"Stud" versus "Butch"

[The_Lady_Snow]

People, don't like doing their own research when it comes to cultural differences, it's expected that the answers are handed to them quietly. I can't count how many times when cultural differences come up that the bully/silencing deflection comes up when POC refuse to do the leg work for those who want answers. Unless it handed to them(general)
they're not going to learn it on their own. It's not a POC's job to educate not only the white folk out in the real world, here on BFP and certainly not over a video of a white kid from SANTA BARBARA spewing her appropriations. It really isn't yet it's EXPECTED. Do your homework folks, don't expect others to do it for you.

Originally Posted by Chancie

I am quoting myself to ask a question.

Why does it seem critical or silencing to suggest a resource for information?

I'm curious why it's a bad thing to do a little research.

I know that I don't especially think, The Internet, right or wrong, but

Why wouldn't someone want to concern themselves with a range of ideas?

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

People, don't like doing their own research when it comes to cultural differences, it's expected that the answers are handed to them quietly. I can't count how many times when cultural differences come up that the bully/silencing deflection comes up when POC refuse to do the leg work for those who want answers. Unless it handed to them(general)
they're not going to learn it on their own. It's not a POC's job to educate not only the white folk out in the real world, here on BFP and certainly not over a video of a white kid from SANTA BARBARA spewing her appropriations. It really isn't yet it's EXPECTED. Do your homework folks, don't expect others to do it for you.

In reference to this particular thread, the question wasn't about cultural differences- the OP was looking for the source of the different use in terms. It wasn't until a few of us answered "it's a cultural thing" that it became a discussion about culture. The problem I have with the point of view that people should "educate themselves" is that it presumes people know which sources are "good" sources. Everyone who writes a book thinks its good and real and true information, so how does someone who doesn't know anything about that subject know if they are reading good, real, and true information? Speaking for myself, I'd rather go to someone I know or a community I am familiar with and ask questions than to read articles on the Internet, or books, and try to figure out what's real and what's bullshit. If someone were researching discrimination in education, do you think all of the available research materials would point them in a clear and defined direction that would be in the same direction of people's experiences and opinions of this community? Some would and some woudn't, so that takes them back to square one. I'm for *helping* people become educated; I don't expect them to do it on their own.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Sad truth is, that POC aren't running to join BFP or they aren't willing to share their experiences and culture and words they use because of stuff like this. The last You Tube that was posted as a I'm not really sure why is certainly not going to feel welcoming to folks who do identify as these cultural terms. It just isn't. The shame on you for not taking time to educate us more thing gets old. I know I get tired of it, because frankly QoS, we have come in here and helped define, explain and put out there what Studs. Aggressives. Macha culture is. It took one You Tube from some kid from Santa Barbara of all places to turn this back into give the white folk a break, why aren't you educating them. That girl on that video isn't going to be educated, she said it herself, it's how she sees it and fuck the rest of ya'll if you disagree.


What's the point in putting in a shit ton of time explaining over and over what the terms are and the cultural back ground when all of a sudden some white kid comes in and spews all kinds of shit and now we have to stop, educate, and take a step back because she's 18 and young?


That girl isn't going to make room for me as a Woman of Color in the world, why am I having to for her, a person I don't even know, a person like all the other persons out in the real world that I am having to make room for because they aren't educated on cultural terms, people, lives.


That's where I am coming from as in do your damn homework on your own, it's really a waste of time to even type it out because people just don't.


Nobody educated me on other peoples, I took the time and I educated myself on how to maneuver around all the other cultures around me at all times.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Sad truth is, that POC aren't running to join BFP or they aren't willing to share their experiences and culture and words they use because of stuff like this. The last You Tube that was posted as a I'm not really sure why is certainly not going to feel welcoming to folks who do identify as these cultural terms. It just isn't. The shame on you for not taking time to educate us more thing gets old. I know I get tired of it, because frankly QoS, we have come in here and helped define, explain and put out there what Studs. Aggressives. Macha culture is. It took one You Tube from some kid from Santa Barbara of all places to turn this back into give the white folk a break, why aren't you educating them. That girl on that video isn't going to be educated, she said it herself, it's how she sees it and fuck the rest of ya'll if you disagree.


What's the point in putting in a shit ton of time explaining over and over what the terms are and the cultural back ground when all of a sudden some white kid comes in and spews all kinds of shit and now we have to stop, educate, and take a step back because she's 18 and young?


That girl isn't going to make room for me as a Woman of Color in the world, why am I having to for her, a person I don't even know, a person like all the other persons out in the real world that I am having to make room for because they aren't educated on cultural terms, people, lives.


That's where I am coming from as in do your damn homework on your own, it's really a waste of time to even type it out because people just don't.


Nobody educated me on other peoples, I took the time and I educated myself on how to maneuver around all the other cultures around me at all times.

Thank you for sharing all of this, and I know it's come up in many threads before. I want to be very clear about one thing though - I am not coming from a "shame on you" place, *at all*. I get what you're saying - frankly there were times I felt the same way about educating people about the queer community, it can be exhausting. But what I'm afraid of is that if we *don't* step up and take the opportunity to educate someone who is asking for answers, he or she will get their "education" from people like we saw in that fucked up video. I agree that some people can never be freed from their ignorance, no matter how hard you try, but there are clearly others who really do want to understand, and I just hate to see those opportunities wasted. I'm not saying we should spoon feed all of the information, but we can at least provide some resources and be a resource ourselves.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

Thank you for sharing all of this, and I know it's come up in many threads before. I want to be very clear about one thing though - I am not coming from a "shame on you" place, *at all*. I get what you're saying - frankly there were times I felt the same way about educating people about the queer community, it can be exhausting. But what I'm afraid of is that if we *don't* step up and take the opportunity to educate someone who is asking for answers, he or she will get their "education" from people like we saw in that fucked up video. I agree that some people can never be freed from their ignorance, no matter how hard you try, but there are clearly others who really do want to understand, and I just hate to see those opportunities wasted. I'm not saying we should spoon feed all of the information, but we can at least provide some resources and be a resource ourselves.

QoS there were plenty of posts that were educational for the OP, she even stated so. The last You Tube video wasn't conducive to the conversation that had been had.

All it did was stir up up shit. Then when there was a WTF response by me I was taken to task for reacting in the manner I did, mind you I was not the ONLY one that was like WTF, yet I am the one singled out because of my WTF matter of fact I got accused of bullying.

So at this point it's tiring to continue to have to put in any more effort, because every fucking time I do someone, somewhere, and they are generally white come an tell me I am to LOUD, TO AGGRESSIVE, I'm a BULLY it goes on and on and on.


I don't care how the convo goes now, it isn't like anyone is going to listen anyway to what Stud, Aggressives, Machas are.

It's obvious.

I'm not as patient as you

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

QoS there were plenty of posts that were educational for the OP, she even stated so.

I agree, and that is sort of what my point was. There WERE posts (replies to her question) that helped to educate her; I'm all for that.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

The last You Tube video wasn't conducive to the conversation that had been had.

Agreed, although I think it *could have* had some value to the discussion if there had been some narrative to go along with it from the poster, like "And then we have this kind of crap.... obviously this girl needs some education on the larger GLBTQ community!" It could have been used as an example of what goes wrong when people are NOT educated.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

All it did was stir up up shit. Then when there was a WTF response by me I was taken to task for reacting in the manner I did, mind you I was not the ONLY one that was like WTF, yet I am the one singled out because of my WTF matter of fact I got accused of bullying

So at this point it's tiring to continue to have to put in any more effort, because every fucking time I do someone, somewhere, and they are generally white come an tell me I am to LOUD, TO AGGRESSIVE, I'm a BULLY it goes on and on and on.

Trust me, as someone who has gotten her fair share of "you're a bitch" because I speak my mind, I know it gets old, and it can derail us from saying what we really want to say.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I don't care how the convo goes now, it isn't like anyone is going to listen anyway to what Stud, Aggressives, Machas are. It's obvious.

I disagree. I think people are listening/reading, and I think your contributions to the thread were received in different ways by different people - that's par for the course, but I still think it's valuable.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I'm not as patient as you

You caught me on a good day

[Martina]

Cultural appropriation happens no matter how we feel about it. We can get institutions to change the names of their sports teams, but we can't change the way young people talk.

People have always appropriated the African American culture. Some African-American kids push back. There was a BIG argument in my class once between, in this case, Latinos and African-Americans about the use of the n-word. Partly because it is such a nasty pejorative. But also because it's an appropriation. African-American kids were saying why do you have to try to sound like us. Latino kids were saying, we aren't. We sound like us.

One Latino kid acknowledged that it was an appropriation and added he had never seen African American kids adopt the words, music or fashion of Latinos (I have), but that Latinos did it all the time. He had internalized this as Latino cultures being backward and unworthy of appropriation ( ). It was an interesting conversation. Anyway kids are aware they are appropriating all the time and have different feelings about it.

I do think that white people need to be more careful, but it's nearly impossible to police the language, clothing, music, and well. . . just the behavior of teenagers.

I take the girl in the video seriously as a lesbian. I don't discredit her as a queer. As a white person, I wish she at least acknowledged that the term was taken from other cultures, that she and her friends are white and are using it the way they do. But in a way that's self-evident.

Is she an obnoxious privileged white girl? For sure. Is she also using language and living as queer in a completely real and authentic way for her? Without a doubt.