The Femme Continuum: The "Highs" and "Lows" of Visibility

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

Coming back to date in Vancouver after easy access to community has being unbelievably triggering of old shit. Of the being told I'm a cocksucker, and all other kinds of things by my peers in my own community. The younger ones are better. The ones under 35 seem to have a better grip. But I can't hang out with lezzos my own age without the constant conversation that makes me wish I was back in London. So I've stopped. I've stopped trying because it fucks me up. In the head I mean. I can't cope with the constant trying to defend being feminine.

In London the way I present is consider bog standard. In Vancouver the local dykes think I am OTT feminine. And that is about local perception and not a hierarchy. I don't think I am more femme than my flatmate who dress in jeans and t-shirts and no make up. If anything she's probably more girly than I am!

But I am interested about issues is someone wants to talk a about them, as long as they don't tell me to shut up about mine.

HB, I bolded the last line. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would never tell you to "shut up." It's always good to hear what you have to say.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by IslandScout

HB, I bolded the last line. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would never tell you to "shut up." It's always good to hear what you have to say.

that was more in reference to reading that as a white femme lesbian, my issues or talking about my issues are annoying. OK, then I'd like to hear what people have to say. I'd prefer if I wasn't told what I deal with is annoying to hear, but I can sort of understand. when in London, where the quality of life is 68 times lower than in vancouver, when some of my friends would bitch about the harper gov't, I'd roll my eyes and think "holy shit, really??? you have no fucking idea... third highest quality of life in the world. REALLY??? I *wish* I had those problems...."

And now I do. And A) I am FUCKING GLAD I am no longer in a place with a grueling tripple recession going on (I wonder when the the gov't is going to admit they are actually in a depression??) and the shocking state of econmic break down... b) now that I am here, I understand what they are talking about with the harper gov't. Is it much better than London? holy shit yes. But you know what, belittling the destruction that this gov't, the papermill and the sulphur plant does to the locality was really fucking remiss of me. I love this place and I don't want it destroyed to the point that London is suffering in order for it to matter or be of equal importance.
I would rather that London's standard of living was brought up to Vancouver's and even better = not vancouver's priviliged life style brought down to London's so they can understand and be just as much in the shit.

So I do my best to educate people here about what life is like in the EU right now. Especially the UK. I do this through local conversations and face book and just daily chats with random people.
Just like I do with outing myself, everyday, all day.
When I am in danger of being gaybashed, yeah I can hide that, but 95% of the time I am in equal danger of being sexually assualted for being feminine. when out with a masculine of centre person, I know that if someone harasses her for being a dyke, I know that in under three minutes I'm going to be a target for being a slut. And vice versa. it's different sides of the same coin. the coin of sexism and fear and hatred of women.

That's my take anyway.

[~ocean]

Ohhh I agree , Honey ,we are in a depression ~ the prices have been sky rocketing in everything ~ even tho here in Massachusetts ~ realestate is strong ~ BUT not enough new employers ~ unemployment has risen ~ college grads are taking their degrees elsewhere ~ that alone tells you ~ I feel bad pushing the ole GO TO COLLEGE theory ~ who wants to see someone 22 + yrs old starting off life w. a $-75,000. on their shoulders w. no job placement ?

[julieisafemme]

I don't experience the femme's post about being that I shut up. I DO experience invisibility as a femme but more in a queer context than in the straight world. So I am a QWF as referred to in the post but am I *the* QWF? What I mean by this is her post a personal attack on ME? There are any number of things I run across on FB or comments on articles that super piss me off. Do I need to take on each comment as a personal attack on me or can I think about what they are saying, check myself and then adjust my attitude. I am sure I could post some rants about crap I have experienced and have people think wow that is about me! Maybe and maybe not. If it is about me ok so then what? I can personalize it or adjust my attitude or say no. I can still have my feelings.

My understanding of gender identities in POC communities is that they are very different than in white communities. What is missing from the femme's post is what her experience is. We are having a separate conversation here with no input from the original source.

Ok I am very clueless a good portion of the time. People have said the picture with the post disturbing. Why? What about it is upsetting? This is an honest and genuine question.

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

What is missing from the femme's post is what her experience is. We are having a separate conversation here with no input from the original source.

Hi Julie,

I excerpted a portion of your post that I feel deserves specific attention: In other words, I think your observation carries significant importance in that 1) we don't know the original author, who created the picture which takes on the idea that "Invisibility = Privilege" and, 2) although I cannot speak for FemmeInterrupted, what I took from her post was that she found that picture on Pinterest and found a way to bring that specific issue/topic into the larger discussion, so that 3) the discussion might be revitalized by examining aspects of privilege in connection to Femme Invisibility as experienced by people of color who identify as Femme.

May I suggest that even though we don't know technical aspects about the original author's identity, what we do know is that the picture depicts the opinion of a person who identifies as an Afro-Latina Femme Dyke.

In my opinion, the Afro-Latina Femme Dyke states that her experience is widely different than the experience of an Queer White Femme; in that she says she is "sick of QWFs [failure] to recognise that [their] "invisibility" entitles them to more privilege and forms of safety than femmes of color could ever dream of having access to" (reference: see photo first submitted in Post #205, dated 02-24-2013, in this forum thread).

I believe the original author's statement is a valid experience (even though the original author may or may not be a member in this community).

PS/ I too express my appreciation for femmes in our online community who share their experience in life as it pertains to femme invisibility: the 'highs and lows' that are a part of this particular phenomena we femmes experience in our day-to-day lives.

[imperfect_cupcake]

In my opinion, the Afro-Latina Femme Dyke's states that her experience is widely different than the experience of an Queer White Femme; in that she says she is "sick of QWFs [failure] to recognise that [their] "invisibility" entitles them to more privilege and forms of safety than femmes of color could ever dream of having access to" (reference: see photo first submitted in Post #205, dated 02-24-2013, in this forum thread).

ohhhh. see I didn't read that. but of course, that makes sense.
well, of course I get more safety than femmes of colour... when I'm seen as just a straight white woman, and they are seen as just a straight woman of colour, of course I have more privileges. I'm white and that's the dominant culture where I am. So of course she has to deal with way more bullshit and unsafety than I do.

Of course a femme of colour's experience is compounded with racism. Of course it makes things more unsafe, jesus.

Still doesn't negate the dangerous sexist bullshit I have to deal with as an invisible white femme.

I'm afraid I'm still shrugging that she's annoyed with hearing white femmes talk about their problems. Be annoyed, then. If I shut up about that, then jesus, most of the stuff I deal with here, in canada, and not the Congo? Or in Myanmar??? we should all shut the fuck up. I have a roof over my head, I can pay my bills, I can EAT. I have heating. I'm not being shot at or tortured. wtf is femme invisibility in comparison to that, eh?

I also know that when I could not pay my bills, I had £10 a week to live on for two people for food and transport... my lesbian issues weren't exactly on the top of my list. and I had no time to contemplate those things.

first world problem.

so...

and?

I don't know what else to say about it. My life is fucking good in this town. I don't have to worry about being homeless anymore, I don't have to worry about being completely alone with no family, no friends, no citizenship, no visa, working under the table in sex work and hoping no one rats me out.

Life is pretty bloody good now and I really have no right to bitch about these things that I do. Oh no, I don't have enough money to buy clothes this year. Oh well.
Oh shit, I have only enough money for one zone transport and I have to cycle everywhere else (I am lucky enough to have a bike). Oh well.

Oh no, I can't hang with the dykes in my neighbourhood cause they are all assholes about my presentation. Well, I have my old mates living within walking distance from where I life and they love me. that's more than I had before. so boo fucking hoo.

Still, I do like a good moan now and again. But I am under no misconceptions that life is way WAY harder outside of this little present bubble and I'm utterly grateful for it. And I'm mindful that the people I left behind in their level of poverty? can't leave to go home. they *are* home. That goes through my head about every other day. They don't have what I do. I am incredibly aware of that.

I'm not ranting at you K.

I'm just flapping my text gums. So should I just shut up and not type at all about any of my problems because I know that other people have it way the fuck harder than I do right now? Probably.
I just bought a pair of gold-pink glam stilettos for $8 at a massive shoe sale. Life really isn't that bad for me, even if I don't have a lesbian or queer community right now.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

I don't experience the femme's post about being that I shut up. I DO experience invisibility as a femme but more in a queer context than in the straight world. So I am a QWF as referred to in the post but am I *the* QWF? What I mean by this is her post a personal attack on ME? There are any number of things I run across on FB or comments on articles that super piss me off. Do I need to take on each comment as a personal attack on me or can I think about what they are saying, check myself and then adjust my attitude. I am sure I could post some rants about crap I have experienced and have people think wow that is about me! Maybe and maybe not. If it is about me ok so then what? I can personalize it or adjust my attitude or say no. I can still have my feelings.

well fair enough. she might not have ment "if I hear one more..." as not shutting the hell up. She's annoyed and giving voice to how she feels. it's the internet. If no one spoke up it would be a bloody dull place with no info on it, hey?

I'm giving a some text blab to how I feel. And I'm open to being given a word, that's fine too. I'm a blabby type that has an open stream of words that come out of my brain and into text and I process stuff by externalising it. I'm an extrovert. I'm about to have a piece of cheese and get back to study. I'm not twisted into a pretzle. I was annoyed, now that I've emptied my knickers out everywhere, I'm fine.

of course she has every right to say what she thinks and feels about her experience. She also has every right to say "I wish QWFs would all take a cumulative leap off a bridge" if she wants. Up to her. but then I'm used to hearing people tell me "for the love of god Babs, shut up before I shove my fist up your ass!" and I am usually pretty ok with that too