any close personal friendship?

I'm not at all challenging anyone who would choose that - each to her own, certainly! I just am curious as to whether or not that's what you meant.

I certainly don't mind you asking. I think it would depend upon how serious their relationship had been and also how long it had lasted. (in regards to a passing, casual aquantance).
I try not to cause harm to those who are in "romantic mourning". Generally, I think that people need time to go through that whole process (on both ends)..so I wouldn't want to get involved in that situation in any form, until some time had passed.

[Dance-with-me]

Originally Posted by Talon

I certainly don't mind you asking. I think it would depend upon how serious their relationship had been and also how long it had lasted. (in regards to a passing, casual aquantance).
I try not to cause harm to those who are in "romantic mourning". Generally, I think that people need time to go through that whole process (on both ends)..so I wouldn't want to get involved in that situation in any form, until some time had passed.

OK, I understand that - but how much of that is your responsibility and how much is hers? How are you supposed to be able to figure out how much time has passed before she is strong enough to see her ex moving on - presuming that she has chosen to be someplace where both she and her ex are socializing? Especially if you don't really know her and therefore don't know the dynamics of their relationship or of their breakup, you don't know what they've agreed to, you don't know if she's someone who takes responsibility for her own emotions or if she's someone who is going to seek out and project drama no matter how far she has to reach for it? Does she get to decide that two months is not enough time? Six months? A year? And if she decides that, how are you supposed to know what she has set as her boundary? Again, I'm speaking of an acquaintance, not a friend, and I'm just not seeing how I could ever make myself responsible for protecting an acquaintance's feelings - that's HER responsibility, and TO ME (as someone who has a long history as an enabler, btw, and has finally learned that it's not my job to fix or protect everyone) there's no way at all that I can take on that responsibility.

I'm also not including the situation alluded to in the friend's cop husband story -- he was just being a creepy a**hole. So if I knew that this ex was just being a callous jerk, then that's a whole different ball game -- but I'm still basing my decisions on my perceptions of the person who is trying to flirt with me, NOT on my sense of needing to protect that person's ex.

[Talon]

Originally Posted by Dance-with-me

OK, I understand that - but how much of that is your responsibility and how much is hers? How are you supposed to be able to figure out how much time has passed before she is strong enough to see her ex moving on - presuming that she has chosen to be someplace where both she and her ex are socializing? Especially if you don't really know her and therefore don't know the dynamics of their relationship or of their breakup, you don't know what they've agreed to, you don't know if she's someone who takes responsibility for her own emotions or if she's someone who is going to seek out and project drama no matter how far she has to reach for it? Does she get to decide that two months is not enough time? Six months? A year? And if she decides that, how are you supposed to know what she has set as her boundary? Again, I'm speaking of an acquaintance, not a friend, and I'm just not seeing how I could ever make myself responsible for protecting an acquaintance's feelings - that's HER responsibility, and TO ME (as someone who has a long history as an enabler, btw, and has finally learned that it's not my job to fix or protect everyone) there's no way at all that I can take on that responsibility.

I'm also not including the situation alluded to in the friend's cop husband story -- he was just being a creepy a**hole. So if I knew that this ex was just being a callous jerk, then that's a whole different ball game -- but I'm still basing my decisions on my perceptions of the person who is trying to flirt with me, NOT on my sense of needing to protect that person's ex.

Only speaking for myself here, but I don't get all up in my head about it. I can only use my intuition served with a side of common sense. The reality is, is that no one truly knows that ideal time. I don't neccessarily think about it as a responsibility at all. I just try to go by what I *think* is right..and what I *feel* is right. Then, *I* can live with whatever decision *I've* made.
It actually kinda has a selfish aspect to it..*chuckle*
For me, It's NOT about being an enabler or babysitting another's feelings.
This is how I would proceed in any situation...for the simple fact that I don't enjoy regrets, in any form.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Talon

...
I try not to cause harm to those who are in "romantic mourning"....

This struck me as something significant. In the original post, the scenario was of an acquaintance, and many posts since then have touched on the possibility that an acquaintance might not know enough about Person A to know if she's hurt or over her ex. I think what you said above also brings up the point that everyone's definition of "doing harm" might vary. Many of the posts here stated that flirting is just that... flirting...and therefore, harmless. It isn't dating, it isn't having sex, it's flirting. To others that's a cardinal sin. So, I guess my point is that everything is relative and subjective. Someone not adhering to the "femme code" may not be acting out of malice, but out of a place that flirting is harmless.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

This struck me as something significant. In the original post, the scenario was of an acquaintance, and many posts since then have touched on the possibility that an acquaintance might not know enough about Person A to know if she's hurt or over her ex. I think what you said above also brings up the point that everyone's definition of "doing harm" might vary. Many of the posts here stated that flirting is just that... flirting...and therefore, harmless. It isn't dating, it isn't having sex, it's flirting. To others that's a cardinal sin. So, I guess my point is that everything is relative and subjective. Someone not adhering to the "femme code" may not be acting out of malice, but out of a place that flirting is harmless.

Flirting is harmless! I always get confused why folks (general) confuse flirting, crushings, being nice as "HEY I WANNA MARRY YOU"


Flirting is simply that a short, instantaneous quick exchange of body language, words or looks with or without intent because sometimes flirting is started with the attempt to capture much more than just a moment.

[Rockinonahigh]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Flirting is harmless! I always get confused why folks (general) confuse flirting, crushings, being nice as "HEY I WANNA MARRY YOU"


Flirting is simply that a short, instantaneous quick exchange of body language, words or looks with or without intent because sometimes flirting is started with the attempt to capture much more than just a moment.

Snow Im with u on this statement about peopel thinking if u are flirting with them its a near walk down the isle or to hook up some way.This is the reason I dont say much when i'm out at he gay bars or in a group.I knolw what I am saying to people but dam some folks have the ablity to turn it into something else.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Rockinonahigh

Snow Im with u on this statement about peopel thinking if u are flirting with them its a near walk down the isle or to hook up some way.This is the reason I dont say much when i'm out at he gay bars or in a group.I knolw what I am saying to people but dam some folks have the ablity to turn it into something else.

Yeah once a woman said *i like you dee* and i said * awwww i like you too*...

i later found out i was engaged.

[Rockinonahigh]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

Yeah once a woman said *i like you dee* and i said * awwww i like you too*...

i later found out i was engaged.

I met theis cute red head one night I bought her two drinks an danced with her once,we had a bare conversation while I was waiting on someone.Two day's later she showed up at my door school books and baggage to walk right in,I told her to get back in her car and go home I already had a roomie,then shut the door.Some people are just to dersprate.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

This struck me as something significant. In the original post, the scenario was of an acquaintance, and many posts since then have touched on the possibility that an acquaintance might not know enough about Person A to know if she's hurt or over her ex. I think what you said above also brings up the point that everyone's definition of "doing harm" might vary. Many of the posts here stated that flirting is just that... flirting...and therefore, harmless. It isn't dating, it isn't having sex, it's flirting. To others that's a cardinal sin. So, I guess my point is that everything is relative and subjective. Someone not adhering to the "femme code" may not be acting out of malice, but out of a place that flirting is harmless.

Bouncing off this....The significant difference would be if you have very VERY close femme friends or butch friends or whatever ID tight, "chosen family" friends, would know what line to not cross. I know *my* special chosen ones would as well as they know i would.

If it is an acquaintance, i believe, all bets are off. They wouldn't know the situation at all and it's not my responsibility to tell them nor is it theirs to steer clear if they don't want to. Femme or not femme. I figure things all come out in the wash eventually anyway. The peeps close to us know what went wrong to begin with, most of the time, and as others have said, would most likely steer clear.

Even with light flirting, there is a fine line that is never crossed with my select few of tighties. It's just respect for their relationships as well as respect for my own. It's not anything some of us would even have to think about...it's just natural.

But, kidding around flirting? Of course we do it sometimes. It's all in fun...again, boundaries, respect. It's not complicated.

That's how i feel about it anyway.

[Talon]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

This struck me as something significant. In the original post, the scenario was of an acquaintance, and many posts since then have touched on the possibility that an acquaintance might not know enough about Person A to know if she's hurt or over her ex. I think what you said above also brings up the point that everyone's definition of "doing harm" might vary. Many of the posts here stated that flirting is just that... flirting...and therefore, harmless. It isn't dating, it isn't having sex, it's flirting. To others that's a cardinal sin. So, I guess my point is that everything is relative and subjective. Someone not adhering to the "femme code" may not be acting out of malice, but out of a place that flirting is harmless.

>Well of course, we're all unique beings (obviously), so everything is ultimately subjective according to one's individual perspective, as well as their own personal life experiences.

I was asked my opinion, therefore I gave it.

Yeah, I actually *do* know what flirting is.

And sure, sometimes it is indeed harmless...but not always...and I think that most people can understand the difference between the two.

I also was not aware that "others" thought harmless flirting was a "CARDINAL SIN".