Friendship Circles: Gender Differences in How We Do It?

[Julie]

I find it interesting that you would *cringe,* at the whole "femme friend," thing. For so many of us, we have come here to this space for the connection of others who share a life many of us live. Be it Femme, Butch, Trans, Queer, Lesbian, Bisexual or any of the other identifiers that a person holds or doesn't hold. But the fact is, this space is safe, because we are understood without explanation. At least this has been the case for me. And in real life, be it on the telephone or over coffee... It is comfortable and safe for me. One of the many reasons why the BFP Reunion is so important for me. There, I can get dressed for an evening of elegance and end the night with my people in my pajama's. And they are my people, because they get the core of who I am, regardless if we will be friends outside of that space.

I am grateful for my "Femme friends," and I am grateful for my butch, trans, straight and other friends who are in my life. But there is something quite magical when you can engage with another human being who lives your life, as close to living it as possible. Who you can share intimacies of your personal life and they truly get it. No explanations needed.

I most definitely have different relationships with femme's vs. straight women. Not that one is more important than the other. I believe we are dynamic in nature. It is about communication and speaking the same language.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Julie

I find it interesting that you would *cringe,* at the whole "femme friend," thing.

I don't cringe at having femme friends. I cringe at the whole "girlfriends" thing, the labeling of some friends by gender. Girlfriends vs. what? Friends? Not boyfriends surely. Does that mean they are supposed to provide certain kinds of support or even share a certain kind of gender performance? I have friends who are femme, not femme friends.

Originally Posted by Julie

And they are my people, because they get the core of who I am. . . . But there is something quite magical when you can engage with another human being who lives your life, as close to living it as possible. Who you can share intimacies of your personal life and they truly get it. No explanations needed.

Yeah, I don't get this. My close close friend who is femme does not "get" me any better than my straight male friend. They both "get" me, the particular person who is me. I have ID'd as femme since the early eighties. I have explored my gender identity as much as most people in our community, although certainly less than many. But, no, I do not think that other femmes live my life just because they are femme. Very likely they do not, in fact. I may ID as femme. But my relationships do not conform enough to a pattern that I can say that other femmes live my life.

HoneyB had a great rant on this once. I am too lazy to go find it. It may not be here anyway.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Martina

I don't cringe at having femme friends. I cringe at the whole "girlfriends" thing, the labeling of some friends by gender. Girlfriends vs. what? Friends? Not boyfriends surely. Does that mean they are supposed to provide certain kinds of support or even share a certain kind of gender performance? I have friends who are femme, not femme friends.

Cringing is a strong word and holds a negative connotation. No, it does not imply they are supposed to do anything. Personal relationships are simply that, they are personal and all relationships people hold should be honored and respected. How a person defines those relationships should be respected by all people. Unless of course, the person feels the need to judge.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Julie

Cringing is a strong word and holds a negative connotation. No, it does not imply they are supposed to do anything. Personal relationships are simply that, they are personal and all relationships people hold should be honored and respected. How a person defines those relationships should be respected by all people. Unless of course, the person feels the need to judge.

Well, I don't know that I feel the NEED, but I do clearly have a judgement. It seems limiting, and even trivializing, and laden with gendered expectations to call some friends girlfriends and other friends just friends.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Martina

Well, I don't know that I feel the NEED, but I do clearly have a judgement. It seems limiting, and even trivializing, and laden with gendered expectations to call some friends girlfriends and other friends just friends.

There are no gendered expectations Martina. You create your own expectations based on the box you have created for yourself. If you are uncomfortable using the term "Femme Friends," or Femme Sisters," or "Girlfriends," then those are your choices. I do not begrudge you for not having these relationships and certainly would not shame you for not and most definitely would never cringe at the thought of you having friends with any member of any population, because I respect the relationships of others.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Julie

I find it interesting that you would *cringe,* at the whole "femme friend," thing. For so many of us, we have come here to this space for the connection of others who share a life many of us live. Be it Femme, Butch, Trans, Queer, Lesbian, Bisexual or any of the other identifiers that a person holds or doesn't hold. But the fact is, this space is safe, because we are understood without explanation. At least this has been the case for me. And in real life, be it on the telephone or over coffee... It is comfortable and safe for me. One of the many reasons why the BFP Reunion is so important for me. There, I can get dressed for an evening of elegance and end the night with my people in my pajama's. And they are my people, because they get the core of who I am, regardless if we will be friends outside of that space.

I am grateful for my "Femme friends," and I am grateful for my butch, trans, straight and other friends who are in my life. But there is something quite magical when you can engage with another human being who lives your life, as close to living it as possible. Who you can share intimacies of your personal life and they truly get it. No explanations needed.

I most definitely have different relationships with femme's vs. straight women. Not that one is more important than the other. I believe we are dynamic in nature. It is about communication and speaking the same language.

Julie-

You pretty much nailed the crux of how I feel about some of my friendships with Femmes. I've never sought out Femmes as friends per se, merely had friendships happen organically (as I feel they should for me) but there is definitely something super sacred about that space that is created between two Femmes. (speaking, of course, from my real-world, real-time, actual lived experience)

You and I have had long discussions about desire that feel almost like a "twin" language. I don't have those kinds of discussions with my straight women friends, my male friends, or my Butch friends. Sometimes because e don't get that part of one another and sometimes because it's not safe space.

For me, the space *is* different with Femmes in friendship. Different in wonderful, powerful ways. And I keep coming back to those spaces over and over because something resonates so hard there. I have the ability to hang out on Facebook or in real-time spaces when I want/seek/am amenable to mixed space (mixed space speaking of genders, id's, ways of being). I come back to the Planet over and over (and have enjoyed spaces like the Planet for years) because there IS difference in these spaces and your random "I Love Cooking" websites. You get that, I know. <3

[Medusa]

And I'll add: To me, the term "girlfriends" actually feels very honoring.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Medusa

And I'll add: To me, the term "girlfriends" actually feels very honoring.

Me too Medusa. I have never felt so wrapped up in love, as I have in the presence of my "girlfriends." and that is not to say, our partners don't make us feel this way - but it is very different and it is very sacred.

[Cin]

Maybe it's a femme thing because I never had that kind of relationship or felt that way about butches. I haven't had a lot of close butch friends. Actually I don't think I've had any really close butch friends. And some of the butch friends I had were kind of judgmental and the relationships themselves were complicated. The femme one's too. And the gay and lesbian ones as well. Oddly I felt more relaxed around my straight buddies. My best friend for years was a straight guy. I felt very at ease with him. I never felt I was being judged for being too much or too little anything. Of course I might have less expectations for a straight man than I do for another queer. And maybe what we wanted and needed from each other is different and less fraught with ideals.

Yet I do enjoy coming here and talking to people who understand my preference for a particular kind of partner. People familiar with the butch femme dynamic specifically. But within that dynamic exists a multitude of possibilities.

Although sometimes there is a tendency to have border conflicts around the edges of identities mostly I am grateful to have a place like this to come and share stuff.

[BullDog]

Most of my closest friendships have been with femmes. These are a few women who I have felt comfortable enough to let in and talk about my feelings and things that are important to me and that are always there for me (and I for them), especially when the chips are down. The close femme friends that I have and have had- I do feel they get me quite well, even though they are not butch. It isn't a prerequisite that a person be a femme to be a close friend of mine, but quite a few of my closest ones are or have been. It is nice to have close friends that do get the gender aspects of butch (and appreciate it) and also being part of butch femme community, so yes it is nice and it some ways adds aspects to the friendship that wouldn't be there with someone not familiar with our gender nuances and community.

I do like having butch friends- it usually revolves around doing things rather than deep conversations. There is a nice camaraderie to that. That's not to say I couldn't have a deep conversation with another butch or group of butches. I just haven't really experienced it on any sustained basis. I don't feel there is some sort of butch language that we speak, the way I have heard described by some femmes (I have seen this in action and it is a beautiful thing, so I am definitely not putting it down or questioning it). Why have I not have any really close butch friends that I could talk in depth with? I don't know. Maybe I just haven't met the right butch, lol. Seriously though, the femmes I have gotten close with I think are ones who have taken the time to get to know me and reach out to me. However, I have very much enjoyed being around butches and have had real life butch friends when I lived in Portland. I do miss that.

Other friends not butch or femme, they get me fine as a person but don't necessarily know much about being butch. That of course isn't all there is to me, so it's fine if they don't really understand that part too well.

[Martina]

I think if we assume that all femmes have these kinds of connections or are so similar that we live each other's lives, then we are excluding a great many femmes. I resist that.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Martina

I think if we assume that all femmes have these kinds of connections or are so similar that we live each other's lives, then we are excluding a great many femmes. I resist that.

You make the assumption that we assume this of all femmes. That is another box you have created. No, I do not assume any such thing. I assume we respect one another as individuals and honor the friendships others have created.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Julie

You make the assumption that we assume this of all femmes. That is another box you have created. No, I do not assume any such thing. I assume we respect one another as individuals and honor the friendships others have created.

And I think that we agree that people are allowed to refer to their friends consensually with whatever language those friendships have agreed upon.

That's the amazing thing about how groups of friends or even friendship couples form. Those friends decide between themselves what feels right. Those friends decide what feels honoring and true. I kinda dig that people will gravitate toward one another based on the things they find in common. I have found that a great many of my girlfriends embrace the idea that Femme space is sacred.
There is certainly no contest happening in friendship spaces with which is more special or sacred, I think those sacred spaces are created in the way that we honor it.

<3