Obama's Health Care Overhaul: Your Opinions

[key]

Originally Posted by casey35

yep it sounds like a hell away to go . I would just perfer to be toss in jail then i would not have to worry about it or maybe we all need to go on medicaid and let someone else take care of us.

I have no doubt that you work hard for whatever you have in your life. I just wonder why you are so convinced that most other people (even poor people) work as hard as you do? And that even with working so hard are still not able to provide something as basic as health care for themselves or their families?

I am not saying there are no freeloaders in our country, in every country. But why would you make everyone else, everyone who works as hard as you do, suffer without basic care because of them?

BTW, if you make less than 250K you got a tax cut this year, did you know that?

Honestly, it sounds like you are bitter about how hard you have to work and still not be able to afford your basic needs - like decent on demand health care. It seems to me that you are taking your frustration out on your fellow citizens instead of the broken system that values astronomical profits for a few over basic care for everyone.

Which is more important to you? That a few among us are able to get filthy rich, or that everyone get basic care and not have to go bankrupt to cover medical bills? Keeping the system that way it is (for profit) enshrines mega-profit for some over care for all.

[casey35]

Originally Posted by key

I have no doubt that you work hard for whatever you have in your life. I just wonder why you are so convinced that most other people (even poor people) work as hard as you do? And that even with working so hard are still not able to provide something as basic as health care for themselves or their families?

I am not saying there are no freeloaders in our country, in every country. But why would you make everyone else, everyone who works as hard as you do, suffer without basic care because of them?

BTW, if you make less than 250K you got a tax cut this year, did you know that?

Honestly, it sounds like you are bitter about how hard you have to work and still not be able to afford your basic needs - like decent on demand health care. It seems to me that you are taking your frustration out on your fellow citizens instead of the broken system that values astronomical profits for a few over basic care for everyone.

Which is more important to you? That a few among us are able to get filthy rich, or that everyone get basic care and not have to go bankrupt to cover medical bills? Keeping the system that way it is (for profit) enshrines mega-profit for some over care for all.

No i am not bitter because i do not have healthcare. What i do not like is the way they are going about things. I get tired of hearing our congress saying if you not for this then we are unamerican. I am kinda wondering what you all going to say when they put a heavy tax on us to where we cant afford things. When i was in Scotland do you know how many had cars or lived with there parents and grandparents because they was so heavily tax that they could not afford to live on there own. Let see what the bill is and see how bad they fuck us before i will agree to anything.

[key]

It really gets under my skin when I see people who would rather let other people suffer A LOT than to have themselves suffer a little bit. In my world, all citizens should be required to sacrifice a little bit so that all of us can have basic standards of living, a social safety net. It's called living in a civilized world - caring about complete strangers simply because they share the planet with us.

When I think about it, it is really a selfish reason why I care enough about people I don't even know to sacrifice some of my hard earned money for them. I know that as hard as I work (self employed for over 10 years now), and as healthy as I am (95% veggie, fit as a fiddle) I am not immune to the twists of fate and misfortunes that can befall any of us. I would hope and pray that complete strangers would care about me if I needed them.

Not to mention that my neighbor getting treated for their TB, or SARS, or H1N1 asap is in MY best interest!

If some freeloader takes advantage of that big deal! I would rather 10 freeloaders get something for nothing than to let one honest person suffer needlessly. But, that is just me – even though I do not claim Christianity as my one religion, I do believe that Jesus had it right when he said “Whatsoever you do to the least among you, that you do unto Me.”

[theoddz]

Originally Posted by casey35

No i am not bitter because i do not have healthcare. What i do not like is the way they are going about things. I get tired of hearing our congress saying if you not for this then we are unamerican. I am kinda wondering what you all going to say when they put a heavy tax on us to where we cant afford things. When i was in Scotland do you know how many had cars or lived with there parents and grandparents because they was so heavily tax that they could not afford to live on there own. Let see what the bill is and see how bad they fuck us before i will agree to anything.

Casey, I'm not picking on you here, but do you make $250K/year or more?? What's wrong with "how they're going about it"?? Because your taxes haven't gone up and won't go up to support this bill, which:

* Insurance companies can no longer deny coverage to children who were born with illnesses or have pre-existing conditions.
* Insurance companies are prohibited from dropping people because they get sick.
* They must allow children to stay on their parent's insurance plans until age 26.
* Starting in 2014, insurance companies can no longer deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions.
* Insurance companies in 2014 will be barred from imposing annual limits on the amount of coverage people can get. There also will be no lifetime coverage limits.
* 32 million Americans who are currently uninsured will be covered.
* The uninsured and self-employed people will be able to buy insurance through state-based exchanges with government subsidies given to those who can't afford it.
* There will be limits on what people have to pay for premiums and out-of-pocket costs based on income.
* Wasteful spending on insurance company executive salaries will be stopped by limiting how much of people's insurance premiums can go toward company administration and profits. A company that goes over the limit has to rebate it back to consumers.
* Insurance companies will be forced to end discrimination against women by charging more for groups with high percentage of women.
* Large employers will pay a penalty if they don't provide health coverage and their employees have to get subsidies in the exchanges to buy their own insurance.
* Small businesses that provide their workers with insurance will get tax credits that cover 35% of premium costs immediately and 50% in 2014.
* Seniors will get additional help for prescription drugs by closing the Medicare "donut hole" or coverage gap, which requires patients to pay the full cost of prescription drugs that cost between $2,830 and $6,440. The donut hole affects about one in four Medicare recipients, forcing them to start splitting their drugs or stop taking medications altogether. Seniors who fall into the donut hole will get a $250 rebate this year, a 50% discount on brand-name drugs starting next year and the donut hole will be completely eliminated by 2020.
* In 2018, there will be an excise tax on employer-provided health plans costing more than $27,500 for family coverage and $10,200 for individual coverage. The tax is imposed only on the amount of the premium that goes over the threshold. It is to be paid by the insurance companies.
************************************************** *****

You see, I don't see Obama's health bill as costing either YOU or ME more in taxes, because neither you or I make over $250K/year. In fact, you and me both are going to see our taxes actually go down.

I just don't understand why you think something like this is about taxing either you or me to death......but it is going to cost the big health insurance companies their huge profit margins and obscene executive pay and bonuses. The only way these insurance companies can "fight back" is to spread lies and misinformation to the average American. They hope to generate fear, and that fear will manifest itself in making John and Jane Q. Public run to the voting box and cast his/her vote in favor of keeping Wall Street in control of our political system.

My suggestion to anyone in this country who is buying into the misinformation and lies is to turn off Fox News and do some reading. Spend LESS time with Pogo.com, American Idol and the X-Box and educate yourself on political happenings and where the money flow in this country is heading. Become active in the political process and know who and what you are voting for.....and why.

Knowledge really is power.

~Theo~

[Jess]

Originally Posted by theoddz

Casey, I'm not picking on you here, but do you make $250K/year or more?? What's wrong with "how they're going about it"?? Because your taxes haven't gone up and won't go up to support this bill, which:

* Insurance companies can no longer deny coverage to children who were born with illnesses or have pre-existing conditions.
* Insurance companies are prohibited from dropping people because they get sick.
* They must allow children to stay on their parent's insurance plans until age 26.
* Starting in 2014, insurance companies can no longer deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions.
* Insurance companies in 2014 will be barred from imposing annual limits on the amount of coverage people can get. There also will be no lifetime coverage limits.
* 32 million Americans who are currently uninsured will be covered.
* The uninsured and self-employed people will be able to buy insurance through state-based exchanges with government subsidies given to those who can't afford it.
* There will be limits on what people have to pay for premiums and out-of-pocket costs based on income.
* Wasteful spending on insurance company executive salaries will be stopped by limiting how much of people's insurance premiums can go toward company administration and profits. A company that goes over the limit has to rebate it back to consumers.
* Insurance companies will be forced to end discrimination against women by charging more for groups with high percentage of women.
* Large employers will pay a penalty if they don't provide health coverage and their employees have to get subsidies in the exchanges to buy their own insurance.
* Small businesses that provide their workers with insurance will get tax credits that cover 35% of premium costs immediately and 50% in 2014.
* Seniors will get additional help for prescription drugs by closing the Medicare "donut hole" or coverage gap, which requires patients to pay the full cost of prescription drugs that cost between $2,830 and $6,440. The donut hole affects about one in four Medicare recipients, forcing them to start splitting their drugs or stop taking medications altogether. Seniors who fall into the donut hole will get a $250 rebate this year, a 50% discount on brand-name drugs starting next year and the donut hole will be completely eliminated by 2020.
* In 2018, there will be an excise tax on employer-provided health plans costing more than $27,500 for family coverage and $10,200 for individual coverage. The tax is imposed only on the amount of the premium that goes over the threshold. It is to be paid by the insurance companies.
************************************************** *****

You see, I don't see Obama's health bill as costing either YOU or ME more in taxes, because neither you or I make over $250K/year. In fact, you and me both are going to see our taxes actually go down.

I just don't understand why you think something like this is about taxing either you or me to death......but it is going to cost the big health insurance companies their huge profit margins and obscene executive pay and bonuses. The only way these insurance companies can "fight back" is to spread lies and misinformation to the average American. They hope to generate fear, and that fear will manifest itself in making John and Jane Q. Public run to the voting box and cast his/her vote in favor of keeping Wall Street in control of our political system.

My suggestion to anyone in this country who is buying into the misinformation and lies is to turn off Fox News and do some reading. Spend LESS time with Pogo.com, American Idol and the X-Box and educate yourself on political happenings and where the money flow in this country is heading. Become active in the political process and know who and what you are voting for.....and why.

Knowledge really is power.

~Theo~

While the list of goodies above regarding insurance reform ( I truly don't see this as healthcare reform) is all good.. I see no where limits being placed on insurance companies for what they can charge or how often they can increase. That is one of the greater issues I have with this bill. It is NOT what Mr Obama wanted. It is not what our country needs. It may be a start, but until insurance companies get capped and until pharmecuticals have shorter limits set on the time before drugs can be made generically, then we are still at their mercy. Until malpractice suits stop making decisions for our medical professionals and until more med students become general practioners again instead of cosmetic surgeons ( because that is where the big bucks vs low risk is), we are still at their mercy.

Frankly, this country and the folks running it have forgotten what "mercy" really means.

[theoddz]

Originally Posted by Jess

While the list of goodies above regarding insurance reform ( I truly don't see this as healthcare reform) is all good.. I see no where limits being placed on insurance companies for what they can charge or how often they can increase. That is one of the greater issues I have with this bill. It is NOT what Mr Obama wanted. It is not what our country needs. It may be a start, but until insurance companies get capped and until pharmecuticals have shorter limits set on the time before drugs can be made generically, then we are still at their mercy. Until malpractice suits stop making decisions for our medical professionals and until more med students become general practioners again instead of cosmetic surgeons ( because that is where the big bucks vs low risk is), we are still at their mercy.

Frankly, this country and the folks running it have forgotten what "mercy" really means.

I so totally agree with you, Jess, but like you said, it's "a start" in the right direction. I would have liked to have seen this bill go waaaaaay further. In fact, I'd have liked to have seen a single payer system be implemented, right off the bat. Thing is, too many people have been making far too much money for far too long and they won't be giving it up overnight and certainly not without a huge ol' fight!! Just this little big of legislation in the right direction has big insurance chafing at the bit and throwing millions of their ill-begotten "blood money" into the grist mills of lies and misinformation systems, such as Faux/Fox News. It's working, too....just look at all the people who mistakenly believe that their taxes are going to go through the roof, instead of actually being lowered. Until that blood money is wrested from the grips of the fat cats, we won't see true health reform, but slow-acting hybrids and "half dones", until the job is done.

Mother says, "How do you eat an elephant??......One bite at a time."

~Theo~

[casey35]

Keys, I have mercy for those who work but if u are lazy ass then i say take a flying leap. I must not be liberal thank god. Seems congress thinks that money is grown on trees thats why they are spending it as fast as they can make it before you know it gas will be 10 dollars a gallon and milk will be 8. When you are living paycheck to paycheck like I am I have to worry about taking care of me and my own cant worry about taking care of anyone else. If you consider this selfish I am sorry but I was raised to be self reliant not let government take care of me. My question is who going to be paying this back us, our children, grandchildren, or great grandchildren?

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by casey35

Keys, I have mercy for those who work but if u are lazy ass then i say take a flying leap. I must not be liberal thank god. Seems congress thinks that money is grown on trees thats why they are spending it as fast as they can make it before you know it gas will be 10 dollars a gallon and milk will be 8. When you are living paycheck to paycheck like I am I have to worry about taking care of me and my own cant worry about taking care of anyone else. If you consider this selfish I am sorry but I was raised to be self reliant not let government take care of me. My question is who going to be paying this back us, our children, grandchildren, or great grandchildren?

So how much faux news do you watch? Did you not just read what Theo posted? That is the actual language of the law, it isn't a bill anymore it's the law. If one makes 250K a year or more, your taxes will go up, but not astronomically. If you make less than 250K a year your taxes will go down. Please stop and read the law before you quote the ignorance of faux news.

[theoddz]

Originally Posted by casey35

Keys, I have mercy for those who work but if u are lazy ass then i say take a flying leap. I must not be liberal thank god. Seems congress thinks that money is grown on trees thats why they are spending it as fast as they can make it before you know it gas will be 10 dollars a gallon and milk will be 8. When you are living paycheck to paycheck like I am I have to worry about taking care of me and my own cant worry about taking care of anyone else. If you consider this selfish I am sorry but I was raised to be self reliant not let government take care of me. My question is who going to be paying this back us, our children, grandchildren, or great grandchildren?

Casey, again, I'm not picking on you, but I do see the fear in your posts, and yes, I want to see our gov't "live within its means" as much as you do. I don't relish the thought of our children, grandchildren, greats and on down the line, have to pick up the tab and be burdened with financial irresponsibility engaged in during our generation's tenure. This isn't what's going to happen with this legislation, however.

Please, PLEASE, read a little more about the financial impact and SAVINGS that health care reform NOW....THIS legislation, in particular, will generate, over the next two to three decades. We'll be saving our economy trillions of dollars.....ya, read that.....trillions. Did you know that many of the points listed in my post above that comprise this law were actually originally proposed by more than one conservative Republican "think tanks" in recent years gone by?? Mitt Romney (conservative Republican), when he was Governor of the State of Massachusetts, revamped that state's health care system by implementing many of these very same principles and required each and every citizen of Massachusetts to purchase health insurance. He did the very same thing that this national law does, only on a state level and it's been extremely successful in that state, not to mention the savings it has made in that state's budget.

I'm not, in any way, trying to discourage your opinion. I think it's wonderful that you have one on this issue, because so many folks are undecided. That's okay. All's I'm asking is that you have an educated opinion, and not one borne of fear, lies and misinformation. Really, research it!!! At least keep an open mind and read more. You might be (pleasantly) surprised.

~Theo~

[Linus]

Originally Posted by casey35

Keys, I have mercy for those who work but if u are lazy ass then i say take a flying leap. I must not be liberal thank god. Seems congress thinks that money is grown on trees thats why they are spending it as fast as they can make it before you know it gas will be 10 dollars a gallon and milk will be 8. When you are living paycheck to paycheck like I am I have to worry about taking care of me and my own cant worry about taking care of anyone else. If you consider this selfish I am sorry but I was raised to be self reliant not let government take care of me. My question is who going to be paying this back us, our children, grandchildren, or great grandchildren?

What about those that can't work (e.g., many soldiers coming back from various locations are suffering PTSD), cannot find work (many people are more than willing to work but can't even find the simplest of jobs) or have retired from work finally (however, many are going back to work because they can't afford to retire)?



The reality is there will be no one single answer that will address everything nor will it be solved in a year. We cannot end up back in the 1950s where prosperity seemed endless. Society has drastically changed thanks to advertising (increased our consumerism beyond what, IMO, we really need), the internet (communication -- both medium and language -- has changed drastically), cultural advances, etc. I think as long as we don't lose our humanity, things will work out in some manner (we may not know what it is now and it may be vastly different in the future but we should try to avoid losing our hope and optimism in general).

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by casey35

Keys, I have mercy for those who work but if u are lazy ass then i say take a flying leap. I must not be liberal thank god. Seems congress thinks that money is grown on trees thats why they are spending it as fast as they can make it before you know it gas will be 10 dollars a gallon and milk will be 8. When you are living paycheck to paycheck like I am I have to worry about taking care of me and my own cant worry about taking care of anyone else. If you consider this selfish I am sorry but I was raised to be self reliant not let government take care of me. My question is who going to be paying this back us, our children, grandchildren, or great grandchildren?

I'm curious, how much are you willing to cut defense spending? How many years are YOU prepared to spend away from YOUR family and friends fighting in some country that you may not have known existed a year before you got shipped there? Because someone is doing that job, and it most likely isn't you, and you ARE depending upon someone else to do that.

Why is it that we can spend any amount of money you mention on defense but we begrudge even public education!

And our country was *not* founded on 'self-reliance'. You will not find self-reliance in the Constitution nor will you find self-reliance in the Declaration of Independence (yes, I checked). If we were founded on self-reliance may I ask why the Benjamin Franklin said, "we must all hang together, or surely we will all hang separately". Doesn't sound very "I got my liberty, too bad about yours you lazy ass" to me. If we were founded on self-reliance, why did the founders create a postal service or the first public library system? If we were founded on self-reliance why did we create a public education system?

We are not orangutans, Casey. If we were, your philosophy would be perfectly in keeping with the nature of our species. Orangutans have minimal contact with one another and spend most of their time alone. But we aren't orangs. We are a social primate.

Years ago, E.O. Wilson, the great entomologist, was asked what he thought of communism. His response was, "great idea, wrong species". Well, I would say that the same applies to libertarianism, great idea, for orangutans, but not the right system for our species.