What makes a Butch "Butch"

[Jett]

I have long hair and painted black nails... two coats and nice top coat, I also wear make-up with my t- and jeans or hoodies or more "female" clothing... nope I don't do dresses or even flowers, frilly or cutesy but just because it's not my style but I like my hips and tits... and my deep voice. I am a very strong, protective, loving, kind and bad azz female likes to get dirty (sometimes not) and who wants a good life for me and mine.

This is who I am... what does it mean beyond that about my sex or gender? Nothing. It doesn't speak for who I am. My heart and soul does that. I do admit, these days at first glance I could probably be mistaken for a femme or straight more than pegged queer or butch, somedays not, but the proof is in the pudding... dark intense chocolate w/ sprinkles on top in my case... xD

I will add that I don't like to "identify" w/ a single word... so I don't... but here (b/f spaces) is where I find myself again and again because the dynamic draws me... it is natural to me.

No rules,
Jett

[SleepyButch]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

Wolfsong wrote: "Throughout the course of my day I would say that I get addressed as a equal times as Sir or Ma'am. There are times that, for no apparent reason, when people address me as Sir I just want to scream at them "Are you fucking blind? Do you NOT see these tits? If these tits got any bigger they'd be required to have break lights and a license plate you dumbass!" but I just smile and move along. I've come to believe that this reaction is more about being hurt at being invisible to people than it does to my gender identity."



Wolfsong, your response to being mistaken for a man, despite your impressive boobage, made me remember fondly a butch lover who was almost always called "Sir," and who was confronted by security not once but twice in the time I knew her—after women reported a man in the ladies' bathroom.

She too marveled that anyone could mistake her for male, as her breasts were (and are, I suppose, though I haven't seen her for a while), absolutely huge.

What's interesting is that I read her as butch from the first moment I heard her beautiful deep voice on a friend's answering machine (she was trying to set us up, and knew I would swoon for it), and my reading never wavered, even though she is much more endowed upstairs, than I am.

Her breasts, in other words, did not feminize her. She didn't "present" them the way I present my own little girls, when we are dressing up to go out. She kept them under wraps, snugly out of the way. And they behaved, of course.

I think we "read" people based on certain indicators, and that we do this instantly and subconsciously. The signs that masculine energy is approaching were so clear, in my lover—physical aspects like her walk, her way of holding herself, her gaze, as well as cultural indicators, like her clothing—that the signs she is a woman became secondary.

I raise my glass (I mean, paper cup with coffee), to the large-breasted butch women out there in the world, who emit a welcome and much-appreciated vibe.

In my own experience, I used to have very large breasts but I always wore baggy shirts. I still thought they were noticeable. I think a lot of people don't look there once they see the short spikey hair and masculine looks. They just assume I'm male.

One time, I was walking out of the women's bathroom and a woman was coming in. She gave me a look, hesitated, walked back to see the woman's sign for the bathroom. I said.. you are in the right place and I walked out. lol

If I'm in a mood, I will correct them and many times, I get the response: Oh, I didn't look up. Another time, I was checking into a rather fancy hotel and the woman at the desk kept saying sir... I kept saying ma'am.. this happened several times and she never looked at me. She even had my driver's license with my name which is not a male name.

Now that I have longer hair (for me), I don't get mistaken for male as much. My breasts are smaller so that leads me to believe people just don't look at the whole person.

[lusciouskiwi]

Cleo Gardner (amazing Writer) wrote this...wished I had written it...it expresses my feelings sooo well....thank you Cleo!

♥♥♥ Butch Appreciation & Adoration ♥♥♥ to all the handsome, swarthy, perverted, warrior, two-spirted, gender bender, dapper, faggy, delicious, top, bottom, switch, witch, heart wounded, un/complicated, careful, pragmatic, chivalrous, rope tying, knitting, tool wielding, packing and anywhere on the masculinity/femininity spectrum Butches. those who are creating the geography of their own identity maps in the face of their constructed “otherness” ! To those who are gentle, firm, tender, those who make us proud to be on their arms, in their lives, their fantasies and a part of their dreams, the Butches who get harassed in the “ladies” rooms and those whose bodies refuse to conform. Those who stand quietly at the back of the room, bar, party but will be the first to step up when you need them.. those who smile even though they have struggled to get through the day dealing with homophobic looks and commentary as they live their everyday lives.. KNOW THIS.. as a Femme I love who you are and I’m aware that when I tell you you are damn fine and sexy that of course you squirm and blush because you enjoy it but it hurts my heart to know your discomfort also comes from being told you are ugly, too often.. yet you continue to challenge the heterosexist construct of being born female that is regurgitated relentlessly and for that humble but giant strength, I adore you.. understand that I have your back as I stand by your side.. That for me there is nothing more perfect and complete than a Butch who embraces their Butchness.. I will always notice your swagger and that your centre of gravity is low, growling vibrations that I can hear 100 metres away. The sound of your boots and the smell of your cologne lingers in my senses long after you have left the room.. Your energy, contradictions and essence are what fits my being and makes me feel I have found “home”. x

[~ocean]

~ I cant speak for a butch this is their knowing ~from an admiring femmes point of view ~ a butch from birth;s confidence ~ hys knowing of hymself ~ is the most sexiesttttttttt ~ dayummmmm ~

[Amante]

I'm glad that I came across this thread.

After 15 years of almost exclusively dating very masculine butches - most of whom were to a large degree male-identified - and a few FTMs, I am now with a fully female-identified butch who is what I refer to as my "peacock butch" because of how male peacocks are far more showy and colorful than the females.

I knew even before we met in person that she sometimes wears makeup and sometimes paints her nails, that she sometimes carries a purse and that she buys most of her clothes from the women's section, and while she would never wear a dress or skirt, there are many things that she has worn and still wears that are far from masculine. I honestly wasn't sure at first how I'd react to this: Would I be able to relate to her as a butch if she had on lipstick?!? And I knew before we met that even her sexual expression was different than I was used to, in ways that I won't go into detail, but it left me wondering how I'd be with that.

So this took some seriously getting used to for me, but in the end I was glad to be forced to reexamine my definition of what makes someone butch. Because in all the ways that in the end really matte to ME, she is the butchest butch I've ever been with: In the butch/femme relationship and sexual energy that we have, in how we make love, in how she cares for me and is protective of me without it ever taking away from my own strength, in how in this butch/femme dance she naturally leads while I naturally follow while always being completely equal partners in that dance.

So yes, it was strange and new to me that when we went to the opera last week, along with her slacks and tailored silky blouse she wore a dramatic velvet cape, carried a clutch purse, and wore makeup. But it didn't diminish who she was as a butch one tiny bit, and I was relieved to find myself finally relaxing about my own responses. She loves flashing her colorful feathers and showing off her glorious self, and I love her all the more for her courage to be exactly who she is instead of feeling that she has to conform to a certain standard of dress in order to know that she's butch to the core. SHE knows who she is, and her confidence in that and her comfort in expressing herself in any way she wants (as opposed to if she dressed like that i order to hide) is all it took for me to be completely comfortable with her as my butch.

[DapperButch]

WOW! Great post! Good to hear of such a confident butch who knows who she is and doesn't give a crap as to others` definitions! She is lucky to have a partner like you who doesn't box her in!

[suebee]

There are so many things that make my wife butch: the way she walks, the way she dresses, her code of conduct when with a straight woman or a femme. But the bottom line is that she identifies as butch. This isn't *what" she is, but *who* she is. Of all the external attributes or behaviors I could name, how she sees herself is the most important factor in her butchness. I know of many women who might be as masculine who don't see themselves as butches. It's first and foremost a state of mind.

[psykftm]

desd said...

When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right?

*smiles*[/QUOTE]

Dang what a writer! lol but you brought something to mind mind which is great for me with this 'what makes a butch' topic. It would kill me for someone to call me feminine, as to why? The best I can come up with is it is not me.
I know labels suck, but since I'm working on trying to figure out who I am, I love them as descriptions. So my question comes from this scenario as written above
"the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd."
Now if my butch girlfriend did that to me, that would be hot!

I'm having a hard time getting at what I'm trying to get at lol

Being in a butch-butch relationship has turned up some threats to masculinity, like in pictures, she doesn't like it when I have my arm over her shoulder, because it makes her feel less butch. Well then I feel less butch.
I'm sure this is why someone would question a butch-butch relationship, but its so worth it lol!

I don't want to say I have a submissive side. I might, but it can't be considered feminine. I wanna know how other butches feel about these tight areas (if I have described it enough)...hopefully this is all still on topic

take care

[lilapache]

subscribing... will definitely be back tonite...

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by psykbutch

desd said...

When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right?

*smiles*

Dang what a writer! lol but you brought something to mind mind which is great for me with this 'what makes a butch' topic. It would kill me for someone to call me feminine, as to why? The best I can come up with is it is not me.
I know labels suck, but since I'm working on trying to figure out who I am, I love them as descriptions. So my question comes from this scenario as written above
"the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd."
Now if my butch girlfriend did that to me, that would be hot!

I'm having a hard time getting at what I'm trying to get at lol

Being in a butch-butch relationship has turned up some threats to masculinity, like in pictures, she doesn't like it when I have my arm over her shoulder, because it makes her feel less butch. Well then I feel less butch.
I'm sure this is why someone would question a butch-butch relationship, but its so worth it lol!

I don't want to say I have a submissive side. I might, but it can't be considered feminine. I wanna know how other butches feel about these tight areas (if I have described it enough)...hopefully this is all still on topic

take care

I will make it short and sweet. Anything and everything a butch does is butch. Period. Full Stop.

Do not ever let anyone tell you that you are less than as a butch or less than as a person, or that your relationship is less than.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by psykbutch

I don't want to say I have a submissive side. I might, but it can't be considered feminine. I wanna know how other butches feel about these tight areas (if I have described it enough)...hopefully this is all still on topic

take care

Please, PLEASE do NOT equate feminine with submissive!

If you have submissive moments or are submissive, then you're a submissive butch. Period.

[Hollylane]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

Wolfsong wrote: "Throughout the course of my day I would say that I get addressed as a equal times as Sir or Ma'am. There are times that, for no apparent reason, when people address me as Sir I just want to scream at them "Are you fucking blind? Do you NOT see these tits? If these tits got any bigger they'd be required to have break lights and a license plate you dumbass!" but I just smile and move along. I've come to believe that this reaction is more about being hurt at being invisible to people than it does to my gender identity."



Wolfsong, your response to being mistaken for a man, despite your impressive boobage, made me remember fondly a butch lover who was almost always called "Sir," and who was confronted by security not once but twice in the time I knew her—after women reported a man in the ladies' bathroom.

She too marveled that anyone could mistake her for male, as her breasts were (and are, I suppose, though I haven't seen her for a while), absolutely huge.

What's interesting is that I read her as butch from the first moment I heard her beautiful deep voice on a friend's answering machine (she was trying to set us up, and knew I would swoon for it), and my reading never wavered, even though she is much more endowed upstairs, than I am.

Her breasts, in other words, did not feminize her. She didn't "present" them the way I present my own little girls, when we are dressing up to go out. She kept them under wraps, snugly out of the way. And they behaved, of course.

I think we "read" people based on certain indicators, and that we do this instantly and subconsciously. The signs that masculine energy is approaching were so clear, in my lover—physical aspects like her walk, her way of holding herself, her gaze, as well as cultural indicators, like her clothing—that the signs she is a woman became secondary.

I raise my glass (I mean, paper cup with coffee), to the large-breasted butch women out there in the world, who emit a welcome and much-appreciated vibe.

Bravo!....

[macele]

Originally Posted by psykbutch

desd said...

When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right?

*smiles*

Dang what a writer! lol but you brought something to mind mind which is great for me with this 'what makes a butch' topic. It would kill me for someone to call me feminine, as to why? The best I can come up with is it is not me.
I know labels suck, but since I'm working on trying to figure out who I am, I love them as descriptions. So my question comes from this scenario as written above
"the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd."
Now if my butch girlfriend did that to me, that would be hot!

I'm having a hard time getting at what I'm trying to get at lol

Being in a butch-butch relationship has turned up some threats to masculinity, like in pictures, she doesn't like it when I have my arm over her shoulder, because it makes her feel less butch. Well then I feel less butch.
I'm sure this is why someone would question a butch-butch relationship, but its so worth it lol!

I don't want to say I have a submissive side. I might, but it can't be considered feminine. I wanna know how other butches feel about these tight areas (if I have described it enough)...hopefully this is all still on topic

take care[/QUOTE]



are you saying that your girlfriend is the dominate one in the relationship? you can say that you are submissive, or have submissive tendencies, it's ok lol. own them!

[lilapache]

ok... i haven't been able to read but i have thought about it alot today... and this is just my opinion...

a Butch is a Butch when that is how they feel.... not ID... Male or Female ID butches feel the way they do.. it is apart of them... its the core values of what they believe... and its an aura... NO femme can miss... the confidence.. the way they hold themselves and the way that they treat their partner...

this is just my thoughts..,.

[Diablo]

[starryeyes]

A Butch is whoever they want to be. Individuality is amazing and conformity sucks!

[psykftm]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Please, PLEASE do NOT equate feminine with submissive!

If you have submissive moments or are submissive, then you're a submissive butch. Period.

Thanks for the dividing line, and calling me out; I really don't know why I felt submissiveness was a feminine quality, instead of being a quality. I will definitely make sure when I'm posting to watch for myself equating feminine/submissive/weakness, but I can sense how wrong it is. Its all I've ever associated with. I've got some issues man, forced into one too many dresses or something. The only submissiveness I know of is abuse, although I keep hearing people put it in a positive or sexy light, there's something out there more then the bullshit I have experienced apparently.

You used the phrase "submissive butch"...that will give me something to ponder.

I think I might be changing the topic slightly here, I apologize

[psykftm]

are you saying that your girlfriend is the dominate one in the relationship? you can say that you are submissive, or have submissive tendencies, it's ok lol. own them![/QUOTE]

Funny we just got into it yesterday over this and my girlfriend said I make her feel like more of a femme, which is upsetting to her as a butch. I'm thinking it's due to my insecurities, because the second you try to 'pin' submissiveness on me lol, my mind goes "hey now wait a minute". Who knows maybe I just don't know how to be a dom. Or maybe I am submissive, or both...its going to be a freakin enigma to me for awhile it looks like.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by psykbutch

are you saying that your girlfriend is the dominate one in the relationship? you can say that you are submissive, or have submissive tendencies, it's ok lol. own them!

Funny we just got into it yesterday over this and my girlfriend said I make her feel like more of a femme, which is upsetting to her as a butch. I'm thinking it's due to my insecurities, because the second you try to 'pin' submissiveness on me lol, my mind goes "hey now wait a minute". Who knows maybe I just don't know how to be a dom. Or maybe I am submissive, or both...its going to be a freakin enigma to me for awhile it looks like.[/QUOTE]

Is it possible you both are consciously or unconsciously looking to have the "butch-femme dance", in your relationship, even though you are two butches? It seems like you both struggle with not feeling like "the butch" in the relationship. Can't you both be butch and just have your "own dance"? What about the butch-butch dance?

My point is...get what you expect out of your head and just go with the flow...don't label it.

Good luck.

[psykftm]

Is it possible you both are consciously or unconsciously looking to have the "butch-femme dance", in your relationship, even though you are two butches? It seems like you both struggle with not feeling like "the butch" in the relationship. Can't you both be butch and just have your "own dance"? What about the butch-butch dance?

My point is...get what you expect out of your head and just go with the flow...don't label it.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]

That is a good point-I think maybe unconsciously we do both get into these moments of the butch-femme dance. She does not struggle with her identity at all..."I'm Dee" she says. I still really struggle with how others see me, and how they will construct me in their minds. Just the other day I had some customer say I would look better with long hair. That to me is on the list of some of the worst things a person could say to me. I haven't learned how to roll it off my shoulder yet

I think my rationality is that if I fit a stereotype first, and be accepted, then I can relax into myself later but that is likely flawed I'm thinkin lol