Changing last names

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Martina

I doubt it. I think it's all true, what I am saying AND what you are. I think a lot of those femmes had a lot more power than it may have looked like from the outside, as did some straight women. There was not much social reinforcement of the power of butch women in their relationships. And no economic or state. I definitely saw women adopt roles in their relationships. Of course they did. But it was different from heterosexual relationships, and their understanding of it was very different from what we imagine it was like.

And I was very young when I become aware of butches. I barely registered femmes until I got a bit older. My interpretations may be skewed by my limited understanding of what I was seeing. But we interpret the world the way we see it and form our personal beliefs based on these experiences, even though they may be skewed for a variety of reasons. I have no doubt it isn't as simple as my 10 year old brain imagined. And just like now, there is no one way of being butch or femme or being in a butch femme relationship. Your original post that i responded to just struck me and brought up some deeply entrenched memories. So i was like, that's wasn't my experience. I don't think entrenched is exactly the word i'm looking for. Deeply moving, deeply important, deeply personal, deeply affecting, damn I hate it when I can't find the right word.

[Apocalipstic]

Really interesting and thought provoking thread!

As a child coming up in the 60's, 70's and 80's I strongly knew I would never get married and if I did...I would keep my name.

Older now. For me, if I think of things in a heteronormative sense, it would make more sense to take the name of the Butch I love, rather than have that of my abusive father, though I have made peace with that
name.

I don't know if I ever will be in a marriage situation, at 50 it seems unlikely, though not out of the question. I'm really not sure what I would do.

[imperfect_cupcake]

everyone is still, even though ive said it four times now doing this

heteronormative ritual = bad.

yes of course I got my feminine rituals from a white middle class heteronrmative culture. duh. I didnt grow up in a vaccume. I had to do years and years of work to understand which things I was doing because I adored them and which things I did because I was afaird not to, or which things I did because I hadn't thougjt about not doing them.

it took me a good 8 years of pretty full on self deconstruction.

if I took someone's name I would be doing it by choose but its *still* a white European heterosexual ritual. to say it isnt is like saying you got it from matrians or made it up yourself. do I own that it is (acknowledge this where I borrowing it from?). YES.

why is that so hard? I took some Jewish dutch heterosexual rituals too, cause that was my wife's back ground and her upbringing.

I dont see people really grasping what I'm saying yet.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

to say it isnt is like saying you got it from matrians or made it up yourself. do I own that it is (acknowledge this where I borrowing it from?). YES.

why is that so hard?

who is saying this? where else would it come from? I do think when material conditions are different, the same "content" can look the same, but not BE the same. But I've beaten that dead horse too.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

everyone is still, even though ive said it four times now doing this

heteronormative ritual = bad.

yes of course I got my feminine rituals from a white middle class heteronrmative culture. duh. I didnt grow up in a vaccume. I had to do years and years of work to understand which things I was doing because I adored them and which things I did because I was afaird not to, or which things I did because I hadn't thougjt about not doing them.

it took me a good 8 years of pretty full on self deconstruction.

if I took someone's name I would be doing it by choose but its *still* a white European heterosexual ritual. to say it isnt is like saying you got it from matrians or made it up yourself. do I own that it is (acknowledge this where I borrowing it from?). YES.

why is that so hard? I took some Jewish dutch heterosexual rituals too, cause that was my wife's back ground and her upbringing.

I dont see people really grasping what I'm saying yet.

i thought it was a given that we adopted this practice as most of out other ones from straight folks.

Not sure what you were exactly looking for, but for me, it was just a given.