Infidelity

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Dylan

What's LKL?

I thought we were talking about making choices for ourselves.

And one of *my* meanings of 'character' is not basing someone's 'worth' solely on his/her looks...especially when it comes to celebrities. It chaps my ass whenever I hear comments like, "[Sandy] didn't deserve this because she's beautiful, and brilliant, and has a million things going for her. I would have treated her sooooooooooo much better."

It chaps my ass on so many levels. The main reason being the person who usually says this about celebrities has never DEALT with the celebrity. The entirety of the comment is based on public facade and (9 times outta 10) LOOKS. So, what does that mean? Does an not-so-attractive woman 'deserve' to be cheated on? And how in the hell does anyone know what it's like to live with Sandy (for example, altho the same shit was said about Eliza Hurley). I mean, seriously, maybe she's just a hideous person to deal with. Maybe a million things. But no, she's deemed attractive, so she MUST be just a complete joy to live with.

And who said anything about feeling 'pity' for men? I said there's a double standard. NO ONE says the same thing about the men who are cheated on (i.e. "OMG, he's sooooo hot, I would treat him right, he's brilliant and has a million things going for him...blah blah blah). No, the same things aren't said. And again, it goes back to sexism, because women are just delicate little flowers who need to be taken care of and "treated right" and all that other systematic sexist bullshit.


Dylan

Oh, Larry King Live. (LKL).. Tuesday night. Actually, it was a lousy group of interviewees. And the experts on sexual addictions were just not articulate at all. Not a very good representation of the fact that it can be an addictive and destructive situation for some people.

There was also a whole lotta stereotyping of both men and women going on! Which for me, gets in the way of looking at this in terms of addiction. This, and the latest celebrity sex rehab scenarios without people in the field that know what they are talking about.

JeepSakes, I agreed with you about the double standard... and the looks stuff as well. And, we all have different ideas of beauty, anyway. But, only people that are considered, beautiful, deserve to be treated well?? WTF is that?

I am right with you concerning personal choices.... I hate it when someone says they are lucky (re: about their relationship & partner). It isn't about luck at all, it is about taking care of yourself and choosing well. And having what it takes to be effective as a partner and knowing the art of cooperation. I know I make very conscious decisions about relationships and who I even date. Sure, I recognize that someone is a great choice, but I don't role dice in choosing to find out if someone is right for me (and themselves). And just because I might be smitten, doesn't mean I will turn away from what I know has to there in order to have a healthy relationship with someone. I make choices.

I had hoped with the Tiger Woods fiasco, that some good information would get out about sexual addictions, but, don't think it is. People don't want to deal with this. And they especially don't want to in terms of male stereotypes. They are much more able to think in terms of sex addiction with women, really... and stereotypes around sex abuse and histrionic personality variables (more stereotypes, usually).

Anything that gets in the way of forming positive relationships can have an addictive nature to it.

Just thinking that shouldn’t everyone cherish, respect, and hold their partner in high regard based upon mutuality of these tenets.

Oh, and hell yes, the Pope and the Band of Merry Men are a hell of a lot more important than this! Why can't Congress intervene with legislation in which all churches cannot be exempt from prosecution in these cases? The Catholic church is not the only perp here, either. The way in which religious organizations are protected/legally insulated from criminal (and civil) litigation in the US is an outrage.

[Kobi]

And on and on it goes lol.

Here I was the one who brought up using words carefully and I didnt when I spoke of people speaking publicly about how happy they are as a red flag for me. It is hard to explain in words, it is a feeling, it is something being said out of character, it is something you get a feel for. Saying you are happy with someone per se is not a red flag.

Rufus, I dont know if people are hard wired for monogamy or if it is cultural, economic, religious, or whatever. I know I am hard wired for monogamy.

And for cheaters heading to rehab for sexual addiction.......take away their access to viagra......I find it hard to believe these folks can carry on as they supposedly do without some artifical help.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Kobi

And for cheaters heading to rehab for sexual addiction.......take away their access to viagra......I find it hard to believe these folks can carry on as they supposedly do without some artifical help.

Sex addiction isn't just about fucking. It is about the high, but the high might come from flirting or an emotional connection. It's not just people having lots of sex with random folks. That's one type. A lot of them are porn addicts. A huge number seem to have torrid affairs online with people they never meet. Some just become infatuated a lot but never act on it. Nevertheless, it's disruptive to their lives.

[I'mOneToo]

It's not just disruptive to the sufferer, but everyone who knows them. It pervades every pore of the relationship until it kills it eventually. Maybe not in every case, but in my case, yeah. Some people suffer from the whole triple threat you mentioned, it's sad to feel so un-cared for by the other, that they would not want to get help. But they have to want it for themselves, another person will never be important enough. Like with my own addictions, I had to want to be clean and sober for myself, not for someone else. But I've also learned, for ME, sex addiction is a huge consideration in partnering -- learned like everything else, the hard way. I want no drugs, no alcohol, no smoking, and no sex addictions in my life. I want my partner to be able to be as fully in the present as possible. I offer that, and I want it in return. No more compromising my values. There are enough challenges in life without having to face daily addictions as part of the burden. Progress, not perfection -- and for me, progress starts with being free from active addictions, and my partner also. This is a separate issue (but related) from that of honesty and communication which are integral; for me it is impossible to achieve that with addictions in the way.

Originally Posted by Martina

Sex addiction isn't just about fucking. It is about the high, but the high might come from flirting or an emotional connection. It's not just people having lots of sex with random folks. That's one type. A lot of them are porn addicts. A huge number seem to have torrid affairs online with people they never meet. Some just become infatuated a lot but never act on it. Nevertheless, it's disruptive to their lives.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by I'mOneToo

It's not just disruptive to the sufferer, but everyone who knows them. It pervades every pore of the relationship until it kills it eventually. Maybe not in every case, but in my case, yeah. Some people suffer from the whole triple threat you mentioned, it's sad to feel so un-cared for by the other, that they would not want to get help. But they have to want it for themselves, another person will never be important enough. Like with my own addictions, I had to want to be clean and sober for myself, not for someone else. But I've also learned, for ME, sex addiction is a huge consideration in partnering -- learned like everything else, the hard way. I want no drugs, no alcohol, no smoking, and no sex addictions in my life. I want my partner to be able to be as fully in the present as possible. I offer that, and I want it in return. No more compromising my values. There are enough challenges in life without having to face daily addictions as part of the burden. Progress, not perfection -- and for me, progress starts with being free from active addictions, and my partner also. This is a separate issue (but related) from that of honesty and communication which are integral; for me it is impossible to achieve that with addictions in the way.

AMEN. I wonder if these few celebrity cases are doing a disservice to those who really do suffer as sex addicts. IMO it has made the public at large make a big joke about it. Which is sad.

Progress, not perfection baby!

[I'mOneToo]

In a way they do shine a light on a pervasive problem. On the down side, it tends to cause people to make light of a serious situation. Not everyone who suffers can get an all-expenses-paid trip to "Promises" or whatever the hell celeb rehab is popular these days. Maybe instead of highlighting those on pedestals, they could offer real solutions for the average person who may need it. It's a very complicated issue that can't be treated with a golf club.

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

AMEN. I wonder if these few celebrity cases are doing a disservice to those who really do suffer as sex addicts. IMO it has made the public at large make a big joke about it. Which is sad.

Progress, not perfection baby!

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Martina

Sex addiction isn't just about fucking. It is about the high, but the high might come from flirting or an emotional connection. It's not just people having lots of sex with random folks. That's one type. A lot of them are porn addicts. A huge number seem to have torrid affairs online with people they never meet. Some just become infatuated a lot but never act on it. Nevertheless, it's disruptive to their lives.

So glad you bring these points up. What is disrupted and how can really differ from couple to couple, as well. The thread got all involved with the celebrity phenomenon, but, what about just us? And I bet we all have an array of personal variables around relationships/marriages. When something causes our life to spin out of control, like multi-affairs or developing an online relationship that gets us in trouible - thinking about the Michigan man that ended up killing someone via an online romance in which the woman was actually the mother using her daughters identity, it can be addictive in nature. His marriage went down the tubes during his torrid love affair with someone who was actually not who he thought. And the guy he killed (the perceived threat) had never actually met the woman, either! he spent most of his time at home on the pc and he had a family!

[SuperFemme]

Many sex addicts are not in relationships. With a real person that is.

[Nina]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Many sex addicts are not in relationships. With a real person that is.

and, many sex addicts don't feel *themselves* as 'real' people...the whole thing, imo, is that it's all sad, sad, sad and brings that same upon everyone involved...

maudlin this evening, I guess...

[sweetcali]

So.....

I have been reading and following this thread just cuz well it interested me. Often times with threads like this my thinking and questions kind of go off in a direction that really is part of the topic but umm sometimes it doesn't look like it. So with my disclaimer here are my questions:

1) What if societies rules on how someone is to engage in sex were changed/different?

2) What if the societal rules and religious based rules on relationships and sexual conduct and activity were changed?

3) Aren't some of the ideas, rules, practices discussed in this thread really american societal rules of sexual conduct?

4) If the american societal rules of engagement within a relationship with regard to sex, sexuality and sexual conduct were different what would they look like?

sweetcali

[Dylan]

1. Ahhhhhhhh, thanks. I don't watch The Larry.

2. UGH with the stereotyping. Yeah, I agree...speaking in terms of stereotypes would totally diminish the actual situation.

2a) on a side note, I DO believe in some differences I didn't used to believe in...but I'm still totally agreeing with what you've said here.

3. Oh, I know...I was agreeing with you too. It's so annoying.

4. I agree.

5. Good points...thanks for the perspective


Dylan

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

1. Oh, Larry King Live. (LKL).. Tuesday night. Actually, it was a lousy group of interviewees. And the experts on sexual addictions were just not articulate at all. Not a very good representation of the fact that it can be an addictive and destructive situation for some people.

2. There was also a whole lotta stereotyping of both men and women going on! Which for me, gets in the way of looking at this in terms of addiction. This, and the latest celebrity sex rehab scenarios without people in the field that know what they are talking about.

3. JeepSakes, I agreed with you about the double standard... and the looks stuff as well. And, we all have different ideas of beauty, anyway. But, only people that are considered, beautiful, deserve to be treated well?? WTF is that?

4. I am right with you concerning personal choices.... I hate it when someone says they are lucky (re: about their relationship & partner). It isn't about luck at all, it is about taking care of yourself and choosing well. And having what it takes to be effective as a partner and knowing the art of cooperation. I know I make very conscious decisions about relationships and who I even date. Sure, I recognize that someone is a great choice, but I don't role dice in choosing to find out if someone is right for me (and themselves). And just because I might be smitten, doesn't mean I will turn away from what I know has to there in order to have a healthy relationship with someone. I make choices.

5. I had hoped with the Tiger Woods fiasco, that some good information would get out about sexual addictions, but, don't think it is. People don't want to deal with this. And they especially don't want to in terms of male stereotypes. They are much more able to think in terms of sex addiction with women, really... and stereotypes around sex abuse and histrionic personality variables (more stereotypes, usually).

Anything that gets in the way of forming positive relationships can have an addictive nature to it.

Just thinking that shouldn’t everyone cherish, respect, and hold their partner in high regard based upon mutuality of these tenets.

Oh, and hell yes, the Pope and the Band of Merry Men are a hell of a lot more important than this! Why can't Congress intervene with legislation in which all churches cannot be exempt from prosecution in these cases? The Catholic church is not the only perp here, either. The way in which religious organizations are protected/legally insulated from criminal (and civil) litigation in the US is an outrage.