Ebola, news and discussion

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Kelt

Okay, a couple of things, the nurse who got on the plane checked with the CDC first and was given a green light. Poor judgement on the part of the CDC, not the nurse who sought counsel. The healthcare worker who got on a cruise ship did so before self monitoring went into effect, had no patient contact, and started self monitoring voluntarily as soon as the guidelines were known.

It’s already been established that bugs get around in hospitals and new precautions are going into place as we speak that may be of future benefit in all infectious situations.

Yes, Ebola is a scary virus and I for one am glad I am in the US and not West Africa. I know that my voice as an individual is not likely to be heard but I can also see lots of action on the part of congress who for better or worse are our elected representatives.

I am also glad that the CDC is scrambling to keep up, it would be nice if everything had been perfect upfront. The alternative would have them standing firm on ineffective policies. I say yay for flexibility and updating protocols on the fly to stay on top of changes as they arise.

I was only trying to show that in some places with resources it is possible to stop the spread after it has begun and that it is being done. Certainly not trying to minimize anything.

If the point of this thread/conversation is to encourage panic by highlighting media hype, then so be it, it’s your thread go for it.

The hard stuff in situations like this is remembering to take everything one hears and sees in the media with a grain of salt cuz mostly likely the information contains an element of truth without knowing the entire story.

As such, when info surfaces, it has to be backtracked to uncover the facts vs the conjecture vs the covering of ones ass vs damage control and such. Complicated stuff to sort out at any level.

This, understandably makes people antsy. It has the appearance of lying, cover ups, conspiracies, and what have you, while the folks who have the arduous task of separating fact from fiction do their jobs.

Even once the facts and fiction are sorted, it may or may not be deemed appropriate to divulge what facts were uncovered for a variety of reasons. This is frustrating.

I think it is important for people to be able to express their fears, questions, and concerns. It helps to relieve their anxiety. It is an opportunity to reassure, share info, and other stuff which may help folks to look at something in a different way. This is also the time folks who have had bad personal experiences with the health care system find the memories and feelings of what they faced resurfacing and mixing with the present situation. It is human nature to do so.

As info emerges, more than one thing has made me raise an eyebrow. Little by little, what seemed unexplainable became very explainable. It was deliberate ass covering along with shifting blame. This too is human nature.

This is a very complicated situation being further complicated by people who are being less than honest. We know the hospital lied. Reports are emerging that the nurse who flew to Ohio was not being honest. I dont know what the lab person on the cruise was thinking.

A lot of time, energy and resources which could be put to better use in dealing with Ebola per se, is being wasted having to mop up after less than honest caregivers with questionable judgement who are not adhering to what they have been told to do and not do. In the process, hundreds of people have potentially been exposed affecting different parts of the country. Businesses like airlines, cruise ships, bridal shops etc have been put at risk. That is just from the 3 we know about. One has to wonder what the rest of the crew has been up to.

The sad part is this undermines not only the credibility but the professionalism of these caregivers all along the line. Poor judgement and a lack of common sense are not good qualities in heath care providers.

[TruTexan]

Originally Posted by Kobi

The hard stuff in situations like this is remembering to take everything one hears and sees in the media with a grain of salt cuz mostly likely the information contains an element of truth without knowing the entire story.

As such, when info surfaces, it has to be backtracked to uncover the facts vs the conjecture vs the covering of ones ass vs damage control and such. Complicated stuff to sort out at any level.

This, understandably makes people antsy. It has the appearance of lying, cover ups, conspiracies, and what have you, while the folks who have the arduous task of separating fact from fiction do their jobs.

Even once the facts and fiction are sorted, it may or may not be deemed appropriate to divulge what facts were uncovered for a variety of reasons. This is frustrating.

I think it is important for people to be able to express their fears, questions, and concerns. It helps to relieve their anxiety. It is an opportunity to reassure, share info, and other stuff which may help folks to look at something in a different way. This is also the time folks who have had bad personal experiences with the health care system find the memories and feelings of what they faced resurfacing and mixing with the present situation. It is human nature to do so.

As info emerges, more than one thing has made me raise an eyebrow. Little by little, what seemed unexplainable became very explainable. It was deliberate ass covering along with shifting blame. This too is human nature.

This is a very complicated situation being further complicated by people who are being less than honest. We know the hospital lied. Reports are emerging that the nurse who flew to Ohio was not being honest. I dont know what the lab person on the cruise was thinking.

A lot of time, energy and resources which could be put to better use in dealing with Ebola per se, is being wasted having to mop up after less than honest caregivers with questionable judgement who are not adhering to what they have been told to do and not do. In the process, hundreds of people have potentially been exposed affecting different parts of the country. Businesses like airlines, cruise ships, bridal shops etc have been put at risk. That is just from the 3 we know about. One has to wonder what the rest of the crew has been up to.

The sad part is this undermines not only the credibility but the professionalism of these caregivers all along the line. Poor judgement and a lack of common sense are not good qualities in heath care providers.

Thank you for this Kobi, very very well said. I heartily agree.

[Medusa]

I'd submit that another possibility with these caregivers had much less to do with being less than honest or having questionable judgment and more to do with being overworked, understaffed, and possibly undertrained.

I know a lot of damned fine caregivers who would not risk their families, much less their own health, over even the slightest hint of possibility of contracting what could be one of the least curable viruses we've seen in a long time (speaking strictly as a lay person on the potentiality of the deadliness here, if someone is an epidemiologist, please do correct me).

I believe they are doing the best they can with what they have.

As for the hospital executives, I don't consider them caregivers (especially if they've never donned scrubs or touched a bedpan full of someone else's diarrhea). They don't have the same incentive to follow the CDC guidelines as the hands-on caregivers do. Their lives are not at stake on the same level.

I just read an article about the crew of an American Airlines flight out of Dallas locked a woman who threw up in the aisle in the bathroom for the last half of her flight.

Guess what color she was?

[Kelt]

All good points and examples.

So as a result of the decisions of a few individuals we now have a whole lot of people who will be "self-monitoring" for the foreseeable future. Because that's worked out so well so far.

Now we have the court of public opinion taking action. Also going well.

*yes, I'm being sarcastic, but it's pretty much true*

The next logical question might be; who has the authority to enforce a quarantine on US citizens? It turns out the answer might be 'nobody'. I heard that come up briefly and quietly go down to 'probably state and local officials'.

I took a quick peek, nothing in depth, and it looks like it might just be states or their health departments varying by state. (needs verification) Nothing could go wrong with that comprehensive plan.

I really hope some governing body has this front and center on their radar, it could go downhill quickly. Maybe it will get handed off to Ron Klain.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Kelt

All good points and examples.

So as a result of the decisions of a few individuals we now have a whole lot of people who will be "self-monitoring" for the foreseeable future. Because that's worked out so well so far.

Now we have the court of public opinion taking action. Also going well.

*yes, I'm being sarcastic, but it's pretty much true*

The next logical question might be; who has the authority to enforce a quarantine on US citizens? It turns out the answer might be 'nobody'. I heard that come up briefly and quietly go down to 'probably state and local officials'.

I took a quick peek, nothing in depth, and it looks like it might just be states or their health departments varying by state. (needs verification) Nothing could go wrong with that comprehensive plan.

I really hope some governing body has this front and center on their radar, it could go downhill quickly. Maybe it will get handed off to Ron Klain.

I thought I read somewhere that the state public health centers/state governments now have the power to ask people to not leave their homes and self monitor...or something like that.

I don't know much about Ron Klain (or the specifics of his role besides guiding the management of handling this crisis), however, it seems as though they are making the assumption that Klain will not look to the medical professionals to guide his decisions. Everyone is upset that there is not a medical person in place to navigate all of this, but a medical person does not automatically a good "manager" make. I would rather have a guy in charge who has experience in systems management who will seek expert guidance for his decisions, than a person who is an expert, but has no idea how to execute the task (systems management), at hand. Think of the learning curve on that one? Most people aren't good at both.

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

I thought I read somewhere that the state public health centers/state governments now have the power to ask people to not leave their homes and self monitor...or something like that.

I don't know much about Ron Klain (or the specifics of his role besides guiding the management of handling this crisis), however, it seems as though they are making the assumption that Klain will not look to the medical professionals to guide his decisions. Everyone is upset that there is not a medical person in place to navigate all of this, but a medical person does not automatically a good "manager" make. I would rather have a guy in charge who has experience in systems management who will seek expert guidance for his decisions, than a person who is an expert, but has no idea how to execute the task (systems management), at hand. Think of the learning curve on that one? Most people aren't good at both.

I agree, that was mostly tongue in cheek. He actually sounds pretty well qualified for a constantly evolving national situation and I'm sure medical counsel will be brought in to co-advise or whatever they will call it. I'm just waiting for the clown cars and rest of the circus to pull into town.

As we've already seen, having a government agency ask someone to self monitor may work but if there are no teeth to it, it is optional. It is hard to imagine anyone not complying, but again, most of my concerns are of the hype driven panic/hysteria actions that are surely to show up at some point.

I should be clear, I'm not in favor of executive orders being put into place that strip us of our civil rights. I just don't know how the outliers in this situation will be handled. I seems like anytime local agencies are tasked with managing something that crosses state lines, things go awry.

[*Anya*]

Frequently asked questions about Ebola, answered by CDC, dated 10/17/2014:

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/20...-questions.pdf

[The_Lady_Snow]

The epidemic we should all be worried about that is spreading like wild fire is the XENOPHOBIA and FEAR that this is causing in our spaces... I cringe when I hear or read things like

"foreigners"

"woman locked in plane lavatory"

"Those Africans"

"Those People"

"Keep them out"

"Africans should be banned from entry"

"Close our Borders"

It's troubling, sad and not helpful to what is really going on with the Ebola contamination....