Infidelity

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by I'mOneToo

I agree, it's a lifestyle that requires a lot of negotiation and discussion.

See and *I* think that any kind of relationship requires alot of negotiation, open communication, transparency and discussions.. I don't see how this only pertains to poly. All of my relationships be they friendships, lovers, friends, fuck buddies, one night stands, etc are going to be clear and open.. This to *me* leads to a happier time and well keeps things from turning into something ugly..

Now, not everyone can do this because for someone unknown reason, lying, playing games and smoke and mirrors sounds better than all the above... Why? I dunno guess we should look deep in the mirror and ask ourselves why...

[I'mOneToo]

Maybe I can rephrase or add to my comment and say, it requires a *specific* type of negotiation and openness. For all involved parties to be agreeable, it's negotiation x (however many) and some say, "the more the merrier" and other say, "sheesh I can't even keep up with one." It goes without saying for me, that without openness and communication, it's gonna fail. But when I fail, it's because I look the other way when I know goddamned well what's going on. That's my biggest failure. It's not consensual, it's not discussed, and it ends up festering. And what's my part in that? It's a weakness because I just let it beat me down until I give up. Instead of it being a love that lifts me up, it's a drain that saps my energy. Then I become less willing to lift the other in love, because I'm feeling cheated. It's a vicious circle.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

See and *I* think that any kind of relationship requires alot of negotiation, open communication, transparency and discussions.. I don't see how this only pertains to poly. All of my relationships be they friendships, lovers, friends, fuck buddies, one night stands, etc are going to be clear and open.. This to *me* leads to a happier time and well keeps things from turning into something ugly..

Now, not everyone can do this because for someone unknown reason, lying, playing games and smoke and mirrors sounds better than all the above... Why? I dunno guess we should look deep in the mirror and ask ourselves why...

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by I'mOneToo

Maybe I can rephrase or add to my comment and say, it requires a *specific* type of negotiation and openness. For all involved parties to be agreeable, it's negotiation x (however many) and some say, "the more the merrier" and other say, "sheesh I can't even keep up with one." It goes without saying for me, that without openness and communication, it's gonna fail. But when I fail, it's because I look the other way when I know goddamned well what's going on. That's my biggest failure. It's not consensual, it's not discussed, and it ends up festering. And what's my part in that? It's a weakness because I just let it beat me down until I give up. Instead of it being a love that lifts me up, it's a drain that saps my energy. Then I become less willing to lift the other in love, because I'm feeling cheated. It's a vicious circle.

*I* still do not feel like poly has or is a *specific* way of living, it's not like they have different rules, or guidelines.. What happens with good poly is what should happen in ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL relationship spectrums...


HONESTY


I mean really should we not be expecting that each time we start any relationship regardless of what it is??

I do....

[I'mOneToo]

I'm not disagreeing with you, maybe I'm not communicating it well. Because for me openness and communication are equivalent to honesty. What I tried to say is that in a poly situation, it is multiplied. that is the specificity (sp?) that I am referring to. Some people struggle with the keeping up with life, keeping up with people, just keeping up in general... not saying that a relationship should be allowed some slack, like "oh this is just my relationship, i can coast here". if you coast, that is when it slips away from you... ALL relationships can. sorry i'm not doing very well. when i write a post like the first one i did in here, it took an hour because i have to re-read the shit out of it so if it makes sense... writing this way without editing, it's like extemporaneous speaking for some. i will be smarter if i quit while i'm ahead!

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

*I* still do not feel like poly has or is a *specific* way of living, it's not like they have different rules, or guidelines.. What happens with good poly is what should happen in ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL relationship spectrums...


HONESTY


I mean really should we not be expecting that each time we start any relationship regardless of what it is??

I do....

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by I'mOneToo

I'm not disagreeing with you, maybe I'm not communicating it well. Because for me openness and communication are equivalent to honesty. What I tried to say is that in a poly situation, it is multiplied. that is the specificity (sp?) that I am referring to. Some people struggle with the keeping up with life, keeping up with people, just keeping up in general... not saying that a relationship should be allowed some slack, like "oh this is just my relationship, i can coast here". if you coast, that is when it slips away from you... ALL relationships can. sorry i'm not doing very well. when i write a post like the first one i did in here, it took an hour because i have to re-read the shit out of it so if it makes sense... writing this way without editing, it's like extemporaneous speaking for some. i will be smarter if i quit while i'm ahead!

How is it mulitplied??

I mean yes there are more than one person, but the same rules apply...
I am still not understanding how poly is different than any other, what I see here is for *you* poly has to much to keep up with, what I experience is no different you are open, honest, you communicate etc just like I do with say..

Superfemme my expectations with her or say Day are no different, I expect and have been clear about how it's gonna roll, and that is the same way as I described above..

So if we can handle all kinds of relationships with these kinds of expectations, why not the same with monogamy? or poly amory?

See what I am sayin?

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

How is it mulitplied??

I mean yes there are more than one person, but the same rules apply...
I am still not understanding how poly is different than any other, what I see here is for *you* poly has to much to keep up with, what I experience is no different you are open, honest, you communicate etc just like I do with say..

Superfemme my expectations with her or say Day are no different, I expect and have been clear about how it's gonna roll, and that is the same way as I described above..

So if we can handle all kinds of relationships with these kinds of expectations, why not the same with monogamy? or poly amory?

See what I am sayin?

Amen Ms.

[I'mOneToo]

yes the same rules apply. but if a casual acquaintance of mine or even a close friend isn't truthful with me, the impact isn't as high as if it was someone who is in a sexual relationship with me. if a person i'm having a sexual relationship isn't honest with me (or all of us, if there's a poly situation) it impacts everyone and can have negative consequences that would not apply if it was someone i wasn't fucking. so it's not that the expectation of honesty is higher, but the consequences can be greater when honesty doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

How is it mulitplied??

I mean yes there are more than one person, but the same rules apply...
I am still not understanding how poly is different than any other, what I see here is for *you* poly has to much to keep up with, what I experience is no different you are open, honest, you communicate etc just like I do with say..

Superfemme my expectations with her or say Day are no different, I expect and have been clear about how it's gonna roll, and that is the same way as I described above..

So if we can handle all kinds of relationships with these kinds of expectations, why not the same with monogamy? or poly amory?

See what I am sayin?

[Soft*Silver]

whether it is monogomy, poly, vanilla or leather, they all fall under the umbrella of relationships and all relationships need huge amounts of communication for them to properly work and not become dysfunctional.

When i am in gear to consider a relationship with someone, I teasingly bring up and joke about my "contract"...as we talk, if something pops up in our conversation that is distinct enough for me to know it matters and will matter even more if we keep going, I lay claim to putting it in the "contract".Now, there has not been an actual drafted contract, but you can ask anyone i have dated if I didnt do this. It gives them at least a visual that we arent sliding on past some important things.

communication...I agree with Lady Snow...is important in any kind of relationship....they are all as simple and as complex as you need make them..

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

See and *I* think that any kind of relationship requires alot of negotiation, open communication, transparency and discussions.. I don't see how this only pertains to poly. All of my relationships be they friendships, lovers, friends, fuck buddies, one night stands, etc are going to be clear and open.. This to *me* leads to a happier time and well keeps things from turning into something ugly..

Now, not everyone can do this because for someone unknown reason, lying, playing games and smoke and mirrors sounds better than all the above... Why? I dunno guess we should look deep in the mirror and ask ourselves why...

I think some people know themselves better than others...and are brave enough to look inside and make decisions that work for them, rather than what they think is expected.

Then there are other people who habitually cheat, hate themselves for it and act really badly and then lie to their partners and try to make them think they are crazy....but somehow to them this is better than just admitting that they should not be monogamous.

It seems so simple, but most people do not see it that way.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Women cheat just like men do. It isn't just one sided, and that is the impression I am getting reading this thread.

Nobody knows what happens in a relationship between a couple. That is between them. Alot of debate can go on about how their passion has fizzled, both are working long hours, one bought a new car while so and so needs one, then the kids, and on and on. All this is - is an educated guess. That is all it is. The truth lies with the couple. Maybe they have decided to part ways. Who's business is it? Not mine. Not yours. That is gossip. And it's wrong imho.

I think of the saying, and forgive me I am not sure of how it actually reads, but it is something along the lines like "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" aka it is payback time. That is not what life is about.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

Women cheat just like men do. It isn't just one sided, and that is the impression I am getting reading this thread.

Nobody knows what happens in a relationship between a couple. That is between them. Alot of debate can go on about how their passion has fizzled, both are working long hours, one bought a new car while so and so needs one, then the kids, and on and on. All this is - is an educated guess. That is all it is. The truth lies with the couple. Maybe they have decided to part ways. Who's business is it? Not mine. Not yours. That is gossip. And it's wrong imho.

I think of the saying, and forgive me I am not sure of how it actually reads, but it is something along the lines like "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" aka it is payback time. That is not what life is about.

Ummm. I think you may be reading something I am not? Just a thought.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Random

For me.. you hit it on the nail... It's the dishonesty, the lies.. It effects not only the pair bonding but your trust in yourself... How did I not see that this person was capible of this? How did I not see the signs.. Then there is the ever famous... *I know that xxxx loved me beyond words, I know that is true.. I would have bet my life that they would never lie to me.. Never willingly hurt me... If they could do this to me, being who they are, then how can I trust anyone ever to be honest with me again? How can I belive in a world where the only truth was a lie?*

It shifts your world view and changes who you are...

I know for me... It wasn't all bad.. It made me grow up and see the world as it is.. It made me aware, made me self reliant.. it turned me into someone who is mistress of her own house, her own heart... Lol.. It turned the princess into a Queen...

Exactly. The rose colored glasses come off and, for me, I haven't been the same. I've been made more aware like you, but haven't quite evolved to the point that I don't carry around that suspicion, though it is buried deep. And, it's not necessarily a 'he's going to cheat on me' thing. It's a general distrust of my partners, which of course, is not good in any situation.

Originally Posted by Random

I don't think this is always the case..

If someone is a serial cheater, then that is one thing... But I think at times, people just don't know how to remove themselves from relationships.. You know the entire.. *I don't want to hurt her* but the silly thing is.. It's going to hurt either way... In my mind.. do it quickly, do it bluntly, do it clean...

...like a Bandaid.

I do, however, believe once someone has traveled a road once, then that path is much easier to follow in the future. This applies to all aspects of our sordid human nature, not just infidelity.

Originally Posted by Linus

Agreed. I did have a partner who cheated on me and one who was already moving on before we broken up. That said, I believe that they are faithful to the partners they are with now and are happier. I had tried to resolve things with a partner who had cheated on me but I've found once it's done, it's hard to trust again. It is certainly my own issue (I'll admit to lingering trust and abandonment issues) but it's an issue nonetheless.

I find it frustrating in that if the person had spoken to me about whatever had caused them to stray we could have either resolved together to separate amicably or entered into a poly relationship (if all parties were inclined and opened for that).

Today, if it is happens, the existing relationship will be over and I'll be moving on. Given my previous experience and knowing myself I know it'll be better in the long run.

The cheating partner assumes they know the other so well that they make the decision of how things are going to progress for the couple. Maybe the other partner might have been open to an open relationship, with pro-safe sex parameters I'd hope, or polygamy. I really don't like it when my options or choices are taken away from me before I have been made aware of them.

Originally Posted by I'mOneToo

hmm has there ever been a case of same-sex decisions that are similar?

Highly unlikely, given that we don't have the right to marry or share custody in many states. Interesting thought, though.

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I should have stuck to the only four words that matter to me regarding cheating: I'll cut a bitch.

I love you.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

Women cheat just like men do. It isn't just one sided, and that is the impression I am getting reading this thread.

Nobody knows what happens in a relationship between a couple. That is between them. Alot of debate can go on about how their passion has fizzled, both are working long hours, one bought a new car while so and so needs one, then the kids, and on and on. All this is - is an educated guess. That is all it is. The truth lies with the couple. Maybe they have decided to part ways. Who's business is it? Not mine. Not yours. That is gossip. And it's wrong imho.

I think of the saying, and forgive me I am not sure of how it actually reads, but it is something along the lines like "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" aka it is payback time. That is not what life is about.

Both sexes cheat. What I am saying is that it is more honorable to break up first...or to just be poly in the first place.

I know every single person I mentioned in my posts is a woman. Not one single man.

But we don't have to agree.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Both sexes cheat. What I am saying is that it is more honorable to break up first...or to just be poly in the first place.

I know every single person I mentioned in my posts is a woman. Not one single man.

But we don't have to agree.

Butches cheat, Femmes cheat, in fact the only species that doesn't for sure I think is the goose. Shrug.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Butches cheat, Femmes cheat, in fact the only species that doesn't for sure I think is the goose. Shrug.

Good to know. If soemthing ever happens with Cynthia, I will keep transpecies dating in mind.

[little man]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Butches cheat, Femmes cheat, in fact the only species that doesn't for sure I think is the goose. Shrug.

and maybe penguins?

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by little man

and maybe penguins?

Wolves mate for life. I think dolphins do too.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by little man

and maybe penguins?

Penguins are monogamous for only one mating season.

[Andrew, Jr.]

It's funny you ladies both spoke up. From a guys pov, I really thought this was about a guy cheating. I think in society you see more of men cheating than women. And if women stray...it goes un-noticed or isn't focused upon.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

It's funny you ladies both spoke up. From a guys pov, I really thought this was about a guy cheating. I think in society you see more of men cheating than women. And if women stray...it goes un-noticed or isn't focused upon.

Yes, I agree that is a stereotype of men

But every person I mentioned...women!

People are just people.