The RuPaul Drag T*Word Controversy

[Martina]

Originally Posted by anaisninja

My personal opinion is that if the person using the word is a member of that group, then they get to decide whether or not it's appropriate to use it. Especially if the group has been historically oppressed or marginalized. Tim Wise gave a good statement about a similar word below. I will never use the T-word, but I would never begrudge RuPaul her right to use it.

RuPaul is a drag queen, not a trans person.

[Aryon]

I feel this way ... Tr**ny may be a word many hear used with distaste and in a derogatory manner ... but I seem to remember back in the days before and after I came out in 1969 that Dyke was used in a way to upset, antagonize, belittle, berate ... I could go on and on, really.

I see nothing wrong with the use of a noun/adjective by people who mean it justly, rather than condescending or derogatorily. I frequently use the word Dyke in place of Lesbian to describe myself and take no offence (even if it is meant) when called one.

My two pennies worth ...

Regards,

Aryon

[anaisninja]

Originally Posted by Martina

RuPaul is a drag queen, not a trans person.

In that case, *He* shouldn't have used the term.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by anaisninja

In that case, *He* shouldn't have used the term.

RuPaul accepts the use of both male and female pronouns. I always refer to people in drag as the gender they are presenting. RuPaul usually presents herself to the public in drag, so I refer to her using female pronouns. As a drag queen, RuPaul is more than entitled to use female pronouns. It's part of the tradition, part of lgbtq history.

RuPaul, as far as I know, is a cisgender gay man, and I agree with you and with Dapper than she should not be using the word "tranny."

I looked up the she-male/mail thing, and I guess the show actually used the term "she-male" as well. I think that is a term no one should use. I can't even imagine transwomen using it among themselves in a friendly inoffensive way. There would always be a barb to it. I just thought it was funny when the phrase "You've got she-mail" was used. But I guess they used the regular version in another context on the show. No. Don't think they should do that.

[imperfect_cupcake]

So if someone is bigendered and not transsexual, they aren't transgendered? I thought transgendered was all kinds of rainbow. Has the meaning changed again? The "drag queens" I knew all considered themselves bigendered. Having two genders that don't display as congruent to their societal norm sex.
This is not transgendered anymore? Is transexual the only transgendered meaning in the US?

[stargazingboi]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

So if someone is bigendered and not transsexual, they aren't transgendered? I thought transgendered was all kinds of rainbow. Has the meaning changed again? The "drag queens" I knew all considered themselves bigendered. Having two genders that don't display as congruent to their societal norm sex.
This is not transgendered anymore? Is transexual the only transgendered meaning in the US?

No Honeybarbara, I'm here in the US and tend to follow the medical definition of the word. I do this mainly because of my vocational back ground and the fact I, myself, happen to be TG. That being said...and as we have witnessed on this site, there are many interpretations of words.


Webster Dictionary - Medical terminology

Transgender - of, relating to, or being a person who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth

Transexual - A person who strongly identifies with the opposite gender and who chooses to live as a member of the opposite gender or to become one by surgery.


So, when I think about it a transexual fall under both terms, but a person who is TG does not always fall under the term transexual. Now, when looking at the definition of Drag Queen ...it does not fall under either term listed above. A Drag Queen or Drag King is a person that dresses as the opposite sex for entertainment


Now regarding the actual subject at hand...I am still unsure how I want to word my feelings about the subject and will return to express it later.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I know people in the uk who both ID as a drag queen and a drag king and it it part of their bigenderism. And although some of them perform, they'd be pretty suprised to find out that one of their genders is only for entertainment value.

I don't agree with that, even slightly. But I don't understand a lot of labeling in the US...

To me tg is not ts. Two different things. But they seem to have both become tg in mainstream press.

And even that definition from Miriam Webster screws up sex and gender.

[stargazingboi]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

And even that definition from Miriam Webster screws up sex and gender.

very true the Webster Dictionary is not fool proof because it is written by humans, but its a guideline.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

I know people in the uk who both ID as a drag queen and a drag king and it it part of their bigenderism. And although some of them perform, they'd be pretty suprised to find out that one of their genders is only for entertainment value.

I don't agree with that, even slightly. But I don't understand a lot of labeling in the US...

To me tg is not ts. Two different things. But they seem to have both become tg in mainstream press.

And even that definition from Miriam Webster screws up sex and gender.

That's ironic. This may be one way in which the UK is more gender-struck than we are. Usually, it goes the other way.

I have known a lot of gay male drag queens who never questioned their (cis)gender. I don't think that makes their drag persona just for entertainment value. They may identify strongly with it and still feel like cismen. Think of all the men over the decades who strongly identified with opera divas. Some may have been transgender. But most, I imagine, were not. There are many ways to be a man. I don't know. Maybe it's my age. But I have known very few gay men (not trans gay men) who ever ID'd as transgender.

Even if you look at all gender as a performance, even if you look at a drag queen and a transwoman standing side by side and see little difference in their outward presentation, they are different, very different. (I know that some transwomen DO do drag.) But drag is, well, different. I am sure you have seen as much drag as I have. But it's nothing like the way a transwoman presents in her daily life, IMO.

Some drag queens will have a moment in their performance when they drop their voice or do some physical gesture that reveals their masculine identity (sometimes a gesture toward the crotch to remind you there is a little something extra there). I guess it's to remind you that it IS drag. It's usually a delightful moment. Drag is so different from cross-dressing -- not a fetish -- and from being trans. There is a lot of hostility for drag queens from some transwomen. The "I am NOT a drag queen" thing. And they aren't. They aren't in drag.

I love drag. I think most drag queens are proud of being drag queens and also proud of being men.

There are clearly a lot more trans and transgender folk among drag kings.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

they aren't transgendered? I thought transgendered was all kinds of rainbow.

Duck! She used the word "transgendered."

Pet peeve of mine -- the meaningless debate over what is wrong with transgenderED and why transgender is better.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joanne..._b_492922.html