The RuPaul Drag T*Word Controversy

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Martina

I don't get wanting to reclaim honky. The others, yes. They are used by dominant groups to oppress others. But honky was typically used by African Americans to describe the group oppressing them. One of the things it connotes is an ignorant bigot who'd like to have his foot on your neck. How is that reclaimable? Being fat can be positive. Being gay is positive. Being a sex positive, body-positive female, yes, all good.

Being an ignorant bigoted oppressor? How is that ever positive?

I get reclaiming "white trash" because that was used against poor people by a more dominant group -- more privileged classes. I like that phrase. But honky? I don't get it. It's like telling Black people, "You don't get to be mad at me anymore."

Martina-


I generally don't like to engage with you because of what you just did above.

I made a statement with what I felt was a pretty large concept and all of the sudden I'm throwing White Oppression back onto Black people.

I mean, for real?????


For anyone else who may want clarification, I am not speaking of reclaiming the word "honky" in relation to Black folks using it to describe their white oppressors. I use that word in reference to the grand "All Things White and White Privileged that Are Ridiculous".

And yes, in some (and most in my case) instances, interchangeably with "white trash".

I'd seriously like this thread to NOT focus on me and my racial oppression if at all possible.

Thanks,
Angie

[imperfect_cupcake]

I guess it depends on how you see it. I had a Hawaiian mate who used to call me cracker, playfully, and It never bothered me. It made me laugh. Why? Because I come from a dominant culture of whiteness that doesn't feel the effects of being one. To me it's just a word with no systemic bite. Therefore, her playfully using it had no oppressive backup. I *could* laugh. To me, all it means is white. I know the background of it, but it doesn't have that "feeling" behind it that other words felt for her.

I also met a straight girl named "g" who was a friend of my best friend. We were sitting around the table and I mentioned an ex by "she". G turned to me and said "oh! Are you a carpet licker?"
I burst out laughing "yes" I said "I lick carpets. Indeed I do. I do."
She grinned and said "I adore you kind of gals" and winked at me and I laughed.

I did not get angry at her use because I could tell by her tone she was being playful and rough-edged. Plus words don't really hurt me all that much anymore, tbh. The more self accepting and self loving I am, the less they seem to bug me.

I was upset at being called "titsy fatarse" by a group of boys before they shoved me off my bike a couple years back, into a bush. But when I told my best friend the story she almost peed herself laughing. At that point I stopped and thought about it and thought, yeah ok I see your point, and grinned. And you know what? It feels a lot easier, a lot lighter and a lot better to laugh when she calls me titsy fatarse now on occasion. That's not to say I wouldn't punch those boys in the face, given the chance, but I don't carry what Said or did around like a sack of wet wool.

The only thing that kind of bothers me is that I'm opineing away on what I think of the word tranny. I know what I think and what my trans friends think. I know which ones are ok with it and which ones aren't. And really, taking people's preferences into account is what friends do. I don't call strangers by that word because I don't know what they think or how they feel. They may not feel I have the right to say it, they may think no one does, they may love it as a term of endearment like I do with playful jousts with who I am.

But I'm not in the public eye saying it - you can't accomidate everyone in that instance. I personally am not trans in any way shape or form. So frankly, what I think is irrelevant. But here I am. Blabbing away... Because for some reason my opinion on the matter just comes pouring out of my mouth.

I do what my friends want. That's about as far as I can go with it.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by candy_coated_bitch

....My response: I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a second. DOES RuPaul really have a responsibility to his community regarding whether or not he calls himself a tranny? Even if publicly? Do you feel you owe a responsibility to your community (whatever that may be) when you call yourself a dyke or a faggot or a honky or a fatass or a cunt? I feel very similarly to you when it comes to reclaimed language and my right to call myself pretty much anything I want.
......

CCB!

I think there is an implied responsibility with any kind of "fame" and maybe it's fair and maybe it isn't. I'd like to think that people get to be famous and still get to be themselves without society putting a bunch of bullshit expectations on them but I think more often than not people *do* have expectations of anyone with any level of visibility.

It almost seems like we (the general) hold people with visibility up to this weird standard of "You now have power so you must go forth and represent". And that can be a really good thing (Laverne Cox on the cover of Time this week!!) and a really shitty thing (Miley Cyrus is "crazy" and a "whore" because she dares do what the fuck she wants with appropriate caveats to the fact that her fame machine is driving the boat).

Today I'm wondering what the solution would be. To completely erase the use of the T-word for any and everyone or to step back and observe the people who use it and decide whether or not we agree with it for ourselves (meaning whether or not we give them our time, attention, or money)?

And I'm falling in line with Honeybarbara here as far as looking at the ridiculousness of me even having an opinion around the use of the word when I'm not Trans.

But that's the way the world works. We're always looking at what other people say and do and always having opinions on it. It's almost exhausting.

a

[Martina]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

I guess it depends on how you see it. I had a Hawaiian mate who used to call me cracker, playfully, and It never bothered me. It made me laugh. Why? Because I come from a dominant culture of whiteness that doesn't feel the effects of being one. To me it's just a word with no systemic bite. Therefore, her playfully using it had no oppressive backup. I *could* laugh. To me, all it means is white. I know the background of it, but it doesn't have that "feeling" behind it that other words felt for her.

I am not talking about Medusa, but the use of words, epithets that can be used against groups of people. I think that while it might be a tangent, it is not entirely off track in this thread.

I do think this instance -- cracker -- is different than the honky example. Cracker was coined by more privileged white folks to describe poorer people. In the instance you cite, a POC used it to describe you, but the history and most common usage of the word was that of one class disparaging a less privileged group. Over time, it has been reclaimed and is used by some people with pride. It doesn't have much bite at all.

And I honestly wasn't talking about how white people feel being called honky. I was talking about the message it sends about race to even attempt to reclaim it. It is not comparable to cracker or white trash because it was used by the subaltern class to describe the dominant other. For the dominant group to make any attempt to reclaim it is to send some questionable messages, including the racist past of my people doesn't matter anymore.

To me, it is worth thinking about these cases because, as people have said, these debates about the language of naming can get complicated and overdetermined. And we are ultimately talking about the real lived relations of power among people now.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I was under the impression cracker came from "cracker back" as in whipping someone.

Honky wouldn't bother me either, it means nothing. There is nothing to reclaim. I'm in a dominant group. Same thing, to me, as cracker. You may feel differently about those words, neither of them hold any bite for me at all. I'm white and privileged and there is no systemic oppression to go with that word. So... *shrug* I don't care if someone calls me that. I personally wouldn't use either term because I'm not American so I did not grow up with those terms at all.

Bitch, slut, pervert, lezzo, titsy, etc... Sure.

It's not up to me if it's not a word that describes a group I'm not in.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

I was under the impression cracker came from "cracker back" as in whipping someone.

I thought it had to do with bragging, kind of like the bragging contests people in America used to have. It's kind of a rural American way of talking and telling stories from the past. Now, it just means a rural white person from Florida or Georgia. Or a style of architecture.

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

Honky wouldn't bother me either, it means nothing. There is nothing to reclaim. I'm in a dominant group.

I agree.

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

Same thing, to me, as cracker.

For you and me, yes. For the poor white folks of the region, maybe there was. In any case, the work is done.

Originally Posted by honeybarbara

It's not up to me if it's not a word that describes a group I'm not in.

I don't know. I feel like I have a stake in some of it. I came up as a lesbian around gay men, a few of whom did drag. I feel connected to that culture, especially as it was back then. I feel connected to the guys who worshiped opera divas even though it wasn't something I did. I am not claiming membership in a group I don't belong to. But I do feel affected when the larger culture negotiates how to describe it. It matters (some) to me.

I guess I have an affection for drag and drag queens because I felt comfortable and safe among them. From the very beginning -- my coming out -- lesbian culture was in the throes of some extreme infighting that affected me. It was my home in a way that gay male culture couldn't be, but safe? No. Being around gay men has usually been that. Not always. There's a lot of sexism there. But it's been a place to be queer and accepted. I also just appreciate the forms it has taken. I loved the opera diva folk for caring so damned much, for being able to talk for HOURS about opera and culture. I liked that world. It's pretty much gone. AIDS. But it meant a lot to me. And what has replaced it -- well it was always there -- but what is left is so materialistic. I have some awesome gay male friends and acquaintances. But the culture and what it contributes -- it's a lot about money and the things it will buy. As is the culture at large.

So I feel kind of attached to drag culture, at least as it was.

Re the trans people who are offended, as an ally, I guess I do have a right to speak up. And, in fact, I come down on their side of the argument in spite of my regard for RuPaul and my affection for drag culture.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Ok, I just read up on the work and it has several meanings. One that you describe and one that I did. There is more than one use for it, my friend meant it in the way I described.

I don't believe I have any right to tell a trans person to be, or not to be, offended by then term tranny. I know some who use it (and other terms I won't state here because I know the offense people will take to it and frankly I don't want to be in a shit storm over words others are comfortable over) and I know some who find it offensive. I cannot tell someone who used the ID to stop it. No more than a man should tell me to stop using the term lezzo to describe myself. I can't insist on someone to accept it. I can only respect someone's wishes to use or not use it as part of their own history and ID. That's what I mean.

[candy_coated_bitch]

Originally Posted by Medusa

CCB!

I think there is an implied responsibility with any kind of "fame" and maybe it's fair and maybe it isn't. I'd like to think that people get to be famous and still get to be themselves without society putting a bunch of bullshit expectations on them but I think more often than not people *do* have expectations of anyone with any level of visibility.

It almost seems like we (the general) hold people with visibility up to this weird standard of "You now have power so you must go forth and represent". And that can be a really good thing (Laverne Cox on the cover of Time this week!!) and a really shitty thing (Miley Cyrus is "crazy" and a "whore" because she dares do what the fuck she wants with appropriate caveats to the fact that her fame machine is driving the boat).

Today I'm wondering what the solution would be. To completely erase the use of the T-word for any and everyone or to step back and observe the people who use it and decide whether or not we agree with it for ourselves (meaning whether or not we give them our time, attention, or money)?

And I'm falling in line with Honeybarbara here as far as looking at the ridiculousness of me even having an opinion around the use of the word when I'm not Trans.

But that's the way the world works. We're always looking at what other people say and do and always having opinions on it. It's almost exhausting.

a

I don't believe there is any "implied" responsibility that comes with fame. Frankly, most celebrities just act like idiots and we (as a culture) eat that shit up. We have celebrities that are pretty much famous FOR being idiots. I don't see why queer folks need to be ambassadors to the world just because they are queer and famous. I think the queer community DOES expect that sometimes because by and large there are not very many out celebrities. But just because something is expected it does not make any person obligated to deliver.

Yes, I do see the irony in a bunch of cis folks sitting around debating whether or not the word "tranny" is offensive. Let me be clear: I am not trying to say any trans person SHOULDN'T be offended by the word. That is obviously not up to me. And I would never force the word on any trans person who found it offensive or asked me to stop using it. I *DO* use it some in my personal life with select people. I wouldn't use it in conversation here on the forums because it isn't a word I feel "belongs" to me in the same way others do. I do have manners and I have a good sense of where the lines are.

However, I also feel I am not the arbiter of who gets to identify with the word tranny. If someone says they identify with a reclaimed word I will generally accept that. I've found that most people do not inappropriately reclaim language for THEMSELVES. (Which is different from using language as a weapon.) I don't hear too many cis men calling themselves dykes and cunts, for instance. I mean--just why would they? I'm sure it could happen but it's not a line I feel super compelled to police.

My first serious partner when I was growing up as a baby queer was a transvestite. And I came up among transvestites and queens. The word "tranny" was part of my queer vocabulary even before "femme" was! So, it doesn't sound weird or out of the ordinary or offensive to me at all. Honestly--I'm surprised there is as much outrage from the trans community about this as there is. I know there will always be people who are offended by certain words, and that's ok. But to me, I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that it's devastatingly offensive for a drag queen to use the word tranny. I also concede that my own personal experience informs that feeling.

I am REALLY freaking cranky about reclaimed language, I will admit. I think that people have the right to call themselves what they want, use whatever labels they want, and reclaim whatever historically negative word they want and turn it into something powerful. That's also why I feel invested--because of the principle of the thing. I can't even tell you how much shit I got over my screen name when I first started posting here (and still get). OMFG--I got hateful private messages and was told I should change my screen name and that my choice of my name was offensive, stupid, thoughtless, anti-woman. I was told I should leave, that I obviously had no experience with butch/femme community. I was told I was obviously just a 22 year cis dude trying to invade sacred space. It was RIDICULOUS. And actually, this screen name is very carefully selected and very meaningful to me. So it was really fucking annoying. I know there are a lot of women who hate the word bitch, and I get that and I get why--but I will NEVER stop using it. And it's kind of just too bad for them. I do get where RuPaul is coming from. This is just one example.

Also, on a final rambling note: I appreciate both the Laverne Coxes and the Rupauls/Miley Cyruses of the world. I think we need both. Laverne Cox is beautiful and smart as hell and spunky. I am glad she is visible as a trans woman, I am happy that the trans community has her as a representative. It's wonderful and I celebrate it. But she is also visible as a trans woman BECAUSE she is beautiful and smart and spunky WITHOUT being too threatening. She's relatable. Which is not a bad thing--like I said, we need people like her. But I think we also need the people that say FUCK YOU to the entire world and do what they want and show us, even if inadvertently so, why being yourself, even if it offends hoards of people, is really the most valuable thing you can do at the end of the day. I do think Laverne Cox does that, she is just a lot more graceful at it. I just happen to admire grace and bitchy attitude in equal measure.