Dating other femmes exes: what do you think?

[Talon]

Originally Posted by Dance-with-me

This conversation has taken so many different directions that I hope you don't mind my asking - are you saying that you wouldn't date or flirt with someone just because they were the ex of a casual acquaintance, whose name and face you happened to know and whose path you sometimes crossed socially, but who was not someone with whom you had any close personal friendship?

I'm not at all challenging anyone who would choose that - each to her own, certainly! I just am curious as to whether or not that's what you meant.

I certainly don't mind you asking. I think it would depend upon how serious their relationship had been and also how long it had lasted. (in regards to a passing, casual aquantance).
I try not to cause harm to those who are in "romantic mourning". Generally, I think that people need time to go through that whole process (on both ends)..so I wouldn't want to get involved in that situation in any form, until some time had passed.

[Dance-with-me]

Originally Posted by Talon

I certainly don't mind you asking. I think it would depend upon how serious their relationship had been and also how long it had lasted. (in regards to a passing, casual aquantance).
I try not to cause harm to those who are in "romantic mourning". Generally, I think that people need time to go through that whole process (on both ends)..so I wouldn't want to get involved in that situation in any form, until some time had passed.

OK, I understand that - but how much of that is your responsibility and how much is hers? How are you supposed to be able to figure out how much time has passed before she is strong enough to see her ex moving on - presuming that she has chosen to be someplace where both she and her ex are socializing? Especially if you don't really know her and therefore don't know the dynamics of their relationship or of their breakup, you don't know what they've agreed to, you don't know if she's someone who takes responsibility for her own emotions or if she's someone who is going to seek out and project drama no matter how far she has to reach for it? Does she get to decide that two months is not enough time? Six months? A year? And if she decides that, how are you supposed to know what she has set as her boundary? Again, I'm speaking of an acquaintance, not a friend, and I'm just not seeing how I could ever make myself responsible for protecting an acquaintance's feelings - that's HER responsibility, and TO ME (as someone who has a long history as an enabler, btw, and has finally learned that it's not my job to fix or protect everyone) there's no way at all that I can take on that responsibility.

I'm also not including the situation alluded to in the friend's cop husband story -- he was just being a creepy a**hole. So if I knew that this ex was just being a callous jerk, then that's a whole different ball game -- but I'm still basing my decisions on my perceptions of the person who is trying to flirt with me, NOT on my sense of needing to protect that person's ex.

[Talon]

Originally Posted by Dance-with-me

OK, I understand that - but how much of that is your responsibility and how much is hers? How are you supposed to be able to figure out how much time has passed before she is strong enough to see her ex moving on - presuming that she has chosen to be someplace where both she and her ex are socializing? Especially if you don't really know her and therefore don't know the dynamics of their relationship or of their breakup, you don't know what they've agreed to, you don't know if she's someone who takes responsibility for her own emotions or if she's someone who is going to seek out and project drama no matter how far she has to reach for it? Does she get to decide that two months is not enough time? Six months? A year? And if she decides that, how are you supposed to know what she has set as her boundary? Again, I'm speaking of an acquaintance, not a friend, and I'm just not seeing how I could ever make myself responsible for protecting an acquaintance's feelings - that's HER responsibility, and TO ME (as someone who has a long history as an enabler, btw, and has finally learned that it's not my job to fix or protect everyone) there's no way at all that I can take on that responsibility.

I'm also not including the situation alluded to in the friend's cop husband story -- he was just being a creepy a**hole. So if I knew that this ex was just being a callous jerk, then that's a whole different ball game -- but I'm still basing my decisions on my perceptions of the person who is trying to flirt with me, NOT on my sense of needing to protect that person's ex.

Only speaking for myself here, but I don't get all up in my head about it. I can only use my intuition served with a side of common sense. The reality is, is that no one truly knows that ideal time. I don't neccessarily think about it as a responsibility at all. I just try to go by what I *think* is right..and what I *feel* is right. Then, *I* can live with whatever decision *I've* made.
It actually kinda has a selfish aspect to it..*chuckle*
For me, It's NOT about being an enabler or babysitting another's feelings.
This is how I would proceed in any situation...for the simple fact that I don't enjoy regrets, in any form.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Talon

...
I try not to cause harm to those who are in "romantic mourning"....

This struck me as something significant. In the original post, the scenario was of an acquaintance, and many posts since then have touched on the possibility that an acquaintance might not know enough about Person A to know if she's hurt or over her ex. I think what you said above also brings up the point that everyone's definition of "doing harm" might vary. Many of the posts here stated that flirting is just that... flirting...and therefore, harmless. It isn't dating, it isn't having sex, it's flirting. To others that's a cardinal sin. So, I guess my point is that everything is relative and subjective. Someone not adhering to the "femme code" may not be acting out of malice, but out of a place that flirting is harmless.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

This struck me as something significant. In the original post, the scenario was of an acquaintance, and many posts since then have touched on the possibility that an acquaintance might not know enough about Person A to know if she's hurt or over her ex. I think what you said above also brings up the point that everyone's definition of "doing harm" might vary. Many of the posts here stated that flirting is just that... flirting...and therefore, harmless. It isn't dating, it isn't having sex, it's flirting. To others that's a cardinal sin. So, I guess my point is that everything is relative and subjective. Someone not adhering to the "femme code" may not be acting out of malice, but out of a place that flirting is harmless.

Flirting is harmless! I always get confused why folks (general) confuse flirting, crushings, being nice as "HEY I WANNA MARRY YOU"


Flirting is simply that a short, instantaneous quick exchange of body language, words or looks with or without intent because sometimes flirting is started with the attempt to capture much more than just a moment.

[Rockinonahigh]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Flirting is harmless! I always get confused why folks (general) confuse flirting, crushings, being nice as "HEY I WANNA MARRY YOU"


Flirting is simply that a short, instantaneous quick exchange of body language, words or looks with or without intent because sometimes flirting is started with the attempt to capture much more than just a moment.

Snow Im with u on this statement about peopel thinking if u are flirting with them its a near walk down the isle or to hook up some way.This is the reason I dont say much when i'm out at he gay bars or in a group.I knolw what I am saying to people but dam some folks have the ablity to turn it into something else.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Rockinonahigh

Snow Im with u on this statement about peopel thinking if u are flirting with them its a near walk down the isle or to hook up some way.This is the reason I dont say much when i'm out at he gay bars or in a group.I knolw what I am saying to people but dam some folks have the ablity to turn it into something else.

Yeah once a woman said *i like you dee* and i said * awwww i like you too*...

i later found out i was engaged.

[Rockinonahigh]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

Yeah once a woman said *i like you dee* and i said * awwww i like you too*...

i later found out i was engaged.

I met theis cute red head one night I bought her two drinks an danced with her once,we had a bare conversation while I was waiting on someone.Two day's later she showed up at my door school books and baggage to walk right in,I told her to get back in her car and go home I already had a roomie,then shut the door.Some people are just to dersprate.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

This struck me as something significant. In the original post, the scenario was of an acquaintance, and many posts since then have touched on the possibility that an acquaintance might not know enough about Person A to know if she's hurt or over her ex. I think what you said above also brings up the point that everyone's definition of "doing harm" might vary. Many of the posts here stated that flirting is just that... flirting...and therefore, harmless. It isn't dating, it isn't having sex, it's flirting. To others that's a cardinal sin. So, I guess my point is that everything is relative and subjective. Someone not adhering to the "femme code" may not be acting out of malice, but out of a place that flirting is harmless.

Bouncing off this....The significant difference would be if you have very VERY close femme friends or butch friends or whatever ID tight, "chosen family" friends, would know what line to not cross. I know *my* special chosen ones would as well as they know i would.

If it is an acquaintance, i believe, all bets are off. They wouldn't know the situation at all and it's not my responsibility to tell them nor is it theirs to steer clear if they don't want to. Femme or not femme. I figure things all come out in the wash eventually anyway. The peeps close to us know what went wrong to begin with, most of the time, and as others have said, would most likely steer clear.

Even with light flirting, there is a fine line that is never crossed with my select few of tighties. It's just respect for their relationships as well as respect for my own. It's not anything some of us would even have to think about...it's just natural.

But, kidding around flirting? Of course we do it sometimes. It's all in fun...again, boundaries, respect. It's not complicated.

That's how i feel about it anyway.

[Talon]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

This struck me as something significant. In the original post, the scenario was of an acquaintance, and many posts since then have touched on the possibility that an acquaintance might not know enough about Person A to know if she's hurt or over her ex. I think what you said above also brings up the point that everyone's definition of "doing harm" might vary. Many of the posts here stated that flirting is just that... flirting...and therefore, harmless. It isn't dating, it isn't having sex, it's flirting. To others that's a cardinal sin. So, I guess my point is that everything is relative and subjective. Someone not adhering to the "femme code" may not be acting out of malice, but out of a place that flirting is harmless.

>Well of course, we're all unique beings (obviously), so everything is ultimately subjective according to one's individual perspective, as well as their own personal life experiences.

I was asked my opinion, therefore I gave it.

Yeah, I actually *do* know what flirting is.

And sure, sometimes it is indeed harmless...but not always...and I think that most people can understand the difference between the two.

I also was not aware that "others" thought harmless flirting was a "CARDINAL SIN".

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Talon

>Well of course, we're all unique beings (obviously), so everything is ultimately subjective according to one's individual perspective, as well as their own personal life experiences.

I was asked my opinion, therefore I gave it.

Yeah, I actually *do* know what flirting is.

And sure, sometimes it is indeed harmless...but not always...and I think that most people can understand the difference between the two.

I also was not aware that "others" thought harmless flirting was a "CARDINAL SIN".

Talon, your post sounds as if it's coming from a defensive place. My post was a compliment to your statement, which I felt was positively significant, and important enough to expand upon. The rest of what I said in my post was not directed at you, or about you. I'm sorry you took it that way and felt the need to respond as such.

[Talon]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

Talon, your post sounds as if it's coming from a defensive place. My post was a compliment to your statement, which I felt was positively significant, and important enough to expand upon. The rest of what I said in my post was not directed at you, or about you. I'm sorry you took it that way and felt the need to respond as such.

I didn't think that it was directed towards me personally, and I'm sorry that you felt that I was acting defensive towards you. But, I don't understand how you would even know how I was taking something. After all, this is an on-line forum, and you and I don't even know each other.
So please don't be sorry, because I didn't take your post as..anything like you seem to think I did.
If my east coast bluntness came across a little too harsh in my last post..it was not intended.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by Talon

I didn't think that it was directed towards me personally, and I'm sorry that you felt that I was acting defensive towards you. But, I don't understand how you would even know how I was taking something. After all, this is an on-line forum, and you and I don't even know each other.
So please don't be sorry, because I didn't take your post as..anything like you seem to think I did.
If my east coast bluntness came across a little too harsh in my last post..it was not intended.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've been involved in online forums with hundreds of people I don't know. I don't need to *know* someone to interpret what their words mean *to me*. I was very careful in writing that it *sounded* as if your post was coming from a defensive place. Obviously, I was wrong. But at no time did I imply to *know* how you were taking something, nor did I state or feel that you were acting defensive toward me. Normally I wouldn't bother to make these small points but I don't like being misunderstood any more than anyone else does.

[gaea]

I have been reading the last few pages wow how one topic can pose so many different questions....So I have one of my own now this is theoretical and or hypothetical so keep that in mind and I will use letters to represent person's...

Persons A & B are in a relationship that lasts less than 1 year and they break up.

Person A begins dating several people up to an including sex etc.

Person B is seen at a party flirting with Person C who does not know person A at all

so here is my question

Does person C owe "femme" code to person A because they happen to be at the same party? if so why?

Does person A at any time owe anything to person B?

Considering Person A is dating/flirting/ having sexual relations with another and or many others.

Who owes what to whom in this scenario and why?