Being female within Butch

[Kobi]

If I am reading this correctly, I am going to be presenting a different side.

I am an atypical female. I like and embrace my femaleness. It never sneaks up on me nor do I have to be reminded of it. It is very much a part of who I am.

With the exemption of male running shoes (last longer) and Joe Boxer socks (which I love the feel of), I shop for female clothing in stores catering to women.

I dont freak out when I have to buy products related to having a female body or have tests/exams for females. It is what it is.

I found a bra I like so I am fond of buying them in assorted colors and patterns.

Im not big on scents and prefer any soaps, lotions, shampoos to give a fresh smell and a refreshing feeling - dial, ivory, suave products do just fine. I dont understand skin care products but do peruse the Estee Lauder site when I am ordering stuff for my Mother.

I havent noticed any difference in how I feel about me around femmes. I tend to prefer those who are partial to a female partner who appreciates her own femaleness.

Occasionally, I run into something I dont quite expect. This week my gf bought a Kate Spade handbag and informed me my outfit had to fit the bag. Im not sure what this means but I am presuming it means my sweats and tees will not mingle with said bag in public. In private, I am gathering said bag will have its own shrine in the closet.

Ascot are you asking if certain products made for different sexes enhance butchness or compliment butchness, or detract from butchness?

[Ascot]

I found myself nodding whilst reading your post, Bulldog. I definitely relate to and agree with your comments about how it feels to be around other butches, going to the barbershop, etc. I think I actually chuckled aloud at "butch spa day". That's the beauty of being Butch, isn't it, that there is such a panoply of permutations on the theme.

Kobi, you say that you think yourself atypical (or did you mean to type "a typical"?) because you like and embrace your femaleness. At least that's how I read what you wrote. I think your are, in fact, in the majority. I neither dislike nor disavow mine. I wasn't asking about certain products enhancing, complimenting or detracting from anything. More, I was speaking to what one experiences when faced with choices that remind, reinforce, reiterate etc., particularly if one isn't as inclined to think about their femaleness all the time because for whatever reason it isn't in the forefront of their mind. I too am partial to women who want a female partner; it's pretty much my own definition of lesbianism. Good luck with the Kate Spade bag, lol.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Ascot

Kobi, you say that you think yourself atypical (or did you mean to type "a typical"?) because you like and embrace your femaleness. At least that's how I read what you wrote. I think your are, in fact, in the majority. I neither dislike nor disavow mine. I wasn't asking about certain products enhancing, complimenting or detracting from anything. More, I was speaking to what one experiences when faced with choices that remind, reinforce, reiterate etc., particularly if one isn't as inclined to think about their femaleness all the time because for whatever reason it isn't in the forefront of their mind. I too am partial to women who want a female partner; it's pretty much my own definition of lesbianism. Good luck with the Kate Spade bag, lol.

I meant atypical female/woman as in not a typical female/woman but still a proud female/woman very much aware of my sex all the time.

Ironically, it was the butch-femme community that made me more conscious of my femaleness, how important it was to who I am, and how important it was to me to be seen as such.

On the one hand, because I am not a femme, it feels like I am seen as something other than a female/woman. Along with that, it feels like there are assumptions and presumptions made about my having issues with being female, issues with my female body, and issues with boundaries because of my femaleness.

On the other hand, butches welcome me as a "guy", one of the "boys", or a "bro". I understand it is a form of solidarity and acceptance. Yet, it feels like this ignores my femaleness or turns it into something else.

Different things work for different people. Being a female and a woman is who I am. Being seen by others as a female and a woman is like a wow moment for me.

[Virago]

Focusing on Ascot's original question: "I am curious to hear what others experience in regards to being reminded of one's femaleness while inhabiting butch skin. Is it no big deal? Does it suck for you? Is it just kind of weird or a little annoying? Does it make you want to leap with joy?"

I am in the same direction as Kobi. My femaleness never sneaks up on me. I am female. I did go through a period of time where I considered transitioning, and struggled with the decision for about 10 years (and ironically was my most feminine during that time...I guess as a balance to my inside thoughts).

I've seen our community go through many changes during the decades I've been with it. In the eighties in New York we were NOT allowed to be Butch or Femme, but all just to the left or right of androgenous--everything equal. I mean Everything. Then Butch and Femme started to emerge strong again. we set up our own codes of conduct and felt the pressure to act a certain way (butches wore short hair, femmes wore heels). During that time I was not in balance with myself...so during that time Yes, I would be surprised at my feminine self when I felt butch inside. But now, our community has gotten so much more accepting of difference, and that has helped many of us, myself especially, accept our own differences.

So now, I do on occasion dress in a dress (a rare occasion, but it can happen). I do wear mascara and eyeliner (what can I say? I like how I look with it. I'm a Maybelline Butch ) But I am definitely butch. I am not surprised by my femaleness nor is it annoying. It also does not make me leap for joy. It just is who I am. Me. Maybelline Butch with longish hair!

[Ascot]

An interesting bit of history, Virago. Thanks for that. For many, many years I had long hair and was known to sling on some eyeliner from time to time. I get it. I feel I should clarify that my being female is not something that I ever feel ambushed by. Not once in my life have I ever had a "Holy fuck, I'm a woman!" moment. Nor am I anything akin to repulsed by it. Years ago a gay boy friend of mine said something that rather broke my heart. "When I was younger I used to pride myself on being beautiful, much like a young woman. Now, I'm aging like an old man." The way he said it, it seemed as though he was somewhat surprised by that turn of events. That's not what it's like for me. (Although in my more cantankerous moments, I might actually seem like I'm aging like an old man, lol.) I wish I could come up with an analogy that would precisely speak to how it feels to me. I think I'll sleep on it.

[Mel C.]

Not sure how I've missed this thread but I'll have to read from the beginning when I have more time. For now, I'll say that I consider myself a woman-identified butch. My clothes and personal care products are mostly "men's." I hate buying anything feminine, but acknowledge that I am female. I am okay (and maybe even like a little) being referred to as he or hy within the butch-femme community, but it irks me when a straight person refers to me as sir. I especially hate the "sir, I mean ma'am." Aargh...being female within butch is complicated.

[Ascot]

Contextually, I very much enjoy being called Sir. And, anymore, I get a kick out of seeing someone discomfited by having called me sir and then realizing I'm a woman. But I'm a sadist, so…