"Butch" and "Femme" - Truly Antiquated Terms or More Marginalization?

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

I don't know what "feminizing touch" is either.

Are there forms of touch that magically confer masculinity or femininity on the recipient?
What would be a form of masculinizing touch or feminizing touch?
Inquiring minds want to know!

For someone that does not identify with their female anatomy, touching their chest as one would touch the breasts of a female-identified person is an example of feminizing touch.

Yes, some touches are magical...both good and bad...for the recipient.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by Gemme

*nods*

It is difficult to see past the clashing of terms, I admit. I do feel it's necessary to do so, so that there won't be friction between the members of our community.

It is oftentimes a slow, bumpy road though.

Agreed

and as far as feminizing touch goes, for me personally, touching my chest is feminizing. To me it is bad enough that I have them but it irks me to think of my partner touching me there.

[Dragonfly]

Notanaverageguy:

Just wanted to ask since you are here and answering... would a set of nails digging into your chest area during a passionate moment be the same to you as a partner touching them...?

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by Amelia

Notanaverageguy:

Just wanted to ask since you are here and answering... would a set of nails digging into your chest area during a passionate moment be the same to you as a partner touching them...?

yes, I don't like hands near that area at all, I prefer nails on the back

[Dragonfly]

NAAG: Thank you for explaining that. I know we are derailing the topic a bit. Some who ID the same as you do may feel differently to an extent.... but its still the same idea that I think a lot of people may sometimes get offended about. Like saying feminizing you is bad for you specifically because you are "better than" femme.... and not just as an issue of sexual likes related to how you are being you... and how you ID with your sexuality as well.

AND I wanted to add that like you NotAAG.... not many of the Bio born males I have been with got anything sexual out of my playing with their pepperonies. AND That does NOT mean they think females or femmes are not as cool as they are. Just didnt "do it" for them. I never thought they were masochistic or anti woman if they didnt really get off on a gal licking their taint either. I just went and found someone who liked what I like... and didnt get upset at them for being strait-forward. Like I hope no one gets with you...

AND I just had to say...I really tried not to....

THAT a few of them did like it. Some of them were not male IDed bio born males who had the typically male stereotyped sexual needs. They were kinky Heterosexual Id'ed bio born males... and they loved that I saw past what "bits" they were born with and let their kinkiness be OK.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by Amelia

NAAG: Thank you for explaining that. I know we are derailing the topic a bit. Some who ID the same as you do may feel differently to an extent.... but its still the same idea that I think a lot of people may sometimes get offended about. Like saying feminizing you is bad for you specifically because you are "better than" femme.... and not just as an issue of sexual likes related to how you are being you... and how you ID with your sexuality as well.

AND I wanted to add that like you NotAAG.... not many of the Bio born males I have been with got anything sexual out of my playing with their pepperonies. AND That does NOT mean they think females or femmes are not as cool as they are. Just didnt "do it" for them. I never thought they were masochistic or anti woman if they didnt really get off on a gal licking their taint either. I just went and found someone who liked what I like... and didnt get upset at them for being strait-forward. Like I hope no one gets with you...

AND I just had to say...I really tried not to....

THAT a few of them did like it. Some of them were not male IDed bio born males who had the typically male stereotyped sexual needs. They were kinky Heterosexual Id'ed bio born males... and they loved that I saw past what "bits" they were born with and let their kinkiness be OK.

No problem, like Gemme said it should be part of the discussion so we can all learn, I know not everyone feels the same way as I do, hence me using the words to me and for myself, etc in posts.


Thank you for being honest and forthright with your posts, it opens my eyes up on other aspects.

[Dragonfly]

I used the words kinky and heterosexual because that is how they ID themselves not a reflection on my own personal opinions of their said choices.

And I just love that talking goes on in threads that may have been negative at some point.

I love to see poeple make up. Its almost but not quite worth the pain of seeing the fight.


** If there was an actual fight by definition I didnt really think so just a term used broadly to say I love this thread.

[friskyfemme]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I have no answers for your other questions of frisky, but I actually know what she meant by this. She's a Stone Femme that partners with Stone Butches. Her partners have the 'no touch' (or no feminizing touching) sexual boundaries that she is fine with and respects. She does not have those same 'no touch' boundaries. She likes to be touched by her partners, especially in a feminizing way.

The rest I am actually interested in hearing the answers to.

ok enough. I will try to explain myself. My comment about not relating as a lesbian is simply as I stated. It has to do with my interpretation of the term. I partner with male id butches. I do not participate in fondling or mouthing the female parts of my partners. However, I do enjoy and invite it for myself. As I stated in my post 'this is what is I termed as 'female on female' sex which is what I have known as the distinction between stone and lesbian. I id as a femme. Which in itself has diferent meanings for different people. I have seen by response that others' have a different reference for all of the above mentioned. I am in no way attempting to define anyone else or making any derogatory comment about anyone else's id or sexual preferences. I was simply offering my own and explaining why. Which is what I thought was the spirit of this thread. If I offended anyone it is not my intent. The fact that I am offended by some of the comments here, I chose to believe were not intended as such.

[friskyfemme]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I'm so confused by this post....truly confused.

You are not a 'no touch' femme and you only date 'no touch' butches??? How does that work?

What is 'female on female sex'? What is 'lesbian sex'?

If lesbian is defined entirely by sex act(s), is that not just a way to reduce lesbians to only a sex act? I mean that's what the het world does to all us queers..........we are defined by sexual act(s) only..........even though every sexual proclivity you can think of is done (can be done) by most folks regardless of gender identity or biological sex.

I know I am far more than my sexual and erotic proclivities .....and those proclivities are very fluid and always dependent on the dynamic between me and the femme I am with.....

Thanks to Gemme for the segway... I will try to explain myself. My comment about not relating as a lesbian is simply as I stated. It has to do with my interpretation of the term. I partner with male id butches. I do not participate in fondling or mouthing the female parts of my partners. However, I do enjoy and invite it for myself. As I stated in my post this is what 'I' termed as 'female on female' sex which is what 'I' have known as the distinction between stone and lesbian. I id as a femme. Which in itself has different meanings for different people. I have deduced by responses that others' have a different reference for all of the above mentioned. I am in no way attempting to define anyone else or making any derogatory comment about anyone else's id or sexual preferences. I was simply offering my own and explaining why. Which is what I thought was the spirit of this thread. If I offended anyone it is not my intent. The fact that I am offended by some of the comments here, I chose to believe were not intended as such.

[Dragonfly]

Aww Friskyfemme sorry to hear you feel like that... ok enough. Even the worst said thought is still helping everyone else. Lots read that dont post.

I missed what parts you thought were offensive lately... unless you meant earlier in the thread and or from the time area where you were quoting? Could you clarify when you were offended ... that is if you were newly offended or didnt post specifically what was offensive.... will you please post that for me?

It is very important to me to keep my head around what is offensive and why and to whom. I want to learn, grow and not make ANYone feel unwelcome here.... so you could help me do that in hypothetical future by giving me a heads up on it. If it is not anything newly posted or something you already said was offensive somewhere... Sorry nevermind I am re reading this thread to note all expressed offended feelings for future reference anyway....

Thank you for being so patient and welcoming to everyone's posts.

D.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

I don't know what "feminizing touch" is either.

Are there forms of touch that magically confer masculinity or femininity on the recipient?
What would be a form of masculinizing touch or feminizing touch?
Inquiring minds want to know!

Part 1

(warning: below are some outrageous examples used in attempt to discuss what it is to sexually 'feminize'. cringe-worthy, read with caution)

i asked my ever-insightful partner if he feels as though there are touches that are *feminizing* and if so what they might be. he couldn't really come up with one, so i offered, 'what if i said i was going to 'finger bang' you?' which got an eyeroll and a, 'you know i don't like that' so i asked, 'why? is it feminizing?' and he said, 'no, i'm just not into it' so, i continued, 'what if i went over and did a 'motorboat' on your chest-area?' and he laughed, 'i'd laugh' i persisted, 'would you get mad? would you think it was feminizing?' he explained, 'if you did that i know you'd be joking' (i wouldn't do that, btw) again i asked, 'is it feminizing?' and he's patient so he said, 'no, not feminizing, we just have been together long enough for me to know what you like and for you to know what i like...' so, of course i persisted, 'what if i said i wanted to suck your hot wet pussy?' again, he didn't find *any* of my examples as much 'feminizing' as absurd. i think i'm concluding that i can't 'feminize' what isn't feminine and attempting to wouldn't be what either of us is about. (additionally, i did try to discover WHY it is that he doesn't like a certain, 'sensation' (ones that i do) but was without success beyond, 'i just don't')

Part 2

also, i don't believe in stone femme (unless you define stone femme as someone with boundaries regarding touch, of their personal person.) otherwise 'stone femme' just means that someone isn't attracted to who their sleeping with--which is cool, i don't judge--but lets get on the same page, already.

Part 3

i'm reading, 'nickel and dimed' and i'm pretty sure it has me interested in conducting covert social research.

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by apretty

Part 1

(warning: below are some outrageous examples used in attempt to discuss what it is to sexually 'feminize'. cringe-worthy, read with caution)

i asked my ever-insightful partner if he feels as though there are touches that are *feminizing* and if so what they might be. he couldn't really come up with one, so i offered, 'what if i said i was going to 'finger bang' you?' which got an eyeroll and a, 'you know i don't like that' so i asked, 'why? is it feminizing?' and he said, 'no, i'm just not into it' so, i continued, 'what if i went over and did a 'motorboat' on your chest-area?' and he laughed, 'i'd laugh' i persisted, 'would you get mad? would you think it was feminizing?' he explained, 'if you did that i know you'd be joking' (i wouldn't do that, btw) again i asked, 'is it feminizing?' and he's patient so he said, 'no, not feminizing, we just have been together long enough for me to know what you like and for you to know what i like...' so, of course i persisted, 'what if i said i wanted to suck your hot wet pussy?' again, he didn't find *any* of my examples as much 'feminizing' as absurd. i think i'm concluding that i can't 'feminize' what isn't feminine and attempting to wouldn't be what either of us is about. (additionally, i did try to discover WHY it is that he doesn't like a certain, 'sensation' (ones that i do) but was without success beyond, 'i just don't')

Part 2

also, i don't believe in stone femme (unless you define stone femme as someone with boundaries regarding touch, of their personal person.) otherwise 'stone femme' just means that someone isn't attracted to who their sleeping with--which is cool, i don't judge--but lets get on the same page, already.

Part 3

i'm reading, 'nickel and dimed' and i'm pretty sure it has me interested in conducting covert social research.

OK I just gotta ask- what is "motorboating"?
Concerned I may be missing out on something here! Help a butch sista out!

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

OK I just gotta ask- what is "motorboating"?
Concerned I may be missing out on something here! Help a butch sista out!

Uh... place face between partners breasts, move face from side to side while either yelling or making "motorboat" sounds..

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by Linus

Uh... place face between partners breasts, move face from side to side while either yelling or making "motorboat" sounds..

wtf? I'm assuming you jest!
Hilarious guess tho....
You ARE joking, right? Right???

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Linus

Uh... place face between partners breasts, move face from side to side while either yelling or making "motorboat" sounds..

yes, that would be it

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

wtf? I'm assuming you jest!
Hilarious guess tho....
You ARE joking, right? Right???

No.. not joking. K actually likes it and it does add fun and giggles to an even more enjoyable morning/afternoon/evening

[Gemme]

apretty, I really enjoy your pov most of the time, but I have to admit I find it a bit dismissive to an entire group of femmes (myself included) to say you don't believe in Stone Femmes, with the exception of one kind.

Well, Hell...I can't tell anyone what to believe in or not, so I'm kind of stumped as to how to approach you on this. Everyone's free to their opinon, of course, and that's yours but as someone who was effectively tossed aside into the "make believe" pile, I have to say that I do, indeed, exist and I do not fall into the definition that you carry for Stone Femmes.

I am respectful of my partner's boundaries without personally having the 'no fly' zones that one may typically associate with Stones and I am actually VERY attracted to who I sleep with....when I can get him close enough to do so.

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by apretty

yes, that would be it

Originally Posted by Linus

No.. not joking. K actually likes it and it does add fun and giggles to an even more enjoyable morning/afternoon/evening

Oh MY GAY!
Why have I never heard of this?!?
I have never been motorboated, and suddenly I feel as if I've never been loved at all!
*placing motorboating ad on craigslist*
That is TOO funny!!!

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Gemme

apretty, I really enjoy your pov most of the time, but I have to admit I find it a bit dismissive to an entire group of femmes (myself included) to say you don't believe in Stone Femmes, with the exception of one kind.

sorry, Gemme, no offense meant.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by apretty

sorry, Gemme, no offense meant.

I figured as much, as I've read you for years now, but just wanted to put it out there that we do exist.