What is Forgiveness?

JustJo · 11-07-2012, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UofMfan

This article, for the most part, expresses how I feel about forgiveness.

Don't Ask Me for Forgiveness!

Quote:

Originally Posted by deedarino

I love this article...I have always called it forgiveness but sometimes that word just sticks in my throat.

I know acceptance. I can accept that others are just who they are. That they have their own road to travel and how they touch others along their path is their journey, not mine. I can also accept that this person isn't right for my path and move on.

Forgiveness is saved for those who seek it out, who truly work to find it. Who seek true amends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Anya*

Yes, this.

Acceptance is different than forgiveness.

It is what it is.

I can not change the outcome. I so wish that it were different but do not have the power to change it.

I accept.

Exactly! Thank you for sharing this article UofM. I had never seen it or heard of this approach and it's absolutely how I feel.

I have never been able to tolerate the idea of forgiving people who have done nothing to deserve it, and who continue to behave in ways that hurt others.

I know I'm pretty much a black and white thinker (and I'm okay with that)....but my reaction has always been "oh hell no." I totally get the idea of acceptance and making peace with what happened so that the injured party can move forward....but I do not support the free ride that total forgiveness gives to those who hurt and keep on hurting without remorse and change.

Sun · 11-13-2012, 01:30 PM

For me forgiveness is a vehicle to my own inner peace and happiness.

I want to share this meditation that I have found helpful:

Practicing Metta: Loving Kindness

If anyone has harmed me, intentionally, or unintentionally by word, thought or deed, may I forgive them.

If I have harmed anyone, intentionally or unintentionally, by word, thought or deed, may they forgive me.

If I have harmed myself, intentionally or unintentionally, by word, thought or deed, may I forgive myself.

Gráinne · 11-13-2012, 02:09 PM

Forgiveness for me is something I do for myself.

It's acknowledging that something shitty happened, that it was wrong, and then getting to a point of letting go of the anger and hurt.

When I was dealing with some things that had to be forgiven, I got alone out in a park somewhere and wrote a huge letter, nothing held back. I stayed out there all day. Then I tore it up and literally let it all go into the trashbin.

That doesn't mean that I forget, or that I allow myself to just be abused and forgive them anyway. I got to a point where I had to let go for my own inner health, but be smart enough and love myself enough not to allow them to do that to me again.

DamonK · 11-13-2012, 02:44 PM

Funny this is showing up today.

For me, forgiveness is a fantastic thing and a bitter thing.

I recently had to find a way to forgive a family member. Like the article UofM posted, the offender offered apologies, started making amends. This one amend allowed me to mostly forgive. Can I entirely? Right now, no. The wounds inflicted were too deep. Did it allow me to begin to move on and heal? Yes. Was trust broken? Somewhat. Not entirely.
Forgiveness... I find it to be necessary as part of life. It's not for the other person. That person has to work for it. I can choose to rise above the issue that caused the rift and drown, or find a way to forgive and rebuild the rift.

That is for serious situations.

Now, say my best friend and I have a squabble. Either she or I may ask for forgiveness of the other. It just shows, hey, we got this, we are just fine.

Nat · 12-27-2012, 03:21 AM

Yesterday I happened upon a podcast with a different interpretation of forgiveness than I'd heard before. It was on one of "Ariel's DCW Lectures" called "Dynamic Healing."

"I was raised Catholic, and I know that because of Adam and Eve, I am guilty. That's the way I was taught, and that's the way it's gonna be and the only way to get forgiveness is by groveling. And the only way to forgive another is by 2 ways - you can either - from a fundamentalist perspective - say, 'Well, you're bad, but I'm saved now, so I will forgive you,' and put yourself up there and them down here. Or you can say, 'Oh well, we're all rotten, miserable sinners, so it doesn't matter.' And so you're all down here.

But what real true forgiveness is, once you start following your heart and following that peaceful place every day - real true forgiveness is none of that. Real true forgiveness is being able to see past all that other stuff, to see right into the heart of who that other person really is - they aren't their past mistakes, they aren't their temper tantrum, they aren't their disease, the aren't their resume, they are not their body - they aren't any of those things. What they are is a child of the universe, a child of love.

And what you're here to do - the only purpose that you're here is to teach love to them. Not talk love to them. Not beat them over the head with your philosophy. Not lecture at them. But to love them. And it's a silent thing - they don't even have to know you're doing it... In fact, the work is much more potent to do this work internally and keep your mouth shut.
...
Being loving doesn't mean you're enabling people's behavior or that you let people treat you however they want to treat you - that's not being loving. If somebody is treating you in a way that is unloving, 'A Course in Miracles' would say they are calling out for love. They aren't being bad - they are being frightened. It will manifest in all kinds of hideous ways. Condemnation of them is not the answer, but it's also not the answer to enable that behavior. So, oftentimes, 'No,' is the loving response.
...
Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean you have to have lunch with them. Just because you forgive an abusive parent doesn't mean you have to engage in a conversation with them necessarily."

Anyway, I thought I'd post it because I found it worth considering enough to write down. There are elements I like in what he said. I don't know that I accept all of it, but I do like the idea of looking past a person's mistakes and bad behavior and seeing them - if nothing else - as a person. Loving is another matter, which seems pretty broadly defined up there, though I like that he said that 'oftentimes 'no' is the loving response.' And I like that he said the work is often best done in silence. I guess every once in a while, a person may benefit from knowing you forgive them but I don't think that's the point of forgiveness.

Miss Scarlett · 12-27-2012, 05:53 AM

To me forgiveness brings inner peace and balance. It's not always easy and not always immediate but for me it is necessary and brings about personal growth. No matter what has happened I ask myself "What can I learn from this?" The answers can be surprising and/or upsetting but I prefer to find and embrace the positive in all things.

Ms. Meander · 12-27-2012, 05:53 AM

I have recently experienced forgiveness in a new way. Because I am a being of love and light who is in a process of empowerment and release, all sorts of things are being swept out of my dark corners.

My mother is still married to the man who abused me my entire childhood. She has never acknowledged the abuse, let alone apologized for any part of it. After more than a decade of not seeing her or speaking to her I decided to be open when she showed up in my life again last summer. Why? Because I love her. Because I know she loves me. Because I love myself well enough now that I can give us both the gift of compassion without it taking anything away from me to do it. I asked myself how can this be okay with me? And I realized that I have forgiven her everything that has gone before and I forgive her for still being a sad, lost soul. My expectations are minimal. I've changed myself in relation to this relationship. I am the strong, loving, wise one here.

Most certainly there is some sort of reckoning on the horizon, whether we come to it together or I go it alone. But I feel we have a chance at a meaningful exchange because I already forgive her and I come in the spirit of love and compassion. I could be disappointed or saddened, but I can not be injured by this situation anymore. It is the greatest gift I have ever given myself.

Ms. Meander · 12-27-2012, 06:11 AM

Forgiveness = Self Love

homoe · 10-29-2015, 06:16 PM

I CAN forgive but I will NEVER forget! I mean we study history so we don't make the same mistakes twice right?

11-13-2012, 01:30 PM	#2
Sun Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Trans Preferred Pronoun?: He, him, his Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 1,775 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,557 Thanked 5,551 Times in 1,456 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	For me forgiveness is a vehicle to my own inner peace and happiness. I want to share this meditation that I have found helpful: Practicing Metta: Loving Kindness If anyone has harmed me, intentionally, or unintentionally by word, thought or deed, may I forgive them. If I have harmed anyone, intentionally or unintentionally, by word, thought or deed, may they forgive me. If I have harmed myself, intentionally or unintentionally, by word, thought or deed, may I forgive myself. __________________ “Lovers don't finally meet somewhere. They're in each other all along.” ― Rumi

11-13-2012, 02:09 PM	#3
Gráinne Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Neither, nada, out of the box Preferred Pronoun?: My name always works Relationship Status: Happy whatever happens Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Little Rock Posts: 1,864 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,118 Thanked 7,386 Times in 1,457 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	Forgiveness for me is something I do for myself. It's acknowledging that something shitty happened, that it was wrong, and then getting to a point of letting go of the anger and hurt. When I was dealing with some things that had to be forgiven, I got alone out in a park somewhere and wrote a huge letter, nothing held back. I stayed out there all day. Then I tore it up and literally let it all go into the trashbin. That doesn't mean that I forget, or that I allow myself to just be abused and forgive them anyway. I got to a point where I had to let go for my own inner health, but be smart enough and love myself enough not to allow them to do that to me again. __________________ The odds of going to the store for a loaf of bread and coming out with only a loaf of bread are three billion to one. ~Erma Bombeck

12-27-2012, 03:21 AM	#5
Nat Senior Member How Do You Identify?: bigender (DID System) Preferred Pronoun?: he/him or alter-specific Relationship Status: Unavailable Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Central TX Posts: 3,537 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,047 Thanked 13,968 Times in 2,589 Posts Rep Power: 21474855	Yesterday I happened upon a podcast with a different interpretation of forgiveness than I'd heard before. It was on one of "Ariel's DCW Lectures" called "Dynamic Healing." "I was raised Catholic, and I know that because of Adam and Eve, I am guilty. That's the way I was taught, and that's the way it's gonna be and the only way to get forgiveness is by groveling. And the only way to forgive another is by 2 ways - you can either - from a fundamentalist perspective - say, 'Well, you're bad, but I'm saved now, so I will forgive you,' and put yourself up there and them down here. Or you can say, 'Oh well, we're all rotten, miserable sinners, so it doesn't matter.' And so you're all down here. But what real true forgiveness is, once you start following your heart and following that peaceful place every day - real true forgiveness is none of that. Real true forgiveness is being able to see past all that other stuff, to see right into the heart of who that other person really is - they aren't their past mistakes, they aren't their temper tantrum, they aren't their disease, the aren't their resume, they are not their body - they aren't any of those things. What they are is a child of the universe, a child of love. And what you're here to do - the only purpose that you're here is to teach love to them. Not talk love to them. Not beat them over the head with your philosophy. Not lecture at them. But to love them. And it's a silent thing - they don't even have to know you're doing it... In fact, the work is much more potent to do this work internally and keep your mouth shut. ... Being loving doesn't mean you're enabling people's behavior or that you let people treat you however they want to treat you - that's not being loving. If somebody is treating you in a way that is unloving, 'A Course in Miracles' would say they are calling out for love. They aren't being bad - they are being frightened. It will manifest in all kinds of hideous ways. Condemnation of them is not the answer, but it's also not the answer to enable that behavior. So, oftentimes, 'No,' is the loving response. ... Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean you have to have lunch with them. Just because you forgive an abusive parent doesn't mean you have to engage in a conversation with them necessarily." Anyway, I thought I'd post it because I found it worth considering enough to write down. There are elements I like in what he said. I don't know that I accept all of it, but I do like the idea of looking past a person's mistakes and bad behavior and seeing them - if nothing else - as a person. Loving is another matter, which seems pretty broadly defined up there, though I like that he said that 'oftentimes 'no' is the loving response.' And I like that he said the work is often best done in silence. I guess every once in a while, a person may benefit from knowing you forgive them but I don't think that's the point of forgiveness. __________________ I'm a fountain of blood. In the shape of a girl. - Bjork What is to give light must endure burning. -Viktor Frankl

12-27-2012, 05:53 AM	#7
Ms. Meander Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Queer Femme Relationship Status: Ethical Nonmonogamist Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Mountains Posts: 1,520 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,706 Thanked 5,211 Times in 1,147 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	I have recently experienced forgiveness in a new way. Because I am a being of love and light who is in a process of empowerment and release, all sorts of things are being swept out of my dark corners. My mother is still married to the man who abused me my entire childhood. She has never acknowledged the abuse, let alone apologized for any part of it. After more than a decade of not seeing her or speaking to her I decided to be open when she showed up in my life again last summer. Why? Because I love her. Because I know she loves me. Because I love myself well enough now that I can give us both the gift of compassion without it taking anything away from me to do it. I asked myself how can this be okay with me? And I realized that I have forgiven her everything that has gone before and I forgive her for still being a sad, lost soul. My expectations are minimal. I've changed myself in relation to this relationship. I am the strong, loving, wise one here. Most certainly there is some sort of reckoning on the horizon, whether we come to it together or I go it alone. But I feel we have a chance at a meaningful exchange because I already forgive her and I come in the spirit of love and compassion. I could be disappointed or saddened, but I can not be injured by this situation anymore. It is the greatest gift I have ever given myself. __________________ My wish for you is that you continue. Continue to be who and how you are, to astonish a mean world with your acts of kindness. Continue to allow humor to lighten the burden of your tender heart. - Maya Angelou

12-27-2012, 06:11 AM	#8
Ms. Meander Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Queer Femme Relationship Status: Ethical Nonmonogamist Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Mountains Posts: 1,520 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,706 Thanked 5,211 Times in 1,147 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	In short: Forgiveness = Self Love __________________ My wish for you is that you continue. Continue to be who and how you are, to astonish a mean world with your acts of kindness. Continue to allow humor to lighten the burden of your tender heart. - Maya Angelou

11-13-2012, 02:44 PM	#4
DamonK Senior Member How Do You Identify?: . Preferred Pronoun?: . Relationship Status: . Join Date: May 2010 Location: . Posts: 2,199 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,527 Thanked 7,762 Times in 1,881 Posts Rep Power: 21474854	Funny this is showing up today. For me, forgiveness is a fantastic thing and a bitter thing. I recently had to find a way to forgive a family member. Like the article UofM posted, the offender offered apologies, started making amends. This one amend allowed me to mostly forgive. Can I entirely? Right now, no. The wounds inflicted were too deep. Did it allow me to begin to move on and heal? Yes. Was trust broken? Somewhat. Not entirely. Forgiveness... I find it to be necessary as part of life. It's not for the other person. That person has to work for it. I can choose to rise above the issue that caused the rift and drown, or find a way to forgive and rebuild the rift. That is for serious situations. Now, say my best friend and I have a squabble. Either she or I may ask for forgiveness of the other. It just shows, hey, we got this, we are just fine.

12-27-2012, 05:53 AM	#6
Miss Scarlett Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Relationship Status: . Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: . Posts: 5,530 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 4,478 Thanked 12,947 Times in 3,419 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	To me forgiveness brings inner peace and balance. It's not always easy and not always immediate but for me it is necessary and brings about personal growth. No matter what has happened I ask myself "What can I learn from this?" The answers can be surprising and/or upsetting but I prefer to find and embrace the positive in all things.

10-29-2015, 06:16 PM	#9
homoe Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Butch Relationship Status: ..... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: 30 minute ferry ride from Seattle Posts: 38,565 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 20,811 Thanked 33,548 Times in 14,914 Posts Rep Power: 21474889	I CAN forgive but I will NEVER forget! I mean we study history so we don't make the same mistakes twice right?