Pityphuck and Michfest 2014

[nycfem]

One of the things I like about Michfest is how diverse it is and how different groups of women are given their space to bond: e.g. the lesbian separatists, the bdsm folks (and, yeah, the twilight zone is amazing), lesbians with disabilities, etc. The thing is that each of these groups even though they may have conflicts (e.g. bdsm and separatists have gotten into it at times), discussions and educating one another is encouraged. And yet... women who were born with genitalia that didn't watch their gender identity are not given a space. Prior to the crackdown trans women did have workshops (I went!) to talk about what it was like to be a trans lesbian for those who were interested and had questions and even concerns. However, after it was made clear (also witnessed by me) that that was no longer allowed and anyone who was out about being a trans lesbian would be physically escorted out by security, usually in tears (which I also witnessed), I felt like an important part of the diversity among lesbians and among women was missing. Michfest has amazing music, discussions, food, the whole vibe, and the experience of being both separate and together. Discriminating against trans lesbians to the point of making them set up tents outside the entrance and not be allowed in to buy crafts and see friends and do all the fun things at Michigan just sickened me. It is also interesting to note that in my experience wbw who were in the process of transitioning to men were MORE welcome than fully transitioned lesbian identified trans women. The policy of Michfest is not unique to Michfest. For instance, Olivia cruises also has a policy that they do not welcome trans lesbians. It must be hard to be a trans lesbian woman who may be extra tall or have a low voice and feel like one has to hide their past in order to be welcomed.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by nycfem

One of the things I like about Michfest is how diverse it is and how different groups of women are given their space to bond: e.g. the lesbian separatists, the bdsm folks (and, yeah, the twilight zone is amazing), lesbians with disabilities, etc. The thing is that each of these groups even though they may have conflicts (e.g. bdsm and separatists have gotten into it at times), discussions and educating one another is encouraged. And yet... women who were born with genitalia that didn't watch their gender identity are not given a space. Prior to the crackdown trans women did have workshops (I went!) to talk about what it was like to be a trans lesbian for those who were interested and had questions and even concerns. However, after it was made clear (also witnessed by me) that that was no longer allowed and anyone who was out about being a trans lesbian would be physically escorted out by security, usually in tears (which I also witnessed), I felt like an important part of the diversity among lesbians and among women was missing. Michfest has amazing music, discussions, food, the whole vibe, and the experience of being both separate and together. Discriminating against trans lesbians to the point of making them set up tents outside the entrance and not be allowed in to buy crafts and see friends and do all the fun things at Michigan just sickened me. It is also interesting to note that in my experience wbw who were in the process of transitioning to men were MORE welcome than fully transitioned lesbian identified trans women. The policy of Michfest is not unique to Michfest. For instance, Olivia cruises also has a policy that they do not welcome trans lesbians. It must be hard to be a trans lesbian woman who may be extra tall or have a low voice and feel like one has to hide their past in order to be welcomed.

Ever wonder why we use terms like wbw vs transwoman, cisman vs transman, <fillinyourpreference> lesbian vs trans lesbian?

I dunno for sure but it sure looks like we are making distinctions for a reason.

As for policies of MWMF and Olivia - I cant find anything anywhere that addresses such a thing. I see MWMF as stating its intent is for wbw and it is hoped this would be respected.

Olivia had to deal with backlash when lesbians complained about the furry faces and furry chests on their lesbian cruises a few years back.

As to the reason why transmen and biological females who consider themselves transgendered experience less difficulties in womens space? The radfems have an answer for that.....no woman left behind. Woman being defined as one who has female dna.

[nycfem]

Note that it is not noted that Olivia would protect trans lesbian women from being harassed in the way described below.

From:
"Olivia GuestServices" <GUESTSERVICES@OLIVIA.COM>
Add sender to Contacts

Hello -

Olivia strives to provide an all Lesbian environment but we have had MTF transgendered guests join us on our vacations. Although we do not discriminate, you will find that your presence is upsetting to some of our guests. Some will confront you directly asking "why are you on my Lesbian vacation?" I imagine it would be even harder for our guests to accept someone FTM.

I know this is discouraging, but it is important for you to understand because it disrupts the Olivia experience we work hard to provide for our guests. If you have any questions or need anything more please feel free to e-mail me at guestservices@olivia.com or call 800-631-6277, option 2.



Thank you,



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Jeri Umble
sr. director, customer care


olivia
434 brannan street
san francisco ca 94107

415.962.5700 tel
415.962-5713 fax

feel free
www.olivia.com

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by nycfem

Note that it is not noted that Olivia would protect trans lesbian women from being harassed in the way described below.

From:
"Olivia GuestServices" <GUESTSERVICES@OLIVIA.COM>
Add sender to Contacts

Hello -

Olivia strives to provide an all Lesbian environment but we have had MTF transgendered guests join us on our vacations. Although we do not discriminate, you will find that your presence is upsetting to some of our guests. Some will confront you directly asking "why are you on my Lesbian vacation?" I imagine it would be even harder for our guests to accept someone FTM.

I know this is discouraging, but it is important for you to understand because it disrupts the Olivia experience we work hard to provide for our guests. If you have any questions or need anything more please feel free to e-mail me at guestservices@olivia.com or call 800-631-6277, option 2.



Thank you,



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Jeri Umble
sr. director, customer care


olivia
434 brannan street
san francisco ca 94107

415.962.5700 tel
415.962-5713 fax

feel free
www.olivia.com

Yes this is the backlash I mentioned Olivia had to deal with. It is restating the intent of the cruises and the targeted audience. And, that the guests expecting a certain experience might not appreciate the intent being turned into other than what they are expecting.

It is not an anti trans policy.

Is your intent to say wbw and wbw who are lesbians do not have the right to their own space, to define their own space, to set boundaries? Are you saying wbw/lesbians are unable or lack the capability to know what they need/want? Are you saying it is the right of others to impose their will/needs on women or to define what women should want/need?

[Femmadian]

Sooooo... I may end up regretting this but... here. Can we have a separate space about, er, separate space?

We can have our cake and critique it, too, yes?