Unconditional Love... is it really unconditional?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by key

This is a topic I wrestle with daily.

This question of unconditional love, especially in regards to family members.

I am from a fundamental Christian family. I have 8 brothers and sisters, two of which, in my opinion, would be gay if they were not so...fundamentally Christian. Or to put it another way, are gay and would allow themselves to be themselves if they were not so fundamentally Christian.

So every year 2-3 times I make the pilgrimage to my home, to visit my ailing mother and to visit with (for my mothers sake) my siblings, their spouses and their children, sum total about 35 (honestly I've lost count - I just see one gigantic carbon footprint)

And every time, after every pilgrimage, I come back twisted up inside because we all tell each other that we love each other, but....well...how can they love me? When they do not hold a vision of me of even being okay in the eyes of "God." How can I love them, knowing what they believe to be true about me?
I have not fully answered this question. I try to love them and I believe that they are trying to love me. Perhaps we are all loving each other to best of our abilities. Isn't that all we ever do for one another? Is there ever such a thing as unconditional love...really?

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

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I've been thinking about this myself as well. What is unconditional love, really? Can it *really* exist. I want to say yes, but I'm not sure I can...

I think to myself that I love people in my life unconditionally...but what if one of them became a drug addict and stole from me? Or killed someone? Or???

Could I unconditionally love someone who betrayed me so much?

I posted in another thread about a colleague who had been reconnecting with her faith and questioning heaven and hell. Her pastor's wife was explaining that they believe if you do not live a Christian life, that you go to hell. So basically all my colleague's friends, whom she loved, based on this belief, were going to hell. She could not reconcile this.

So I think about your family...they love you I am sure, but in their eyes, you are committing a huge sin, I imagine. And you love them, even though they think you are not okay...

It's challenging.

Hi Key and SassyLeo.

Key, I too grew up in a Fundamentalist Christian household. My parents truly, truly, truly worry about my eternal life. They worry that I may go to hell. For them, the way one gets to heaven is [believing that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and accepting him as your Lord and Savior.]. You do not get to heaven by good works. You do not get to heaven by being a nice guy, a good mother, a good partner, and a good friend. You get to heaven through the above, just as SassyLeo's colleague was told. The expectation is that you will have a "relationship" with God/Jesus and live your life according to his Word (Bible).

The version of the Bible my parents use says that homosexuality is a sin. Now, under their church's teaching, you don't go to hell for sinning, your go for not accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. However, things get kind of sticky around the sin part b/c the assumption is that if you are choosing to do a habitual sin (sleep with the same sex and plan on repeating it), than one could theoretically question if a person is really a Christian b/c if you were a Christian you would not want to sin against God. Therefore, since I sleep with someone of the same sex, I must not (at minimum) have the "right kind" of relationship with God, so it calls into question if I will make it into heaven or not. Still with me? lol

My parents are worried about this...I mean WORRIED. They love their kid. And I truly believe that they love me unconditionally. I think that it is possible to love someone unconditionally (especially for a parent...well, this is what it seems like anyway but, I am not a parent). They are just freaked out about it. Have they wanted to meet my partners in the past? Well, I can't say that they were excited about it, but always responded with a yes to meeting them. Have I explained to them that it is important that if I have someone who looks to be a long term partner that they need to accept her and our relationship? Yep. Have they tried in this regard over the past few years? Yep.

But, do they still think that I am probably going to hell and do I think they most likely pray that I will become straight? Yep. Do I think that they "love me unconditionally"? Yep. I see it in soooo many ways, just too many times to discount.

So, Key, for me, my parents concern for my eternal life and their belief that I am sinning does not mean to me that they don't love me. In this case, it means that maybe they love me too much. If they didn't it wouldn't tear them up inside and it wouldn't "cause [my] father to pace the floors at night" (Yeah mom, thanks for THAT guilt! You get away with saying that ONCE!).

So no, their belief system does not impact their ability and natural inclination of unconditional love for me.

Side note: My parents are in no way, in your face, bible thumpers. They just do their thing and if someone asked them about their "thing", they would be happy to share it with them.

Side, side note: Damn, I never expected that I would ever share this much about my family and how their religion impacts things (and me) on a web site.

[SassyLeo]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

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Hi Key and SassyLeo.

Key, I too grew up in a Fundamentalist Christian household. My parents truly, truly, truly worry about my eternal life. They worry that I may go to hell. For them, the way one gets to heaven is [believing that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and accepting him as your Lord and Savior.]. You do not get to heaven by good works. You do not get to heaven by being a nice guy, a good mother, a good partner, and a good friend. You get to heaven through the above, just as SassyLeo's colleague was told. The expectation is that you will have a "relationship" with God/Jesus and live your life according to his Word (Bible).

The version of the Bible my parents use says that homosexuality is a sin. Now, under their church's teaching, you don't go to hell for sinning, your go for not accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. However, things get kind of sticky around the sin part b/c the assumption is that if you are choosing to do a habitual sin (sleep with the same sex and plan on repeating it), than one could theoretically question if a person is really a Christian b/c if you were a Christian you would not want to sin against God. Therefore, since I sleep with someone of the same sex, I must not (at minimum) have the "right kind" of relationship with God, so it calls into question if I will make it into heaven or not. Still with me? lol

My parents are worried about this...I mean WORRIED. They love their kid. And I truly believe that they love me unconditionally. I think that it is possible to love someone unconditionally (especially for a parent...well, this is what it seems like anyway but, I am not a parent). They are just freaked out about it. Have they wanted to meet my partners in the past? Well, I can't say that they were excited about it, but always responded with a yes to meeting them. Have I explained to them that it is important that if I have someone who looks to be a long term partner that they need to accept her and our relationship? Yep. Have they tried in this regard over the past few years? Yep.

But, do they still think that I am probably going to hell and do I think they most likely pray that I will become straight? Yep. Do I think that they "love me unconditionally"? Yep. I see it in soooo many ways, just too many times to discount.

So, Key, for me, my parents concern for my eternal life and their belief that I am sinning does not mean to me that they don't love me. In this case, it means that maybe they love me too much. If they didn't it wouldn't tear them up inside and it wouldn't "cause [my] father to pace the floors at night" (Yeah mom, thanks for THAT guilt! You get away with saying that ONCE!).

So no, their belief system does not impact their ability and natural inclination of unconditional love for me.

Side note: My parents are in no way, in your face, bible thumpers. They just do their thing and if someone asked them about their "thing", they would be happy to share it with them.

Side, side note: Damn, I never expected that I would ever share this much about my family and how their religion impacts things (and me) on a web site.

Thank you for this perspective.

Because I don't subscribe to traditional Christian beliefs about Jesus, Lord and Savior, sinning, etc....I do not understand and have a huge challenge even trying to *get* these belief systems.

I can feel from your post that they do love you and are worried. from that heart/head space, I can grasp better.

Doesn't mean I'm joining the Christian masses obviously....but it helps to process it

[hippieflowergirl]

a few years ago i had a conversation with someone so much smarter than i could ever hope to be who said he thought our job in life was to enter into certain "unconditional contracts" with the Universe, contracts whose purpose was to teach us what we needed to know. the conversation took place over several days but when it was over i was hooked on his idea.

most days i suck at being part of humanity. i dont understand how it works or how to fit in. i dont always feel a connection to the contracts i chose (unconditional acceptance, unconditional forgiveness, and unconditional love) but it's not the choices themselves that make me uncomfortable. i do that all on my own by making countless mistakes. but i never feel like i can go wholly wrong if i hang on to my agreements...even if i'm hanging on by my fingernails.

i know people who dont think it's possible to live unconditionally but i think they mistake "unconditional" with being a door mat and/or with altruism. but i never said living unconditionally meant someone could walk all over me and i never said i didnt get anything out of it.

unconditional acceptance, forgiveness and love are the easiest things in the world. they're just choices. all of life is simple. it's the things we try to "do" rather than our efforts to just "be" that cause the confusion. and then it's easy to give up too.

maybe we just need to keep choosing...not just once a week or every day...but every minute...every breath.

(shrug) sorry i'm just rambling like an idiot. i'm tired.

i like the freedom my three contracts give me. i like how much less complicated life became once the choices were made. the one stumbling block i run into from time to time is applying that same acceptance, forgiveness and love to myself.

[KayCee]

I believe the greatest form of unconditional love is between mother and child.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by hippieflowergirl

a few years ago i had a conversation with someone so much smarter than i could ever hope to be who said he thought our job in life was to enter into certain "unconditional contracts" with the Universe, contracts whose purpose was to teach us what we needed to know. the conversation took place over several days but when it was over i was hooked on his idea.

most days i suck at being part of humanity. i dont understand how it works or how to fit in. i dont always feel a connection to the contracts i chose (unconditional acceptance, unconditional forgiveness, and unconditional love) but it's not the choices themselves that make me uncomfortable. i do that all on my own by making countless mistakes. but i never feel like i can go wholly wrong if i hang on to my agreements...even if i'm hanging on by my fingernails.

i know people who dont think it's possible to live unconditionally but i think they mistake "unconditional" with being a door mat and/or with altruism. but i never said living unconditionally meant someone could walk all over me and i never said i didnt get anything out of it.

unconditional acceptance, forgiveness and love are the easiest things in the world. they're just choices. all of life is simple. it's the things we try to "do" rather than our efforts to just "be" that cause the confusion. and then it's easy to give up too.

maybe we just need to keep choosing...not just once a week or every day...but every minute...every breath.

(shrug) sorry i'm just rambling like an idiot. i'm tired.

i like the freedom my three contracts give me. i like how much less complicated life became once the choices were made. the one stumbling block i run into from time to time is applying that same acceptance, forgiveness and love to myself.

oh wow - well put and honest. I feel like I am always struggling to keep that connection. Life sure has many lessons but even with this my ability to love only grows stronger.

we are human, however the question really is "are we conscious?" we all have days we go through the motions and sometimes its easier to ignore than deal with something. BUT you're right, considering our actions often, making it muscle memory, part of us, this clearly defines us. No matter how hard the truth is some humans are incapable of unconditional love. Its just something they can't wrap their heads around and probably not their fault.

love is a microcosmic evolution within us. our expression and the love we project feeds the collective. the moment we begin to understand this our world begins to open.

[Diva]

I have only known 1 person in my life who could love ANYone unconditionally.....that was my Mother.

I should BE so wise.

[Soft*Silver]

the only person on this earth I love inconditionally is my daughter. And she has seen fit to make me prove it over the years...laughing. From the moment that old soul was placed in my arms and I looked into the face that had just seen God, I knew I had nothing to give her. I was a woman spinning out of control in her life, drinking way too much, avoiding all the baggage from my past and was married to someone I didnt love. In her lake blue eyes I saw myself...and that Self of hers was so pure and divine, that I instantly resonated....

it took me many years to untangle the mess i was in but I did it. I did it to be worthy of being her parent. I wish I had done it before hand but honestly, I hadnt known that kind of love until she Saw me.

Now, it matters not how she behaves, or what she says, I love her. And she has done and said some pretty bad things over the years, but then again, sometimes I deserved it and other times, she just needed an emotional punching bag. I didnt stand to be that, and stepped out of the way, but I loved her regardless.

Now we have an incredible relationship. And her eyes are green now, not blue. But when I look into them I still see God and I see my connection there.

Loving someone unconditionally isnt about letting them treat you like a doormat. Its simply about loving them when and especially its the hardest time to love them...without losing yourself in the process..

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by softness

the only person on this earth I love inconditionally is my daughter. And she has seen fit to make me prove it over the years...laughing. From the moment that old soul was placed in my arms and I looked into the face that had just seen God, I knew I had nothing to give her. I was a woman spinning out of control in her life, drinking way too much, avoiding all the baggage from my past and was married to someone I didnt love. In her lake blue eyes I saw myself...and that Self of hers was so pure and divine, that I instantly resonated....

it took me many years to untangle the mess i was in but I did it. I did it to be worthy of being her parent. I wish I had done it before hand but honestly, I hadnt known that kind of love until she Saw me.

Now, it matters not how she behaves, or what she says, I love her. And she has done and said some pretty bad things over the years, but then again, sometimes I deserved it and other times, she just needed an emotional punching bag. I didnt stand to be that, and stepped out of the way, but I loved her regardless.

Now we have an incredible relationship. And her eyes are green now, not blue. But when I look into them I still see God and I see my connection there.

Loving someone unconditionally isnt about letting them treat you like a doormat. Its simply about loving them when and especially its the hardest time to love them...without losing yourself in the process..

OMG that made me cry. Our journey was close. My son is an adult now and we put each other through hell but we were always connected and very close today. It's hard for people to know that connection unless you're in it. Your desire to please you child no matter what. It's powerful beyond words.