For the Love of Intentions!!

I rarely give my real opinion on anything heavy on this or any other site; well, especially this site because I'm not active on any others nowadays.

Yassee, I'm a Brit, have ya noticed? ...and there are so many cultural differences in how we live and express ourselves that it's just safer to keep schtum and stick to the fluffy threads most of the time. I do make forays in the more sexual threads from time to time; although sometimes speaking in those threads can be fraught with the risk of judgement from others, that's mainly in my head I reckon but it still stops me saying some things.
Like HB I'm super open about sex, sexuality and my enjoyment of it, however I keep that for real life, rather than these fora generally.

I have observed the dog-piling both here and on the one you lot call the dash site and it's not pretty. I've also seen it and been part of one particularly notable dog-pile on a UK site - I left it shortly after. In that instance we were backing up the site 'owner' from a vengeful ex and hys easily led (international) friend.

I'm one opinionated dood and despite being a wordsmith, oft times find myself without the words to 'defend' such opinions and to be totally honest, also sometimes lack the depth & breadth of knowledge about a given subject. Under 'pressure' I'm reduced to a babbling idiot. I like to learn though and tend to feel uncomfortable asking the questions here because 'do the work yourself' is meaningless when unaware of the work necessary to 'get upto speed' with the rest.
In real life, face to face, when intention and tone is more easily ascertained, I'll put forward said opinions and be prepared to back up what I think and also learn from others.

A couple of sites I've been part of have 'pet academics' that come in to blind everyone with academic writing when all hell has broken loose about a given subject ...this usually calms or shuts down a heated conversation because most participants can't debate on phd levels.

As a newcomer to an international site it took a long time to carve my own little niche and feel comfortable posting, even in the fluffy threads.

Bit of a mish mash of unfinished thoughts there I'm afraid, but hey, tha's how I roll on a Thursday morning.

[Nic]

Originally Posted by Daktari

I rarely give my real opinion on anything heavy on this or any other site; well, especially this site because I'm not active on any others nowadays.

Yassee, I'm a Brit, have ya noticed? ...and there are so many cultural differences in how we live and express ourselves that it's just safer to keep schtum and stick to the fluffy threads most of the time. I do make forays in the more sexual threads from time to time; although sometimes speaking in those threads can be fraught with the risk of judgement from others, that's mainly in my head I reckon but it still stops me saying some things.
Like HB I'm super open about sex, sexuality and my enjoyment of it, however I keep that for real life, rather than these fora generally.

I have observed the dog-piling both here and on the one you lot call the dash site and it's not pretty. I've also seen it and been part of one particularly notable dog-pile on a UK site - I left it shortly after. In that instance we were backing up the site 'owner' from a vengeful ex and hys easily led (international) friend.

I'm one opinionated dood and despite being a wordsmith, oft times find myself without the words to 'defend' such opinions and to be totally honest, also sometimes lack the depth & breadth of knowledge about a given subject. Under 'pressure' I'm reduced to a babbling idiot. I like to learn though and tend to feel uncomfortable asking the questions here because 'do the work yourself' is meaningless when unaware of the work necessary to 'get upto speed' with the rest.
In real life, face to face, when intention and tone is more easily ascertained, I'll put forward said opinions and be prepared to back up what I think and also learn from others.

A couple of sites I've been part of have 'pet academics' that come in to blind everyone with academic writing when all hell has broken loose about a given subject ...this usually calms or shuts down a heated conversation because most participants can't debate on phd levels.

As a newcomer to an international site it took a long time to carve my own little niche and feel comfortable posting, even in the fluffy threads.

Bit of a mish mash of unfinished thoughts there I'm afraid, but hey, tha's how I roll on a Thursday morning.

Feel a bit of this myself. "Do the work" is fair enough IF you know what the work is in the first place. Being a newbie and seeing an (IMO) over reaction to naïveté or honest ignorance has changed my mind about posting couple of times. Probably better off limiting myself to reading anyway. Doesn't come with the same opportunities to carry my ass in my hands as posting does. Don't mind being smacked when I'm being a brick. Don't appreciate being smacked WITH a brick either, especially when my question is a legitimate search for info or honest ignorance. Intentions pave a lot of roads, not just the one to hell. Lots of well intentioned people say-do stupid crap. Some get on my nerves because they're lazy. Rest are just clueless. Speaking up in either case is well and good until education turns into a display of superiority. Being an ass won't improve anything. Think we speak up because we want change. I'm not getting anywhere if I open the dialogue by driving a wedge between me and the person I'm trying reach. Not advocating laying down in the face of shitty behavior-comments. But generally what I dish out is what I can expect back. Think it's normal for people to get bristley when someone (or a bunch of someones) comes at them with a 2x4. The surprise some people express over defensivness in others feels disingenuous IMO. Who hasn't been defensive? We all know how we get there. I know what response I'll get if I choose the "bend over bitch" route to slapping someone down versus the "foreplay first" path. Hypocritical to say I wouldn't be ruffled if someone came on, guns ablazing, to tell me how wrong I am about something. If someone says "Hey listen Nic..." I'm listening immediately. Takes me longer if I get the "Hey Moron" opener.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I think its been suggested more than once that there is a newbie "dumb question" thread.

I made one for another board, sort of an FAQ, for the identity section. I linked commonly asked questions to threads that addressed them and invited people to ask questions about identity if they were new to the concept, in that thread, so if people felt like having the patience to answer something they've answered 9 squillion times before, they could go in and do so.
And if anyone asked a FAQ in a thread, it was decided that instead of people groaning and rolling their eyes and pretending to cut their wrists open, they would paste the link.

I got so sick of one question in particular because it was such a complicated answer I copied and pasted my answer the last time I did it into the FAQ. I then would just copy and paste the four paragraphs from the FAQ into the thread someone was asking in. Because lots of times faced with the FAQ thread, people would suddenly not want to ask anymore.

Or read.

But I suppose that's like when you go to a company and you wanna talk to someone and they send you to the FAQ section, to look for the answer, you just drop it.

I have been reading a blog about this gal that post pictures of men spreading their legs super wide on crowded transit and preventing people from sitting. She got asked about six questions over and over by blokes. So she finally set up an FAQ to answer those questions. Needless to say lots of dudes don't bother and just ask because they don't want an answer, they want to make a point.

Which it can feel like sometimes to other questions. I'm sure ALL of you have questions that make you mental. Because you just want it printed on a card so you don't have to answer it again, get the same arguments again and you just lose the will to live I t the middle of the conversation. This where in person I start miming hair Kari and then hanging myself with my own intestines. Which is t helpful.

But! Maybe a newbie FAQ thread that gets "stuck" to the top of a.section so its easy to find?

Anyone? And the rule is if you go in there and answer, you can't answer with your "you cocksock!" Reaction at the ready.

What do people think?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

I think its been suggested more than once that there is a newbie "dumb question" thread.

I made one for another board, sort of an FAQ, for the identity section. I linked commonly asked questions to threads that addressed them and invited people to ask questions about identity if they were new to the concept, in that thread, so if people felt like having the patience to answer something they've answered 9 squillion times before, they could go in and do so.
And if anyone asked a FAQ in a thread, it was decided that instead of people groaning and rolling their eyes and pretending to cut their wrists open, they would paste the link.

I got so sick of one question in particular because it was such a complicated answer I copied and pasted my answer the last time I did it into the FAQ. I then would just copy and paste the four paragraphs from the FAQ into the thread someone was asking in. Because lots of times faced with the FAQ thread, people would suddenly not want to ask anymore.

Or read.

But I suppose that's like when you go to a company and you wanna talk to someone and they send you to the FAQ section, to look for the answer, you just drop it.

I have been reading a blog about this gal that post pictures of men spreading their legs super wide on crowded transit and preventing people from sitting. She got asked about six questions over and over by blokes. So she finally set up an FAQ to answer those questions. Needless to say lots of dudes don't bother and just ask because they don't want an answer, they want to make a point.

Which it can feel like sometimes to other questions. I'm sure ALL of you have questions that make you mental. Because you just want it printed on a card so you don't have to answer it again, get the same arguments again and you just lose the will to live I t the middle of the conversation. This where in person I start miming hair Kari and then hanging myself with my own intestines. Which is t helpful.

But! Maybe a newbie FAQ thread that gets "stuck" to the top of a.section so its easy to find?

Anyone? And the rule is if you go in there and answer, you can't answer with your "you cocksock!" Reaction at the ready.

What do people think?

I like the idea a lot. The problem I see is that I don't think there are many threads on here where any gender and identity stuff was pulled apart, discussed, and analyzed. It was all on the dash site. Meaning, a FAQ thread would be hard to do if you wanted to answer the question through links to threads.

It would be grand if someone just wrote a FAQ thread, but that is a hell of a lot of work.

[julieisafemme]

Thank you Miss Tick for talking about the difference between intelligence and education. I am intelligent but do not have a graduate degree. Sometimes the parsing or discourse goes over my head.

As far as "doing the work" we could have a Doing The Work thread and people can post links to the work they have done and give their opinions on the sources. I was told a long time ago to do the work on racism and white privilege. I was told to look at Tim Wise's work. I read his books, subscribed to his FB page and heard him speak. Some of his stuff is very helpful for white people and some of it was not. I find Shakti Butler's work much more helpful as a white person.

We went to a conference recently and the panelists in one workshop talked a lot about "the work". One young woman stood up and asked "what is the work"? It was an excellent question and a lot of good discussion came out of that. There is only so much a thread can do, at least for me. Sometimes I feel like threads and the reading I do outside of it and the discussions I have in real time are my graduate school education. Might be lacking for sure but it is free!

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Daktari

I'm one opinionated dood and despite being a wordsmith, oft times find myself without the words to 'defend' such opinions and to be totally honest, also sometimes lack the depth & breadth of knowledge about a given subject. Under 'pressure' I'm reduced to a babbling idiot. I like to learn though and tend to feel uncomfortable asking the questions here because 'do the work yourself' is meaningless when unaware of the work necessary to 'get upto speed' with the rest.

I don't care to tell people to do the work. I don't believe I have ever done that. Even times when I think to myself, if you really just wanted to know where something comes from why don't you just google it? I figure if I posted it, it's my responsibility to post the source.

But I would never even think "do the work" when someone is asking a question here. I figure it's one of the things that we need to do for each other. It's one of the very best things we can give. I get that sometimes it's tiring to keep rehashing stuff. And there is so much valuable stuff stored on the data base that it is an excellent idea to read the old threads. But just reading is so academic and stark. And it isn't a lot of people's cuppa. So to me it isn't that helpful to tell people to do the work or to read the old threads. Not exclusively that's for sure. I mean you might want to let them know about the resources that are available but not make them feel like that is all that is available to them. And I think that thread idea HB suggested might work really well.

[Cin]

To me humor is difficult and it often does not translate well on a public forum. I tend to shy away from using it, especially since I have a rather quirky sense of humor period. I’m always afraid it will be taken the wrong way. Or that what I think is funny is really inappropriate or offensive and will not be funny to others. I have enough trouble with my sense of humor offline. I am always being told I am too sarcastic. But even when it’s not about sarcasm, which I understand is tough because a lot of people don’t care for it, I still find myself having to explain why something is funny or not funny. I often find something funny that others don’t and vice versa. And sometimes I will be prompted to do something that in the moment I think is mildly humorous and appropriate only to discover too late that others vehemently disagree.

A good example is what I like to refer to as “the luxury apartment incident” and what my wife likes to refer to as “the what the hell is wrong with you incident”. They built these luxury apartments in Cote St Luc a town near Montreal, which to me is really part of Montreal, but it’s not considered to be, whatever, that’s besides the point. But anyway my wife wanted to go have a look at the apartment building and talk to someone about renting there. She thought that would be fun. I thought it would be more enjoyable to walk over hot coals or cut a piece of bamboo into strips and stick them under my finger nails but I love to indulge my wife so off we went.

I didn’t understand why she wanted to waste time looking at a place where we could never ever afford to live, but then I don’t get the concept of window shopping either so. Anyway she told me to let her do the talking. When we pulled into the parking lot she repeated that I should refrain from talking and let her handle this outing. I said sure. So during the conversation with the apartment manager, who kept looking at me like I was the human equivalent of shit on his shoe, I asked if they allowed pets. My wife glared at me because I wasn’t supposed to talk. I forgot. Anyway the guy turned his shoe shit gaze on me and said only cats and small dogs. I asked how they came up with the criteria to distinguish small from medium. I don’t remember his answer because my wife kicked me. Anyway he must have thought I looked dubious because he launched into a speech about the importance of small dogs to lonely women, especially the elderly. And how they are not a problem for anyone. Now don’t ask me why I did this because really I’m not clear on my reasoning. I began to bark. I am very good at sounds. I do animals well, but really sounds in general are my forte. So I launched into my impression of a pack of dogs barking. I always thought it was really an impressive talent. Don’t know why I think that because really no one has ever been impressed. And true to form no one was. But anyway we left shortly after that and my wife did not get to actually see an apartment. She was rather pissed and kept asking what part of don’t talk did I not understand. I was like okay I’ll give you that, but you never said anything about barking.

I often find the exact wrong moment to be funny. It's a talent really. I felt myself falling into that trap on the gun control thread and managed, just barely and in the nick of time, to reign myself in. It's big fun for me to run off on one my tangents yukking up a inappropriate storm, but other people get offended and I hear my asshat but somewhat prophetic aunt telling me how it's all fun and games until someone pokes an eye out. I'm best leaving the humor to the professionals.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

Now don’t ask me why I did this because really I’m not clear on my reasoning. I began to bark. I am very good at sounds. I do animals well, but really sounds in general are my forte. So I launched into my impression of a pack of dogs barking. I always thought it was really an impressive talent. Don’t know why I think that because really no one has ever been impressed. And true to form no one was. But anyway we left shortly after that and my wife did not get to actually see an apartment.

OMG, I laughed out loud at work. Your fault. LOL!

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Martina

OMG, I laughed out loud at work. Your fault. LOL!

LOL, sorry!

Now if only my wife could see the humor in it.

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I don't care to tell people to do the work. I don't believe I have ever done that. Even times when I think to myself, if you really just wanted to know where something comes from why don't you just google it? I figure if I posted it, it's my responsibility to post the source.
*snip*

As you quoted my post can you show me where I claimed you personally say such things?

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Daktari

As you quoted my post can you show me where I claimed you personally say such things?

I never imagined you were talking to me personally. I assumed you were bringing up a subject for discussion. I was discussing. I don’t tell people to do the work. Not that you said I did. I just volunteered that information. I was saying I don’t think it’s the best way to be helpful. Although sometimes it’s crazy making to keep having the same discussions over and over. Sometimes I think I just can’t get into this again. But then someone else manages to do it and often before I know it there is a new wrinkle to an old subject that I can sink my teeth into.

And I quoted you as a jumping off point to continue the discussion about it. I thought you were talking about it already. I certainly didn't feel like you were talking to me. I rarely think anything is about me and I'm usually right.

I apologize if my wording felt accusatory. I really did not mean it that way.