How about butch and butch?

[Bad_boi]

I feel annoyed that masculine/masculine pairings are not accepted as much. I like butches, femmes and sometimes other trans guys. It shouldn't be a big deal at all really. I have a valid place in this community too.

[RockOn]

I have local friends who would be defined as a butch on butch couple. Also, saw a lot of that in the army. Personally, it is not for me. I am a stone butch whose only sexual attraction is with the girly femmes - the ones who only enjoy being "done to" and lack all desires of "doing to."

I say to each individual - just be true to whatever is good and right for you in terms of sexual dynamics. I am respectful of others who are different from me in that aspect.

Edit: Need to add, the type femmes I am speaking of above, outside the bedroom, we share equally in the relationship. For instance, if we were married, she would probably be better in handling our finances and budget. (guess I am thinking about a particular woman now - very smart lady ... but that seems to hold true across the line, for me, anyway)

Sorry to have moved off topic and made it way too much about my preferences and ideas ... I thank the "someone" in advance - who will come in and set things back on track - carry on.

[Ciaran]

Originally Posted by Brock

I have local friends who would be defined as a butch on butch couple. Also, saw a lot of that in the army. Personally, it is not for me. I am a stone butch whose only sexual attraction is with the girly femmes - the ones who only enjoy being "done to" and lack all desires of "doing to."

Edit: Need to add, the type femmes I am speaking of above, outside the bedroom, we share equally in the relationship.

Genuinely not trying to be confrontational but I'm not sure that this post rests comfortably with me i.e. maybe not intentional but my reading of it is that being "done to" is an element of being a "girly femme" and "doing to" is something of a polar opposite.


Also, whether someone is "done to" or "doing to" in the bedroom, why does that necessarily indicate a lack of equality in the bedroom ..... surely, if it's what both parties want, it is as equal in the bedroom as sharing equally in the relationship outside of the bedroom.

[RockOn]

Ciaran, I am not taking your post as confrontational in the least bit. Maybe I was too specific.

I think we do not understand each other. No problems with that.

Hope no one gets offended that historically, I don't get involved in going back and forth trying to provide better explanations. Some understand, some won't. Ciaran, hope you are good with that ... best I can do.

Happy Saturday to You!

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Brock and others

I get your analogy however may I point out that the "doing to" or not has nothing to do with being butch in my experience. I have been with plenty of butch/trans men and boi/ys that do not do to me it does not make them less butch or less masculine. Neither does the fact that I "do to them" just makes them not stone. Just as there are many different types of lovely femmes out there are just as many sexy butches and trans* that fall some where in the spectrum. It is about their masculinity and our connection for me. Just as it is with femmes...Hence why I am queer...gotta love the grays in life sometimes...
Just my experience.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Originally Posted by qtwithguitar

I'm enjoying reading this thread, thanks to everyone for your thoughts. Most of my experience has been dating femmes but lately I have been finding myself thinking about/noticing butches. The community I live in is very femme/butch only. I like that people are talking about this, makes me feel a little less strange for my thoughts.

Welcome to the site qtwithguitar and never feel strange for your thoughts..there is enough of that out there without us doing it to our self....besides how do you know what you like if you don't listen to yourself no matter what everyone else says. During my youth and the area I lived in butch/femme and transmen relationships rarely existed but that dosen't mean I turn away all femmes or other masculine energy. If I did I would not have had the experience I have had nor would I know myself as well as I do. However I will admit of all the dynamic masculine on masculine doesn't receive enough postive attention in my opinion.

[o'queery]

Great Thread.

For me, I have always been been physically/mentally attracted to all of the masculine characteristics of Butch/boi/boy's & Transmen. I never sought out feminine women (for relationships) because my heart was never there. I always say that I adore femmes, I just don't sleep with them.

I came out as lesbian when I was 13 yrs old, and was lucky enough to be in an environment where I could evolve into the boy I now ID as today. I would go so far as to say that I have always felt like more of a fag than anything. I stay positive and grounded enough in who I am that it makes it easier for me to JUST BE.

It's hard to be minority within a minority. It's bad enough when you're not accepted as a whole, but to be an outcast among your own peers leaves a lot of room for my own self acceptance and understanding.

That being said.

The dynamic for me is intense. My ache for all things boy is worn on my sleeve. It's the bond, the understanding, the completeness I feel as an entire person when I am loving and loved by someone who is just like me.

So. Yes. I am.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by Ciaran

Genuinely not trying to be confrontational but I'm not sure that this post rests comfortably with me i.e. maybe not intentional but my reading of it is that being "done to" is an element of being a "girly femme" and "doing to" is something of a polar opposite.


Also, whether someone is "done to" or "doing to" in the bedroom, why does that necessarily indicate a lack of equality in the bedroom ..... surely, if it's what both parties want, it is as equal in the bedroom as sharing equally in the relationship outside of the bedroom.

Long live the logic!

Love it, and not just because I agree.

[RockOn]

Finally getting back to you. Started to last night but dinner put it to the back of the queue.

Ciaran, yesterday morning I was in a hurry to leave the house. I owe you the apology for not correctly reading your initial post to my initial post.

Yes, of course there is total equality in the bedroom (as well as outside it) in regards to how I was describing my particular desires but I left out that part. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Otherwise, I would not have caught it.

Please key in on the two words "the ones" where I stated I am attracted to the girly femmes, "the ones" who only enjoy being done to. There are lots and lots of girly femmes who enjoy something different than what I am describing.

Lastly, being "done to" or "doing to" is not something that is defined as masculine or feminine. At least not to me. I have heard that lingo and have used it for years and years. It has served me in providing a shorthand method to describe ... that is all.

I came back to apologize to Ciaran, correct myself and not for the purpose of making myself appear more agreeable to site members.

[SirLucian]

great thread

[psykftm]

Partly to bump this thing again...

This friend of mine used to be a councilmen, and we've been hanging out and exchanging music (he's a musician) anyway, on top of motivating him to want to change the florida law on being able to change your license to whatever gender you feel is yours, he also became as miserably aware as I am that there is no butch on butch stories, porn, pictures, freakin nothing out there.

He has made a movie before, just a documentary about this lady that helped found a college and put together an orchestra, so he has movie making experience. He was thinking about making a butch on butch movie/love story. Damn that would be so awesome.

If you know any butch/butch movies, let me know because I can't find anything.

Take care,
-psykbutch

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Originally Posted by Bad_boi

I feel annoyed that masculine/masculine pairings are not accepted as much. I like butches, femmes and sometimes other trans guys. It shouldn't be a big deal at all really. I have a valid place in this community too.

It also supports my argument against labels....trust me you would be hard pressed to fit me into a box but I have a valid place in the community as well...do I not?

[Bad_boi]

I'm fine with identities but putting restrictions on them is what pisses me off. Here is some actual quotes I heard from people in the LGBT community-

"Hy can't be a submissive butch, that means he must be a boi"
"All Butches date femmes and vice versa"
"You can be a b-o-i boi not a boy"
"If you don't ID as a boi why is that in your screen name" (LOL WTF?)

Others need to not limit identities. Your id is YOURS. So what if you break a few "rules" of your id. I choose how I identify, its bot a box someone else puts me in.

[whale]

I like both but lately I've been crushing on more butches.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Wondering if i am the only masculine single guy that would more than entertain the idea of enjoying another's masculine energy combining with mine mmm a delicious thought it is

[CyberStud]

Originally Posted by LoyalWolfsBlade

Wondering if i am the only masculine single guy that would more than entertain the idea of enjoying another's masculine energy combining with mine mmm a delicious thought it is

Never say never, but highly unlikely I would ever be attracted to another Butch unless that masculine energy resided in the form of a femme...well then I could be persuaded.

[candy_coated_bitch]

There's definitely butches and trans guys who like other butches and trans guys. I've known a number of couples over the years.

I think sometimes we get stereotypes in our community about sex and attractions and who butches and femmes are--but as individuals we are all much more complicated, of course.

If exploring something with another masculine ID'd person is something you want, I am sure you can find someone open to it.

[starryeyes]

Love who you love! Who cares! :-D

I get ickies from the stereotypes in our community that happen sometimes. We already are a judged group, and a small facet of the gay community. If two people find love in eachother, that is a rare and beautiful thing! Be happy and don't worry about what others think (and I'll live vicariously through you... Lol!)

Smiles

[~ocean]

butch w/ butch OMG LOL ohhh plz ~ who cares ~ we are all gay woman its funny, in real time no one cares BUT hey on the net its an issue ??? love and let love ~ besides I think its sexy ~ ** blows a kiss** to all my B&B friends **

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by candy_coated_bitch

There's definitely butches and trans guys who like other butches and trans guys. I've known a number of couples over the years.

I think sometimes we get stereotypes in our community about sex and attractions and who butches and femmes are--but as individuals we are all much more complicated, of course.

If exploring something with another masculine ID'd person is something you want, I am sure you can find someone open to it.

Yes, I would venture that say in looking at my combined experience with early 20 something FTMs professionally and personally (internet and in person) at this moment, there is a HUGE amount of FTMs who date cis males. Of course, you see them dating other FTMs, but I see a lot of young FTMs in the cis gay men's community or who are married cis males while they were living as females. It is really interesting. I seriously would say the majority of the early 20's FTMs that I currently interact with are coupled with cis males or only date cis/trans males.

Sorry, I suppose I am getting off track...CCB'S statements about trans guys dating other masculine identified individuals got my brain going (but I was talking FTMs specifically)

Butch on butch? Honestly, I only know a couple of Butches IRL, so my experience with butches is only on butch/femme sites. I would venture that in general the younger population are more open to dating more than one gender identities.