It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[DeanRobert]

In response:

Apretty: You stated that illegal immigrants contribute over a billion dollars a year to the states economy. I could not find that statistic anywhere today but I did find that illegal immigration costs the state over a billion dollars a year in our criminal justice system alone. From the time they are arrested to the day they are deported it is handled in the following way. Once arrested an immigration hold is placed, meaning that no bail or bond can be posted, they are kept in our county jail. If they are found guilty and sentenced with jail time, they must serve that time in county, state, or federal prison. Once their time is served they are then released and re-arrested by immigration officers and the deportation process is then started. This process can take up to 2 years and in some cases longer to complete.
All of their expenses are paid for by our tax dollars. The expenses are housing in the jails, food medical, dental, eye, mental health care, clothing and 97% of the time their attorney fees. 2% don’t fight deportation and 1% pay for their attorney.

SB1070 is not entirely a new bill it amends portions of already existing statutes on the books that have been there for years now. They are simply adding to these statutes. I found a web site today that will help those of you that wish to understand this bill in its entirety with what is being added and what is already a state statute. If you will click on the below web link you will see the entire bill. What is printed in back is already state statute, what is highlighted in green is the statute that is be amended; the blue is the actual SB1070 bill.
What can be contested in the courts is written in blue, the rest of the bill that is in black can not be contested. Those statutes are already law and have been contested and found to be constitutional.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

So, I ask you the following question:
Where were your voices and protests when the original statutes were drafted and signed into law?

A new poll that was taken over the past few days sense the signing of this bill into law, has 70% of the people in the state for this bill and 60% polled nation wide are for or agree with this bill.

If you go back and look at the voting history of this state you will find that it is and always has been a republican state. When it comes to voting the republicans will vote, when it comes to a controversial bill the republicans COME OUT and vote in large numbers.
Our mayor of Phoenix, Phil Gordon today announced that he will file a suit in the courts that will be financed and paid for by private donations and if need be out of his own pockets. Many are already stating that if he does this, his political career here in this state will be over.

And yes I am being one sided on my posts simply because both sides of this issue needs to be put out there and not just the alarmists side. {And I use the word alarmists with a heavy heart.}

As I said before Arizona needs some kind of reform, Right now I am neither for this bill nor am I against this bill; I am standing on the line and waiting for something to make me take a stand to one side or the other.
I have friends that have been stopped by the police, and swear to racial profiling and have done so for many years now. I used to travel the I-10 south to Tucson and then back to Phoenix and did so for about 2 years on a monthly basis. I drive a F250 work van that has two seats and is sectioned off with a metal divider, the windows on the back and side doors have metal security mesh on them. I would have to say that more times than not I was pulled over by either a immigrations and border patrol officer or a state police officer and asked if they could search the back of my van and would I open the doors for them. They always stopped me for illegal positioning of a license plate. {It’s in my back window and not on the bumper.} After the first time I was stopped, I knew each time there after what was happening. Was I profiled? Yes I was. Did I mind? No I didn’t because I had nothing to hide. Did I ever receive a citation for my license plate? No I didn’t. hummmmm go figure!!

P.S. BIT: You are so right about sheriff Joe, he may just be our next governor. Boy, did you hit the nail right on the head there.

[apretty]

DeanRobert:

1. i'm guessing you get to stand comfy in the middle, lacking an opinion on this bill because you're nice and white. i'm right, right?

2. if you'd read this thread in it's entirety you'd notice links to facts and statistics that detail where immigrants contribute to society. you asking me to do the work for you suggests that you're either lazy or don't care to know what your opposition says with regards to immigration. (plus, the thread isn't even 10 pages.)

3. any statements you make with regards to immigrants costing the 'criminal justice system' a dime would be solved by, wait for it, DECRIMINALIZING the color of brown skin. there ya go, billions saved.

4. i do understand this bill in it's entirety, i have read this bill.

5. see page 1 with regards to your 70% statistics.

6. your presenting one side (while ignoring the issue of RACIAL profiling) because that's the choice you're choosing to make.

7. it would have been nice if there were more 'alarmists' in nazi germany, before they started shipping off jews to 'work camps'

8. being profiled because you drive a shitty car is NOT THE SAME/can't even compare with being profiled because of your RACE. did i just have to spell that out?

9. curious as to your TWO posts on this site, both in this thread, and your recent join-date.

10. i'm sensing that we've met before but it obviously wasn't a venue where we discussed immigration, you would have remembered that learning opportunity and introduced yourself.

Originally Posted by DeanRobert

In response:

Apretty: You stated that ...

[friskyfemme]

DeanRobert,

Thank you for providing the link for the SB1070. You are correct about the process for handling persons arrested for being undocumented and awaiting deportation. I don't know about the cost dollars. But I do know the costs of individuals awaiting deportation are paid by federal funds. These persons are generally housed in county jails and the revenue received by the county for these person is 2-3times the amount allotted for maintaining the average inmate. They are put in general population. This makes it profittable for the jails and the counties to house a 'federal prisoner'. Is this a coincidental to increase raids and arrests of illegal immigrants while budget cuts hit law enforcement? There is a high risk for the Detention Officers because no one knows how violent the inmate is or what affliations that these individuals have in jail with them. There is a risk for those here seeking a safe, quiet life thow in with those who are violent criminals. The jails are full of 'people of interest'. There is alot more layers to the recent bill.

Just saying...

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by friskyfemme

DeanRobert,

Thank you for providing the link for the SB1070. You are correct about the process for handling persons arrested for being undocumented and awaiting deportation. I don't know about the cost dollars. But I do know the costs of individuals awaiting deportation are paid by federal funds. These persons are generally housed in county jails and the revenue received by the county for these person is 2-3times the amount allotted for maintaining the average inmate. They are put in general population. This makes it profittable for the jails and the counties to house a 'federal prisoner'. Is this a coincidental to increase raids and arrests of illegal immigrants while budget cuts hit law enforcement? There is a high risk for the Detention Officers because no one knows how violent the inmate is or what affliations that these individuals have in jail with them. There is a risk for those here seeking a safe, quiet life thow in with those who are violent criminals. The jails are full of 'people of interest'. There is alot more layers to the recent bill.

Just saying...

Just to clarify, cuz I read your post several times and have had trouble getting what your driving at.

It sounds like you're saying that part of this bill is a conspiracy on the part of the local law enforcement + government to get more money for their jails out of the federal government - because the federal government gives money to the little jails that our housing undocumented people and gives them MORE money than what they would to house someone who is in jail for another reason.

Am I correct?

[friskyfemme]

No. I am not saying this bill is a conspiracy. The arrangement of using non federal institutions to house 'undocumented persons' has been in play in AZ since at least 2000 when I worked for the Sheriff's department in a northern county. It does offset the costs for jails. What I am saying is that the benefit of these revenues obviously can help the budget on an escalated level.
Therefore, SB1070 could have favor by some radical politicians responsible for increasing the state funds. The federal funds, of course, come from the national taxpayers. I don't know if other states have this arrangement for housing undocumented persons. I am pretty sure they do.

[MsDemeanor]

I've been listening to a number of conservative officials and pundits discuss the need for this legislation, and they all focus on the drug smuggling being done on the ranches along the border and always mention the rancher who was killed.

I don't categorize people moving back and forth across the border with drugs and guns as undocumented individuals; they're gun runners and drug smugglers. It seems to me that this law is aimed squarely not at the smugglers but rather at the people who have crossed the border to stay in this country for weeks/months/years and are by and large seeking out work that pays better than what they can find in Mexico or Central America.

So tell me, please, because no one on TV will ask this question. How will demanding papers from people in non-border regions of AZ reduce the problem of drugs and guns being smuggled back and forth over the border?

[Jess]

Unfortunately, immigration reform and ALL of its implications is just another toy in the hands of politicians who are using it to better position their party for elections. The extreme right wing will play upon the fears of their pool of voters, and the Dems facing Nov elections will espouse how "something needs to be done and how they will make a difference", surely they mean right AFTER voted in.

I think we will see more folks like Crist leave their party because neither party reflects the values of that party anymore. I think we will start seeing more Independents ( YAY ) fighting for the real issues and dismissing the super-parties.

Unfortunately, what we will not see is the President keep his promise to Hispanic voters (who helped vote him into office), to work on reform laws in his first 90 days.

"Obama takes immigration reform off agenda" link to associated press article:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT



It seems to me that we ( collectively) paint a picture of our "oppressor" as Republicans ( whom we see as a bunch of bigoted old white privileged rich folks. We paint an image of Democrats as liberal hosts of freedom and equality who given the opportunity to affect positive change will leap at that chance. Neither of these images are true.

http://somosrepublicans.com/2010/04/...tion-inaction/

It gets increasingly difficult to see our country divided along the lines of race, when I think it is being divided at the hands of people in power playing the "common man" against one another. Both parties will do whatever necessary to hold steadfast to their party position. Or at least, the appearance of it.


Yes. This bill is THE single most actively racist piece of legislature I have seen in my lifetime. Yes, it is unconstitutional without a doubt. I said earlier in this thread that without action taken on the Federal level, we would see more states taking similar action and it looks like some now are.

We as a nation are being played like pawns at the hands of both parties and tear one another apart in our polarizing on this subject and many other currently being played out in the press.


Until our politicians find " US" more important than their party, we will continue to be mis-represented. Until we stop voting for them, we will continue to allow it.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

I've been listening to a number of conservative officials and pundits discuss the need for this legislation, and they all focus on the drug smuggling being done on the ranches along the border and always mention the rancher who was killed.

I don't categorize people moving back and forth across the border with drugs and guns as undocumented individuals; they're gun runners and drug smugglers. It seems to me that this law is aimed squarely not at the smugglers but rather at the people who have crossed the border to stay in this country for weeks/months/years and are by and large seeking out work that pays better than what they can find in Mexico or Central America.

So tell me, please, because no one on TV will ask this question. How will demanding papers from people in non-border regions of AZ reduce the problem of drugs and guns being smuggled back and forth over the border?

I cannot tell you how it will reduce the problem of guns and drugs being smuggled back and forth. I CAN assure you that the price of a good set of forged papers just went up exponentially though.

[theoddz]

This article on msnbc.com today presents an alternate view of the situation in Arizona. It's worth a read, I think.

What really grabbed my eye was the last sentence in the article, which reads, "Gonzales favors an approach backed by many other law-enforcement and immigration specialists: the federal government, he says, must step in to make the border more secure and to amend the system so more Mexicans can enter the country legally—without the "help" of criminal cartels."

I think that may be a better solution, rather than what, to me, seems to be what this new law in AZ does....violate our national Constitution.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/237196

~Theo~

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by friskyfemme

No. I am not saying this bill is a conspiracy. The arrangement of using non federal institutions to house 'undocumented persons' has been in play in AZ since at least 2000 when I worked for the Sheriff's department in a northern county. It does offset the costs for jails. What I am saying is that the benefit of these revenues obviously can help the budget on an escalated level.
Therefore, SB1070 could have favor by some radical politicians responsible for increasing the state funds. The federal funds, of course, come from the national taxpayers. I don't know if other states have this arrangement for housing undocumented persons. I am pretty sure they do.

Pima County (tucson and the largest border with mexico) Sheriff Dupnik says he doesn't put undocumented folks in his jail. He calls ICE to come get them. I believe I said before that he detains and turns over to ICE more undocumented folks than anyone else in the US......and that is under current law (without this new racist law). Under this new law he will HAVE to put them in his jail.

Yes he (and the other jurisdictions) will get some money back from the Feds. That money will be used to pay the cost of putting that undocumented person in his jail. However, that is not a revenue generating stream of money. It is money already allocated and won't help AZ's state budget one bit. It won't go to the general food for use on roads, schools, libraries, fire police, etc.

The real question is: Will the federal money actually pay for 100% of AZ dollars spent on stopping, arresting, investigating, feeding, clothes, medical, transportation to and from courts, court costs, and other misc costs incurred by enforcement of the new state law?

The thing that still baffles me is Republicans are supposed to want LESS government, yet they keep creating more government on the state level with less tax revenue to pay for the more government they are creating.

---------
By the way they amended the new law. Something about making it more clear this is not profiling. Cops have to have another reason to pull you over than being brown while driving. They also included something about local/town/city ordinances. You know those pesky little racist laws that towns pass......no parking cars in your yard, no litter or debris in your yard or on your porch, no drinking alcohol in your front yard.....well local cops can say 'paper please' if they decide to knock on your door to enforce those laws. (And we all know mexicans are the ones who do those above things...snort).

That governor woman thinks the changes are good and will make the law more defensible when challenged in state and fed courts.

[Toughy]

you know I got to thinking about this more.........

I wonder if the feds will pay a dime for someone jailed under a state law? At what point does that person cease to be a state prisoner and becomes a fed prisoner temporarily housed in a city/county jail.?

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Toughy

The thing that still baffles me is Republicans are supposed to want LESS government, yet they keep creating more government on the state level with less tax revenue to pay for the more government they are creating.

yes yes yes!

this invites government right into our lives! so, i have to wonder if it was government that the republicans were 'fearing' all along--or POCs..? --doesn't sound like government is *so bad* if it's WHITE.

boo.

[DeanRobert]

You know I find one thing just totally unbelievable that is the way people just attack one another solely based on the color of their skin. When I look at someone of color I do not see hatred, I see a person.

To answer your questions Apretty:{ not that I have too.}

1. I do have opinions about this bill. I choose not to voice them here. I will choose a side when I see or hear something that brings all of this together for me. As to the color of my skin does that rally matter to you? Your skin color does not matter to me. This comment is totally racist to me, unbelievable.
2. No where in my post did I ask you to do any research for me. I am very capable of doing this on my own.
3. You use the wording “brown skin” maybe your so upset about this simply because the highest populace of illegal immigrants in the united states is of Hispanic decent and crossed of the border in one of the 4 border states. No other comment is required here.
4. I never once said that you had not read this bill nor did you not understand it.
5. Been there done that.
6. If you had read my post I do believe this bill will lead to racial profiling there are bad apples in all the police departments.
7. agreed too
8. First off, the shitty car that you refer too in my company vehicle. And yes I was profiled during that time maybe not for the color of my skin but by driving a vehicle that is often used in smuggling illegal’s.{ look at the shuttle companies that were just busted here. They used the same type of vehicle.}
9. I just found this site so hence the join date. Which I mind you that date is before this subject ever became an issue. As to the two posts here. This is a thread that I felt I wanted to post in. Knowing that what I was posting I would be attacked; just as you are doing to me now. Jezzz thought I was welcome to post in any of the threads. You have the right to your opinion just as I do to mine. So at this point lets agree to disagree. I will not allow you to bait me into a fight of words and anger.
10. ROFL, yes we have met and yes we did discuss many of your political views that night. In fact you were in a very heated discussion with my partner that night.


You didn’t answer my question in my post. So I will ask it again.

Where was the “brown skinned peoples” voice when the original statutes were being written and signed into law?

[DeanRobert]

The people in Arizona that are awaiting deportation trials are housed in a privately run prison in Florance. Yes the state receives federal funds, and whrere to the federal funds come from, us the taxpayer.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by DeanRobert

The people in Arizona that are awaiting deportation trials are housed in a privately run prison in Florance. Yes the state receives federal funds, and whrere to the federal funds come from, us the taxpayer.

Ah so it's big business to hold brown skinned folks in Private PRISON, for the crime of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Lovely. Does this not smack of Naziism at all to you?
"Those who forget the past are bound to repeat it." G.S.

[PapaC]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Ah so it's big business to hold brown skinned folks in Private PRISON, for the crime of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Lovely. Does this not smack of Naziism at all to you?
"Those who forget the past are bound to repeat it." G.S.

TY Corkey, I posted that quote on Facebook just yesterday.

It's a good one.

[Diva]

Two years ago, I was pulled over for speeding. (After 25+ years of not having gotten a ticket, it was upsetting, to say the least.)

But the thing more upsetting than that? I had my BF in the car with me ~ a Latino transguy ~ who froze. Was He legal? Yeah. But His fear ~ putting His hands on His thighs (in plain sight of the officer so ~ I found out later ~ it wouldn't be assumed He had a weapon in His possession...........WTF?!?!) and kept His eyes straight ahead so as not to make contact with the officer. He didn't want any kind of confrontation as to why a Latino guy was in the car with a white woman. (Call me naive, but it never occurred to ME that there could BE a problem with something like that!)

Just writing this, I have a knot in my stomach remembering His reaction to MY getting stopped.......and I'm as white as they come (Scot/Irish), but it brought to me a new appreciation (and awareness) for what my Latino brothers and sisters feel about this AZ situation.

And the whole thing smacks of "Good ol' Republican white boy" mentality. It makes me sick.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by DeanRobert

Where was the “brown skinned peoples” voice when the original statutes were being written and signed into law?

i'll respond to all your post tomorrow, but i am incredulous about this thought process, 'where was the brown skin peoples' voice...'

so what? you keep down a people long enough and they should just get used to it, move aside, what? i can't understand how what *was* then oppression, makes what is oppression NOW, okay? would you walk me through that, please?

thanks.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by DeanRobert

You know I find one thing just totally unbelievable that is the way people just attack one another solely based on the color of their skin. When I look at someone of color I do not see hatred, I see a person.

To answer your questions Apretty:{ not that I have too.}

1. I do have opinions about this bill. I choose not to voice them here. I will choose a side when I see or hear something that brings all of this together for me. As to the color of my skin does that rally matter to you? Your skin color does not matter to me. This comment is totally racist to me, unbelievable.
2. No where in my post did I ask you to do any research for me. I am very capable of doing this on my own.
3. You use the wording “brown skin” maybe your so upset about this simply because the highest populace of illegal immigrants in the united states is of Hispanic decent and crossed of the border in one of the 4 border states. No other comment is required here.
4. I never once said that you had not read this bill nor did you not understand it.
5. Been there done that.
6. If you had read my post I do believe this bill will lead to racial profiling there are bad apples in all the police departments.
7. agreed too
8. First off, the shitty car that you refer too in my company vehicle. And yes I was profiled during that time maybe not for the color of my skin but by driving a vehicle that is often used in smuggling illegal’s.{ look at the shuttle companies that were just busted here. They used the same type of vehicle.}
9. I just found this site so hence the join date. Which I mind you that date is before this subject ever became an issue. As to the two posts here. This is a thread that I felt I wanted to post in. Knowing that what I was posting I would be attacked; just as you are doing to me now. Jezzz thought I was welcome to post in any of the threads. You have the right to your opinion just as I do to mine. So at this point lets agree to disagree. I will not allow you to bait me into a fight of words and anger.
10. ROFL, yes we have met and yes we did discuss many of your political views that night. In fact you were in a very heated discussion with my partner that night.


You didn’t answer my question in my post. So I will ask it again.

Where was the “brown skinned peoples” voice when the original statutes were being written and signed into law?

DeanRobert, you have asked this question twice, and although you haven't asked me directly, I will address it, as I find it mind blogging.

You asking this question is the equivalent of anyone asking: Where was the “gay people's” voice when the original statutes were being written and signed into law, regarding DOMA/Same Sex Marriage, etc?

Now I can change that question with many other minorities if you wish. At this time I am going to just leave it to see if sinks in.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Dean Robert.

I want to share something with you, it's personal, and a lil painful but maybe it will help you understand that just because they say they do things legally (and when I mean they, I meant border patrol or any cops) it can also lead to...

ready for this

LIES...

My mother till last year was not a US Citizen, she was legally residing here, but her original country of origin is Mexico.. She crossed them illegal perimeters many many a time during my youth...

Once, during them crossings, they got her, some border patrol guys, her and a couple friends.. They did not *detain* them at some building, no, no, no
they gave my mom and her friends special accomidations in the middle of some desert in Arizona..

*I* am a fucking 40 year walking reminder of that time for my mom. (mom is catholic does not do abortion)

So. with that tid bit out there....

I want to share something with you...

If you put down a people long enough can call them roaches, garbage, a burden to this country you will learn to just be quiet and avoid anything that has to do with any kind of law enforcement. (including voting) My mother is a strong ass woman, but lemme tell you nothing breaks her down like the sight of a cop, we talked a bit on her birthday about the AZ thing, I can hear it in her voice the terror.. I am so glad she does not live anywhere near that state..

When I was 15 my mother bumped a car with hers at church, in the parking lot, my dad was out of town on TDY, Arabia I believe don't remember why.

We hid, I shit you not my mother panicked, cause she thought the cops would take her we hid out at stores, and I finally talked her into going home. So you see it is easy to scare people, it's easy to make someone feel unwanted and unwelcomed, and it's easy to terrorize a people..

*I* personally, hate being pulled over, cops are right up there with clowns and spiders, they set off panic in me...

So your thoughts that people are being detained in pretty prison cells is not always true.....

What this woman has done, is put a target on people who are not *white*. So who are they gonna pull over?

Native Americans they have dark skin

Persians they too have dark skins

Chicanos they tooooooo have dark skin

when does it end? So what I see is unless you white.... You can safely drive around the state.. Hasn't it always been like this though?

It's a fucked up law Dean Robert....

How you don't see that is beyond me.......