It's Time to Boycott Arizona

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Jess

What's really interesting to me, is that in the movies... any foreign country official always asks "ve vant to see your PaPers". Is it just here that we aren't supposed to ask?
Perhaps because so many European countries "touch" each other, they are more interested in seeing who is crossing their borders. Perhaps, because we are so, oh, I dunno, separate, we are just supposed to allow anyone in at any time.

If the bottom line is, have your papers in hand when they ask for them then go on your merry way, then what is really the problem?

Now.. I will say I am playing Devils Advocate with this, as it seems to be a simple solution and good as hell reason to sue for racial profiling. IF you have proper documentation and get pulled over because "you are brown".. SUE THE FUCK OUT OF THEM. If by chance, you don't, then damn, maybe you should have paid attention to all this shit. IF you are here and are going through the process, then you will have some proof of that. IF you are here ILLEGALLY and don't have proof you are going through the process, then hmmm.. go home and start over.It's really that simple.

Fully expecting bullshit to fall out of this post. Because it is way too simple. Way too easy to see it for what it is. I say, beat them at their game. It's easy. Have your papers ready to shove ever so politely in their face, whichever state of citizenship you fall into.

I see your reasoning. I'll try to keep things simple also. Those who are in this country are still paying taxes, etc. So, really, it's no skin off my teeth if they are here legally or not.

However, if someone has come here illegally and is trying to save money to send back home so that the rest of the family can come over here, legally, then it's not just a simple case of 'send 'em back'. Very often, they've nearly died getting here to take advantage of what so many take for granted. I could not, with my twisted sense of morality, do that to someone. Humans have a right to live and, if one illegal person is sent back, it affects not only them but their whole family...not to mention they'll probably get their ass kicked in the process of being 'sent back' (like defective merchandise, no?) or even killed. I'm not down with that.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I see your reasoning. I'll try to keep things simple also. Those who are in this country are still paying taxes, etc. So, really, it's no skin off my teeth if they are here legally or not.

However, if someone has come here illegally and is trying to save money to send back home so that the rest of the family can come over here, legally, then it's not just a simple case of 'send 'em back'. Very often, they've nearly died getting here to take advantage of what so many take for granted. I could not, with my twisted sense of morality, do that to someone. Humans have a right to live and, if one illegal person is sent back, it affects not only them but their whole family...not to mention they'll probably get their ass kicked in the process of being 'sent back' (like defective merchandise, no?) or even killed. I'm not down with that.

I see your point. I will also add that not every single illegal immigrant is here to send money back to their poor family. My entire argument is for those who aren't.

Anyone who approaches the US Embassy with a valid case to be a refugee is granted immunity. It's just what we do.

I think we ( in general) wish to think the best of anyone coming here for a "new beginning/ second chance". It is not always the case. Read: 9/11

Some of those guys somehow got valid pilots licenses. How does that shit happen? How do we document folks we slide through?

Not being in a border state struggling with such intimate issues, it is hard for me to be very compassionate. I try, but I also try to be compassionate for the folks who died at the hands of terrorists who were able to take charge of our planes. Ya know? It's a very precarious place to be in judging which is more humane. Asking for papers.. or assuming the good.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Jess

I see your point. I will also add that not every single illegal immigrant is here to send money back to their poor family. My entire argument is for those who aren't.

Anyone who approaches the US Embassy with a valid case to be a refugee is granted immunity. It's just what we do.

I'm not sure this is true or, at least, that what the Embassy deems as being 'valid' is the same as what you or I or an immigrant might see it. I just don't think it's that easy.

I think we ( in general) wish to think the best of anyone coming here for a "new beginning/ second chance". It is not always the case. Read: 9/11

Some of those guys somehow got valid pilots licenses. How does that shit happen? How do we document folks we slide through?

Not being in a border state struggling with such intimate issues, it is hard for me to be very compassionate. I try, but I also try to be compassionate for the folks who died at the hands of terrorists who were able to take charge of our planes. Ya know? It's a very precarious place to be in judging which is more humane. Asking for papers.. or assuming the good.

I understand your point. No one wants another 9/11. I'm not saying that no one should try to document folks. I disagree with the legalization of racial profiling, which is what this mess boils down to.

[Gemme]

Jess, I think what UofMfan is saying is that the showing of papers at customs is fine and expected, but just driving down the road? When at the grocery store or pumping gas? Not so much. This would focus attention on all people that 'look' like they 'might' be illegal with no regard to location.

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Jess

I see your point. I will also add that not every single illegal immigrant is here to send money back to their poor family. My entire argument is for those who aren't.

Anyone who approaches the US Embassy with a valid case to be a refugee is granted immunity. It's just what we do.

I think we ( in general) wish to think the best of anyone coming here for a "new beginning/ second chance". It is not always the case. Read: 9/11

Some of those guys somehow got valid pilots licenses. How does that shit happen? How do we document folks we slide through?

Not being in a border state struggling with such intimate issues, it is hard for me to be very compassionate. I try, but I also try to be compassionate for the folks who died at the hands of terrorists who were able to take charge of our planes. Ya know? It's a very precarious place to be in judging which is more humane. Asking for papers.. or assuming the good.

Anyone who approaches the US Embassy with a valid case to be a refugee is granted immunity. It's just what we do.

No, this is not what "we" do. If you like I can direct you to plenty of valid sources that would rebuttal that statement.

I think we ( in general) wish to think the best of anyone coming here for a "new beginning/ second chance". It is not always the case. Read: 9/11

Some of those guys somehow got valid pilots licenses. How does that shit happen? How do we document folks we slide through?

Those "guys" got in to the US legally. Imagine that! And they got into the US legally even after the 1996 law which was a freaking joke!

They got pilot licenses because they passed the requirements to be pilots, they were not required to see if they were terrorists. That was the job of the CIA and FBI, at which they failed miserably, but that is a whole other thread.

Anthony McVeigh, I am sure you have heard of him, he is a terrorist and an US born citizen, go figure!

Ya know? It's a very precarious place to be in judging which is more humane. Asking for papers.. or assuming the good.

Again, had those terrorist been asked papers they would have shown they were legal US residents, so what is your point?

To bring 911 into this conversation is ridiculous. It is what the Bush administration and Republicans tried to do for 8 years and look where that got us.

Facts, and statistics show that most, if not all undocumented immigrants come to the US just for the very fact Gemme mentioned.

Few immigrants, legal or undocumented are terrorists. I have facts to back that statement.

[MsDemeanor]

Originally Posted by Jess

Anyone who approaches the US Embassy with a valid case to be a refugee is granted immunity. It's just what we do.

I'm on my way out for the evening, but I just had to stop by and laugh my ass off over this comment.....