New sex partner=new toys? Your opinion

[pinkgeek]

I think most subjects are worth discussing more than once!

I agree that having this thread in the femme zone makes me more likely to participate. As a personal rule I am less likely to be as opinionated in "zones" that aren't part of my definition of myself. My opinion about butch cock in a butch thread usually stops at my imagination and doesn't flow to my keyboard.

I'll add coconut to your banana ice cream and see you some chocolate chips.

Originally Posted by meridiantoo

I am new and did not realize another thread had already addressed this topic. I do think it being in both forums is a good idea, though (both femme and butch). I feel more comfortable speaking my mind in the femme forums, perhaps because I am new. I may not be the only femme who feels that way.

Now about that banana ice cream

[meridiantoo]

These are my thoughts before slumber tonight:

Our sexuality is an extension of the very core of our being. It is intertwined with our beliefs/hopes/dreams/self-identities/fears/the list goes on and on. My 'respect' definition is my own. It is based in patriarchal puritanical ideologies. I have no problem with that. As such, my sexual practices/lifestyle also reflect this. By owning this as me, it necessarily excludes other lifestyles. I can't be both puritanical and sexually liberal at the same time. That doesn't mean shaming of someone who lives differently than I do. I may not truly understand it. I may not appreciate it. I may not know how to process it. But, it doesn't mean a judgment per se. What someone thinks is on them.

I think this is the pearl of this thread, one I did not see when it started. You get to see how others feel about themselves, how they perceive others, and where their own definitions lie. To me, this is how you learn to grow as a person, expand your mind/heart and thus character.

[pinkgeek]

Originally Posted by meridiantoo

My 'respect' definition is my own. It is based in patriarchal puritanical ideologies. I have no problem with that. As such, my sexual practices/lifestyle also reflect this.

Disclaimer: I ask this in a most respectful fashion and in no way am I attacking you. I'm by nature a very curious person (ask anyone on BFP who knows me IRL) and articulate, respectful discourse with people who don't share my points of view, politics, etc. is incredibly interesting and valuable to me. Additionally I use the term "queer(s)" in it's academic meaning: to include the whole gender/LGBT spectrum.

Question: How do you reconcile being wherever you place yourself on the queer spectrum and being OK with/embracing of patriarchal and puritanical ideologies that have been and continue to be responsible for the subjugation, stratification and repression of minorities, very specifically targeting women and queers.

(I'm assuming because this is a butch/femme site that you do place yourself on the LGBT spectrum and don't identify as str8.)

<---nerdy pink is nerdy

[meridiantoo]

Originally Posted by pinkgeek

Disclaimer: I ask this in a most respectful fashion and in no way am I attacking you. I'm by nature a very curious person (ask anyone on BFP who knows me IRL) and articulate, respectful discourse with people who don't share my points of view, politics, etc. is incredibly interesting and valuable to me. Additionally I use the term "queer(s)" in it's academic meaning: to include the whole gender/LGBT spectrum.

Question: How do you reconcile being wherever you place yourself on the queer spectrum and being OK with/embracing of patriarchal and puritanical ideologies that have been and continue to be responsible for the subjugation, stratification and repression of minorities, very specifically targeting women and queers.

(I'm assuming because this is a butch/femme site that you do place yourself on the LGBT spectrum and don't identify as str8.)

<---nerdy pink is nerdy

Pink,

I loved what you wrote in your earlier post. I didn't take it offensively. I took it as I am in that category and that is the basis for my self-definitions. Being okay with it means I don't war with it, struggle with it (anymore, anyway).

No, I am not straight; lesbian femme - came out at 26, but I've only had 4 female sexual partners in that time.

Question: How do you reconcile being wherever you place yourself on the queer spectrum and being OK with/embracing of patriarchal and puritanical ideologies that have been and continue to be responsible for the subjugation, stratification and repression of minorities, very specifically targeting women and queers.


I have many issues with patriarchal systems. But, I still believe in them. I know that many, if not most, Christians do not act as Christ would, they are not Christ-like. That is very saddening to me, but it's true, in my experience. I look at it that the male persona (mostly bio male religious fundamentalists) have made the systems the way they are. And they are based on fear, mostly, I think, then followed by a sense of entitlement. I see the diamond in all the coal, and there is a lot of coal to brush aside to find the gem. I'm really pooped, but I wanted to respond before I went to bed. I will add more tomorrow. Thank you for responding.

[pinkgeek]

Originally Posted by meridiantoo

Pink,
I have many issues with patriarchal systems. But, I still believe in them. I know that many, if not most, Christians do not act as Christ would, they are not Christ-like. That is very saddening to me, but it's true, in my experience. I look at it that the male persona (mostly bio male religious fundamentalists) have made the systems the way they are. And they are based on fear, mostly, I think, then followed by a sense of entitlement. I see the diamond in all the coal, and there is a lot of coal to brush aside to find the gem. I'm really pooped, but I wanted to respond before I went to bed. I will add more tomorrow. Thank you for responding.

Thank you for responding and not taking offense by my curiosity. I should be asleep but I'm not and this whole thread has me writing a blog post which I'll regret when I have to be up in 3 hours.

I still not sure I understand your point, but we might be talking at cross points given that it's so late. I understand you are Christian and that for many/most that is a more conservative value system regarding sex etc, but I think one can be a Christian and still not subscribe to the patriarchy/puritanical rhetoric of minority oppression. I have many many Catholic friends who are allies and social justice workers, and I'm fairly certain that they would rail against their faith as a subscription to the patriarchy.

I have a professor who was a Methodist preacher for a huge congregation in Arizona. She jokes that all the gays came to her church. I'm going to have to ask her what she thinks about the intersection of religion and subscribing to the patriarchy. She's really progressive, was a sex therapist and teaches women's studies so it's not like I have the most conservative sources to ask.

Thanks for fab discourse. It will certainly lead to some incredible conversations with friends.

[Bells]

ok my 2 cents is......

Personally when in a new relationship I prefer to go and buy new toys. I like going shopping with my partner to buy them . I think it makes it that more personal and special. Plus I get to pick the type I like (some femmes like length and some of us like girth)

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by TheMerryFairy

I have a question for you all . It is a little off topic but not far off. Have any of you ever been asked by a sexual partner to use gloves or oral dams? What did you do? Did you use them because the other person would feel more comfortable or did you try to find another way to be safe?

I have never been asked but a few friends of mine have and they all seemed to act offended at the remark. I personally wouldn't think it would be an insult but I was curious to see what everybody else thought.

Safety first! Whatever means you need to achieve, do so.

Originally Posted by JustBeingMe

Why can't you understand what I am sayin. It's written in plain English.
What is it that you don't get in your head

I can understand being frustrated when varying opinions don't mesh well in conversations and it seems as if your opinon is not being heard but if this comment was addressed to me in a conversation, I would be pissed. It's offensive, not only to whom it was addressed to but the rest of us in the conversation too.

By posting online, we all open ourselves up to others who may counteract our opinions or have questions about why we feel as wel do. The act of posting consents to this.

[meridiantoo]

Originally Posted by pinkgeek

Disclaimer: I ask this in a most respectful fashion and in no way am I attacking you. I'm by nature a very curious person (ask anyone on BFP who knows me IRL) and articulate, respectful discourse with people who don't share my points of view, politics, etc. is incredibly interesting and valuable to me. Additionally I use the term "queer(s)" in it's academic meaning: to include the whole gender/LGBT spectrum.

Question: How do you reconcile being wherever you place yourself on the queer spectrum and being OK with/embracing of patriarchal and puritanical ideologies that have been and continue to be responsible for the subjugation, stratification and repression of minorities, very specifically targeting women and queers.

(I'm assuming because this is a butch/femme site that you do place yourself on the LGBT spectrum and don't identify as str8.)

<---nerdy pink is nerdy

Okay, back with a fresh pair of eyes and clearer thoughts...

I take the systems as a whole and realize they are limited and flawed because humans are limited and flawed (this is just my opinion, not tossing this toward or on anyone else - ).

I don't accept/support/overlook what has been done in the course of humanity to minorities/children/animals/Earth/those deemed 'lesser than' for whatever reason. I can't reconcile it to the point of being comfortable with living in a system that harms/disregards others. However, I am certain that if there were matriarchal systems that dominated history, there would be other problems too. I don't think female/feminine identities are without flaws/inherent limits. Both male and female as we know it are balancing agents. One alone is not enough and there is a 'checks and balances' undercurrent to life. Call it whatever you want (karma, justice)- it seems to be there to some degree. Without rambling too much more, I just think the answer to the crimes against humanity/life in general does not lie in male persecution or male subjugation. Two wrongs do not make a right. I am not a feminist as such. I don't think women should rule. I think men/women should rule fairly and in harmony.

I go to church and am saddened that my sexuality is an issue. But, I also understand where people are coming from and I do not think God condemns me. If people do, that's on them, in the end. Getting weary with the battle does mean I have, at this point in my life, set aside formal church settings for the most part. It's a flawed system. But, still one I accept as my truth.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by meridiantoo

I just think the answer to the crimes against humanity/life in general does not lie in male persecution or male subjugation. Two wrongs do not make a right. I am not a feminist as such. I don't think women should rule.

Feminism is not about subjugating and/or persecuting men (or even creating a system where "women...rule"--although more women in positions of power would help)--it is about working towards social, economic, sexual, political (etc.) equality in a world that is far from it.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I don't understand how being a feminist = hating men..


Originally Posted by Bard
I know when I broke up with my ex( Gooses mother) she um went into the spare bedroom where I was staying and found my harness and a new cock that I had purchased before we even broke up she cut them both up and left it on my bed.
------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by meridian

I'm sure there are valid reasons for doing this, but not many. Yowsie.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

meridian, there is no validity for taking someone's personal property and ruining it NONE.. That kind of shit is gross and there are some deep issues going on there.

I am pretty sure we can safely say that by her cutting up the equipment did NOT stop Bard from seeking another relationship/s...

Destroying property isn't cool, justifiable or ok no matter what, if you're (general) cray cray is showing that bad and you (general) are starting to get that creeping thought of destroying stuff that belongs to a lover, ex, or ANYONE perhaps a trip to the therapist is due...

WOW!! I can't believe I read what I read just now!!!

[meridiantoo]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I don't understand how being a feminist = hating men..


Originally Posted by Bard
I know when I broke up with my ex( Gooses mother) she um went into the spare bedroom where I was staying and found my harness and a new cock that I had purchased before we even broke up she cut them both up and left it on my bed.
------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by meridian

I'm sure there are valid reasons for doing this, but not many. Yowsie.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

meridian, there is no validity for taking someone's personal property and ruining it NONE.. That kind of shit is gross and there are some deep issues going on there.

I am pretty sure we can safely say that by her cutting up the equipment did NOT stop Bard from seeking another relationship/s...

Destroying property isn't cool, justifiable or ok no matter what, if you're (general) cray cray is showing that bad and you (general) are starting to get that creeping thought of destroying stuff that belongs to a lover, ex, or ANYONE perhaps a trip to the therapist is due...

WOW!! I can't believe I read what I read just now!!!

You rape a woman, you earn that. That's my point of view. There are reasons I can see women do it. I personally would not. But, I also would not judge someone who was raped and did that in angst.

Just my 2 cents....

I don't go around chopping cock up for personal pleasure.

[Hollylane]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I don't understand how being a feminist = hating men..


Originally Posted by Bard
I know when I broke up with my ex( Gooses mother) she um went into the spare bedroom where I was staying and found my harness and a new cock that I had purchased before we even broke up she cut them both up and left it on my bed.
------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by meridian

I'm sure there are valid reasons for doing this, but not many. Yowsie.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

meridian, there is no validity for taking someone's personal property and ruining it NONE.. That kind of shit is gross and there are some deep issues going on there.

I am pretty sure we can safely say that by her cutting up the equipment did NOT stop Bard from seeking another relationship/s...

Destroying property isn't cool, justifiable or ok no matter what, if you're (general) cray cray is showing that bad and you (general) are starting to get that creeping thought of destroying stuff that belongs to a lover, ex, or ANYONE perhaps a trip to the therapist is due...

WOW!! I can't believe I read what I read just now!!!

I agree. I tend to become very concerned about someone's state of mind when they start to feel the need to destroy property in a symbolic way. To me, the idea of needing to destroy something and then present it to that person, feels violent, and controlling. Yuck.

[meridiantoo]

Originally Posted by Soon

Feminism is not about subjugating and/or persecuting men (or even creating a system where "women...rule"--although more women in positions of power would help)--it is about working towards social, economic, sexual, political (etc.) equality in a world that is far from it.

I don't think true feminism is either. Neither is true masculinism/patriarchy. It's the perverted and skewed reality of how that plays out in history that makes it wrong, in my perspective. I am all for supporting/advancing women's rights. I did not make that statement to infer all feminism is male-bashing. I meant to imply that if it becomes that extreme, then I'm not on board with it.

[~ocean]

buy a bushel and a peck and let her snuggle into your neck ~~

[pinkgeek]

What is true feminism or are you referring to how you see feminism? Someone with a better grounding in women's studies than I do, I'd love an answer re: the concept of "true feminism". Feel free to PM so we don't go off topic much further.

Contemporary feminism as I understand it has to do with women having the freedom and choice to do ANYTHING a man does and nothing to do with make bashing.

Meri- the rest of my comments I'll send in a message to you so we don't inadvertently run too far off the original topic.

Originally Posted by meridiantoo

I don't think true feminism is either. Neither is true masculinism/patriarchy. It's the perverted and skewed reality of how that plays out in history that makes it wrong, in my perspective. I am all for supporting/advancing women's rights. I did not make that statement to infer all feminism is male-bashing. I meant to imply that if it becomes that extreme, then I'm not on board with it.