What makes a Butch "Butch"

psykftm · 04-15-2013, 12:31 PM

desd said...

When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right?

*smiles*[/QUOTE]

Dang what a writer! lol but you brought something to mind mind which is great for me with this 'what makes a butch' topic. It would kill me for someone to call me feminine, as to why? The best I can come up with is it is not me.
I know labels suck, but since I'm working on trying to figure out who I am, I love them as descriptions. So my question comes from this scenario as written above
"the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd."
Now if my butch girlfriend did that to me, that would be hot!

I'm having a hard time getting at what I'm trying to get at lol

Being in a butch-butch relationship has turned up some threats to masculinity, like in pictures, she doesn't like it when I have my arm over her shoulder, because it makes her feel less butch. Well then I feel less butch.
I'm sure this is why someone would question a butch-butch relationship, but its so worth it lol!

I don't want to say I have a submissive side. I might, but it can't be considered feminine. I wanna know how other butches feel about these tight areas (if I have described it enough)...hopefully this is all still on topic

take care

lilapache · 04-15-2013, 12:59 PM

subscribing... will definitely be back tonite...

Toughy · 04-15-2013, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykbutch

desd said...

When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right?

*smiles*

Quote:

Dang what a writer! lol but you brought something to mind mind which is great for me with this 'what makes a butch' topic. It would kill me for someone to call me feminine, as to why? The best I can come up with is it is not me.
I know labels suck, but since I'm working on trying to figure out who I am, I love them as descriptions. So my question comes from this scenario as written above
"the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd."
Now if my butch girlfriend did that to me, that would be hot!

I'm having a hard time getting at what I'm trying to get at lol

Being in a butch-butch relationship has turned up some threats to masculinity, like in pictures, she doesn't like it when I have my arm over her shoulder, because it makes her feel less butch. Well then I feel less butch.
I'm sure this is why someone would question a butch-butch relationship, but its so worth it lol!

I don't want to say I have a submissive side. I might, but it can't be considered feminine. I wanna know how other butches feel about these tight areas (if I have described it enough)...hopefully this is all still on topic

take care

I will make it short and sweet. Anything and everything a butch does is butch. Period. Full Stop.

Do not ever let anyone tell you that you are less than as a butch or less than as a person, or that your relationship is less than.

CherylNYC · 04-15-2013, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykbutch

I don't want to say I have a submissive side. I might, but it can't be considered feminine. I wanna know how other butches feel about these tight areas (if I have described it enough)...hopefully this is all still on topic

take care

Please, PLEASE do NOT equate feminine with submissive!

If you have submissive moments or are submissive, then you're a submissive butch. Period.

psykftm · 04-16-2013, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Please, PLEASE do NOT equate feminine with submissive!

If you have submissive moments or are submissive, then you're a submissive butch. Period.

Thanks for the dividing line, and calling me out; I really don't know why I felt submissiveness was a feminine quality, instead of being a quality. I will definitely make sure when I'm posting to watch for myself equating feminine/submissive/weakness, but I can sense how wrong it is. Its all I've ever associated with. I've got some issues man, forced into one too many dresses or something. The only submissiveness I know of is abuse, although I keep hearing people put it in a positive or sexy light, there's something out there more then the bullshit I have experienced apparently.

You used the phrase "submissive butch"...that will give me something to ponder.

I think I might be changing the topic slightly here, I apologize

macele · 04-15-2013, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykbutch

desd said...

When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right?

*smiles*

Dang what a writer! lol but you brought something to mind mind which is great for me with this 'what makes a butch' topic. It would kill me for someone to call me feminine, as to why? The best I can come up with is it is not me.
I know labels suck, but since I'm working on trying to figure out who I am, I love them as descriptions. So my question comes from this scenario as written above
"the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd."
Now if my butch girlfriend did that to me, that would be hot!

I'm having a hard time getting at what I'm trying to get at lol

Being in a butch-butch relationship has turned up some threats to masculinity, like in pictures, she doesn't like it when I have my arm over her shoulder, because it makes her feel less butch. Well then I feel less butch.
I'm sure this is why someone would question a butch-butch relationship, but its so worth it lol!

I don't want to say I have a submissive side. I might, but it can't be considered feminine. I wanna know how other butches feel about these tight areas (if I have described it enough)...hopefully this is all still on topic

take care[/QUOTE]

are you saying that your girlfriend is the dominate one in the relationship? you can say that you are submissive, or have submissive tendencies, it's ok lol. own them!

lilapache · 04-15-2013, 06:04 PM

ok... i haven't been able to read but i have thought about it alot today... and this is just my opinion...

a Butch is a Butch when that is how they feel.... not ID... Male or Female ID butches feel the way they do.. it is apart of them... its the core values of what they believe... and its an aura... NO femme can miss... the confidence.. the way they hold themselves and the way that they treat their partner...

this is just my thoughts..,.

Diablo · 04-15-2013, 09:15 PM

starryeyes · 04-15-2013, 09:36 PM

A Butch is whoever they want to be. Individuality is amazing and conformity sucks!

psykftm · 04-16-2013, 05:17 AM

are you saying that your girlfriend is the dominate one in the relationship? you can say that you are submissive, or have submissive tendencies, it's ok lol. own them![/QUOTE]

Funny we just got into it yesterday over this and my girlfriend said I make her feel like more of a femme, which is upsetting to her as a butch. I'm thinking it's due to my insecurities, because the second you try to 'pin' submissiveness on me lol, my mind goes "hey now wait a minute". Who knows maybe I just don't know how to be a dom. Or maybe I am submissive, or both...its going to be a freakin enigma to me for awhile it looks like.

DapperButch · 04-16-2013, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykbutch

are you saying that your girlfriend is the dominate one in the relationship? you can say that you are submissive, or have submissive tendencies, it's ok lol. own them!

Funny we just got into it yesterday over this and my girlfriend said I make her feel like more of a femme, which is upsetting to her as a butch. I'm thinking it's due to my insecurities, because the second you try to 'pin' submissiveness on me lol, my mind goes "hey now wait a minute". Who knows maybe I just don't know how to be a dom. Or maybe I am submissive, or both...its going to be a freakin enigma to me for awhile it looks like.[/QUOTE]

Is it possible you both are consciously or unconsciously looking to have the "butch-femme dance", in your relationship, even though you are two butches? It seems like you both struggle with not feeling like "the butch" in the relationship. Can't you both be butch and just have your "own dance"? What about the butch-butch dance?

My point is...get what you expect out of your head and just go with the flow...don't label it.

Good luck.

psykftm · 04-16-2013, 07:16 AM

Is it possible you both are consciously or unconsciously looking to have the "butch-femme dance", in your relationship, even though you are two butches? It seems like you both struggle with not feeling like "the butch" in the relationship. Can't you both be butch and just have your "own dance"? What about the butch-butch dance?

My point is...get what you expect out of your head and just go with the flow...don't label it.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]

That is a good point-I think maybe unconsciously we do both get into these moments of the butch-femme dance. She does not struggle with her identity at all..."I'm Dee" she says. I still really struggle with how others see me, and how they will construct me in their minds. Just the other day I had some customer say I would look better with long hair. That to me is on the list of some of the worst things a person could say to me. I haven't learned how to roll it off my shoulder yet

I think my rationality is that if I fit a stereotype first, and be accepted, then I can relax into myself later but that is likely flawed I'm thinkin lol

wahya · 04-16-2013, 08:51 AM

This is an interesting thread. I am not all that great with words I am better one on one talking.(not txting email or phone) But for me being butch I never tried to analyze myself. Being a mother & grandmother my main character trait is my protective nature. But when you meet me you know I have more masculine traits than femme. Yeah I have been mistaken for a guy plenty of times. It used to bug me but now I just chuckle or in a harmless way embarrass them. But I know they are already embarrassed but at least maybe now they will take the time with other people and pay attention to them. I love who I am and being butch is right up there with my native pride.

~ocean · 04-16-2013, 08:56 AM

birth makes a butch a butch ~ just my personal opinion ~

macele · 04-17-2013, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykbutch

are you saying that your girlfriend is the dominate one in the relationship? you can say that you are submissive, or have submissive tendencies, it's ok lol. own them!

Funny we just got into it yesterday over this and my girlfriend said I make her feel like more of a femme, which is upsetting to her as a butch. I'm thinking it's due to my insecurities, because the second you try to 'pin' submissiveness on me lol, my mind goes "hey now wait a minute". Who knows maybe I just don't know how to be a dom. Or maybe I am submissive, or both...its going to be a freakin enigma to me for awhile it looks like.[/QUOTE]

time helps with learning about ourselves. most need to go through the labels in order to work it all out in our minds and hearts. we all are unique. you are your own butch. there's not another you in this whole wide world. keep what works, ... throw the rest back.

puddin' · 04-20-2013, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macele

I'm thinking it's due to my insecurities...

i'm curious as to why it's about YOUR insecurities?

macele · 04-20-2013, 03:03 PM

hey puddin'. i meant to bold my text so that it wouldn't all blend. psykbutch is discussing insecurities. i do have them though lol.

Ascot · 04-20-2013, 03:32 PM

Scratch everything I previously said. Clearly what makes me butch is the fact that my bowling ball looks like an 8-ball.

QueenofSmirks · 08-24-2013, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykbutch

Funny we just got into it yesterday over this and my girlfriend said I make her feel like more of a femme, which is upsetting to her as a butch. I'm thinking it's due to my insecurities, because the second you try to 'pin' submissiveness on me lol, my mind goes "hey now wait a minute". Who knows maybe I just don't know how to be a dom. Or maybe I am submissive, or both...its going to be a freakin enigma to me for awhile it looks like.

I've seen some posts in this thread that have suggested you and your girlfriend have some subconscious interest in the "butch-femme" dance. I don't really understand that, it seems to imply that some type of power dynamic equates a butch-femme relationship :: shrug :: In any case, I think you can also drop the assumption that one of you must be "submissive." There *is* such a thing as just being a bottom, or a receiver, all times, sometimes, or once in a blue moon. It doesn't have to "mean" anything except that you like sex the way you like it. You don't need to put a label on it.

Lastly, you've mentioned a couple of times that you and your girlfriend may be incompatible when it comes to BDSM - I hope you find a way to work it out, to both your satisfaction.

04-15-2013, 12:59 PM	#2
lilapache Member How Do You Identify?: DONE Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: forever away Posts: 1,374 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,015 Thanked 3,880 Times in 1,025 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	subscribing... will definitely be back tonite... __________________ Don't get mad when a girl cares too much. Worry when they start to not give a fuck.

04-15-2013, 06:04 PM	#7
lilapache Member How Do You Identify?: DONE Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: forever away Posts: 1,374 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,015 Thanked 3,880 Times in 1,025 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	ok... i haven't been able to read but i have thought about it alot today... and this is just my opinion... a Butch is a Butch when that is how they feel.... not ID... Male or Female ID butches feel the way they do.. it is apart of them... its the core values of what they believe... and its an aura... NO femme can miss... the confidence.. the way they hold themselves and the way that they treat their partner... this is just my thoughts..,. __________________ Don't get mad when a girl cares too much. Worry when they start to not give a fuck.

04-15-2013, 09:36 PM	#9
starryeyes Senior Member How Do You Identify?: a round peg in a square hole Preferred Pronoun?: Guess... Relationship Status: Seat taken Join Date: May 2011 Location: Rocky Mountain High Posts: 2,491 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,199 Thanked 10,050 Times in 2,076 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	A Butch is whoever they want to be. Individuality is amazing and conformity sucks! __________________ "It's ok to make mistakes. It's ok to fall down. Get up! Look sickening....and make them eat it!" - Latrice Royale Starry

04-16-2013, 08:56 AM	#14
~ocean Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme blows a kiss off my finger tips * Preferred Pronoun?: ~ hey girl ~ Relationship Status: ~ single & content ~ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Massachusetts ~coastal Posts: 7,905 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 22,958 Thanked 16,018 Times in 4,724 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	birth makes a butch a butch ~ just my personal opinion ~ __________________ ~ Always, ocean

04-20-2013, 03:32 PM	#18
Ascot Member How Do You Identify?: Preppy Butch artist Relationship Status: Riding solo Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North of the Emerald City Posts: 1,135 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 179 Thanked 2,487 Times in 549 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	Scratch everything I previously said. Clearly what makes me butch is the fact that my bowling ball looks like an 8-ball. __________________ Now, if I could just find a way to get paid for what I can do with my tongue and a cherry stem.

04-15-2013, 12:31 PM	#1
psykftm Junior Member How Do You Identify?: FtM Preferred Pronoun?: he Relationship Status: single, healing Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: palm bay, fl Posts: 41 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 59 Thanked 145 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 1779618	desd said... When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right? smiles[/QUOTE] Dang what a writer! lol but you brought something to mind mind which is great for me with this 'what makes a butch' topic. It would kill me for someone to call me feminine, as to why? The best I can come up with is it is not me. I know labels suck, but since I'm working on trying to figure out who I am, I love them as descriptions. So my question comes from this scenario as written above "the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd." Now if my butch girlfriend did that to me, that would be hot! I'm having a hard time getting at what I'm trying to get at lol Being in a butch-butch relationship has turned up some threats to masculinity, like in pictures, she doesn't like it when I have my arm over her shoulder, because it makes her feel less butch. Well then I feel less butch. I'm sure this is why someone would question a butch-butch relationship, but its so worth it lol! I don't want to say I have a submissive side. I might, but it can't be considered feminine. I wanna know how other butches feel about these tight areas (if I have described it enough)...hopefully this is all still on topic take care

04-15-2013, 09:15 PM	#8
Diablo Timed Out - Identity Issues How Do You Identify?: HUMAN Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Earth Posts: 843 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,128 Thanked 1,618 Times in 623 Posts Rep Power: 0

04-16-2013, 05:17 AM	#10
psykftm Junior Member How Do You Identify?: FtM Preferred Pronoun?: he Relationship Status: single, healing Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: palm bay, fl Posts: 41 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 59 Thanked 145 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 1779618	are you saying that your girlfriend is the dominate one in the relationship? you can say that you are submissive, or have submissive tendencies, it's ok lol. own them![/QUOTE] Funny we just got into it yesterday over this and my girlfriend said I make her feel like more of a femme, which is upsetting to her as a butch. I'm thinking it's due to my insecurities, because the second you try to 'pin' submissiveness on me lol, my mind goes "hey now wait a minute". Who knows maybe I just don't know how to be a dom. Or maybe I am submissive, or both...its going to be a freakin enigma to me for awhile it looks like.

04-16-2013, 07:16 AM	#12
psykftm Junior Member How Do You Identify?: FtM Preferred Pronoun?: he Relationship Status: single, healing Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: palm bay, fl Posts: 41 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 59 Thanked 145 Times in 34 Posts Rep Power: 1779618	Is it possible you both are consciously or unconsciously looking to have the "butch-femme dance", in your relationship, even though you are two butches? It seems like you both struggle with not feeling like "the butch" in the relationship. Can't you both be butch and just have your "own dance"? What about the butch-butch dance? My point is...get what you expect out of your head and just go with the flow...don't label it. Good luck.[/QUOTE] That is a good point-I think maybe unconsciously we do both get into these moments of the butch-femme dance. She does not struggle with her identity at all..."I'm Dee" she says. I still really struggle with how others see me, and how they will construct me in their minds. Just the other day I had some customer say I would look better with long hair. That to me is on the list of some of the worst things a person could say to me. I haven't learned how to roll it off my shoulder yet I think my rationality is that if I fit a stereotype first, and be accepted, then I can relax into myself later but that is likely flawed I'm thinkin lol

04-16-2013, 08:51 AM	#13
wahya Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Me Preferred Pronoun?: Me Relationship Status: im good Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 296 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 506 Thanked 857 Times in 240 Posts Rep Power: 0	This is an interesting thread. I am not all that great with words I am better one on one talking.(not txting email or phone) But for me being butch I never tried to analyze myself. Being a mother & grandmother my main character trait is my protective nature. But when you meet me you know I have more masculine traits than femme. Yeah I have been mistaken for a guy plenty of times. It used to bug me but now I just chuckle or in a harmless way embarrass them. But I know they are already embarrassed but at least maybe now they will take the time with other people and pay attention to them. I love who I am and being butch is right up there with my native pride.

04-20-2013, 03:03 PM	#17
macele Member How Do You Identify?: a bold-assed maximus Preferred Pronoun?: she Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: mississippi Posts: 1,066 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,178 Thanked 3,230 Times in 847 Posts Rep Power: 21474850	hey puddin'. i meant to bold my text so that it wouldn't all blend. psykbutch is discussing insecurities. i do have them though lol.