Leisha Hailey was kicked off plane for lesbian kiss

[Janny]

Come on. You know the airlines are nickeling and diming us for everything. If you don't pay your $50.00 Lesbian Fee...you're off the plane! ;^)

[EnderD_503]

Ok, so I was reading Metro on the way to school this morning and saw an article about this where they give a little more info. I suck at the Metro website so I'll just type up the article, it's short anyways.

Kicked off for Smooching
-> L Word actress says she was removed from plane for kissing partner

The publicist for a lesbian actress and musician who says she was escorted off a flight for "one modest kiss" of her partner says the encounter was not a stunt for her band's upcoming breast cancer awareness tour.

Leisha Hailey, best known for playing Alice Pieszecki in the now defunct Showtime lesbian life drama The L Word, asked her Twitter followers to boycott Southwest Airlines after the encounter Monday.

The airline responded that Hailey's display of affection was excessive and drew customer complaints.

The actress and her partner, Camila Grey, denied in a statement released yesterday that the affection they showed toward each other was inappropriate.

"We want to make it clear we were not making out or creating any kind of spectacle of ourselves, it was one modest kiss," the written statement said.

Hailey and Grey acknowledge they became upset after the flight attendant reprimanded them. They said the attendant told them that Southwest is a "family airline."

"No matter how quietly homophobia is whispered, it doesn't make it any less loud," the statement said. "You can't whisper hate. We ask this airline to teach their employees to not discriminate against any couple, ever, regardless of their own beliefs."

Hailey and Grey said they plan to file a formal complaint with the airline."

More and more I'm inclined to agree with her... that this was moreso a case of homophobia than excessive public displays of affection (and again, nobody seems to be going into detail except for Hailey herself who says it was one kiss...if that isn't the case, then why isn't anyone saying anything to the contrary beyond "the customers said it was excessive." If it was excessive, then they should be able to say what exactly happened, if it caught their attention so much.

[Quintease]

This was the same airline which kicked off a man for wearing baggy pants?

Clearly lesbians and scruffy men aren't the kind of custom they want in their plane, so why not get a bad name for themselves as judgemental idiots to attract the 'right' kind of customer..

Sometimes when people have an idea of how things are, they don't notice when their ideas are flawed. Gayers are sexualised just by existing, therefore, when we hold hands, kiss or have a snog fest, it is much more obvious to these small-minded 'family' oriented bigots than any heterosexual shenanigans.

I hope enough people see the wrong in this to damage their profits.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Quintease

This was the same airline which kicked off a man for wearing baggy pants?

Haha, yeah I think so. Heaven forbid you sag your pants on a fucking airplane.

Originally Posted by Quintease

Gayers are sexualised just by existing, therefore, when we hold hands, kiss or have a snog fest, it is much more obvious to these small-minded 'family' oriented bigots than any heterosexual shenanigans.

Gayers?

But yeah, that's pretty much it, I think. If you think about it, who are the public more likely to notice giving each other a "modest kiss," Joe and Jane Hetero, or two gay dudes or two lesbians. They are used to hetero couples showing each other affection in public, because it's something you expect of a "proper family unit," so they don't notice it, or see it as "normal." Hell, kids see it on Disney all the fucking time. But when it comes to queers they still haven't quite gotten Freud's "homosexuals be perverts" crap out of their heads yet (gee, they're slow on the uptake...) and so don't see queers as any other couple sharing a kiss in public. Instead they see...zomg ze deviantz be corrupting ze childrenz!

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Quintease

This was the same airline which kicked off a man for wearing baggy pants?

Clearly lesbians and scruffy men aren't the kind of custom they want in their plane, so why not get a bad name for themselves as judgemental idiots to attract the 'right' kind of customer..

Sometimes when people have an idea of how things are, they don't notice when their ideas are flawed. Gayers are sexualised just by existing, therefore, when we hold hands, kiss or have a snog fest, it is much more obvious to these small-minded 'family' oriented bigots than any heterosexual shenanigans.

I hope enough people see the wrong in this to damage their profits.

That guy was Billie Joe Armstrong, of Green Day.

Maybe they just hate celebrities?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_947397.html

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Gemme

That guy was Billie Joe Armstrong, of Green Day.

Maybe they just hate celebrities?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_947397.html

Nah, it wasn't Bill Joe (though they kicked him off, too). There was a US college basketball player or some such that was kicked off a plane (same airline, I'm pretty sure) for sagging his pants a few months ago, too. I think that's who she was referring to? There was a big hoopla over it, I recall.

[Medusa]

They also had an issue with a director or an actor because he was supposedly too fat for his seat. I'll have to look that one up.

Southwest is also becoming known as "The Seat Nazi Airline" when it comes to requiring fat people to buy an extra seat (sometimes even when the plane isn't completely full or even without checking to see if they fit first)

[theblueone]

Yeah Kevin Smith was kicked off that same airline because he was too fat. Either they don't like celebrities or they have a list of people they want kicked off the plane so fat people, baggy pant wearing poeple, and lesbians.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by theblueone

Yeah Kevin Smith was kicked off that same airline because he was too fat. Either they don't like celebrities or they have a list of people they want kicked off the plane so fat people, baggy pant wearing poeple, and lesbians.

So, if I'm a rail-thin, heterosexual in a full pantsuit, I should be okay?

[theblueone]

thats right...though its a family airline they appreciate full on camel toe

[stargazingboi]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertai...-1226147905568

I'm not big on PDAs. Never have been.

But I don't think everyone has to be like me.

Yet there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.

However, the problem is the line is different for everyone.

And it is in a different place depending on whether you are gay or straight.

Since the airline claimed the issue was one of degree I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt. If the degree of PDA was the problem for this airline or really for any airline, then surely heterosexual couples have had their fair share or at least SOME share of incidents where they stepped over the line. So I googled heterosexual couples tossed off planes for excessive kissing and got more stories about gay couples. I tried a different approach and googled has a heterosexual couple been admonished for overly sexual behavior and didn't put any more information just to see what issues hetero couples have surrounding PDA. But I just got more stuff about homosexuals.

It's hard to accept the airlines claim that it wasn't about gender.

What do people think about public displays of affection and the different standards for gays and straights?

First...regarding the gender issue mentioned..do heterosexuals face the same issues and get booted off flight for PDA? Yes..yes they do...a man in California was arrested and convicted after a 3 day trail for PDA with his girlfriend (link to story below..I found several stories like this one)

[URL="http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-57274.html"]


I have no doubt that one group of people will get more attention in the media than another...lets face it, it's about what will grab peoples attention and sell.


I'm of the mind set that there is a time and a place for everything. I sorta live by the...if I wouldn't do it in front of my parents or kids (whether my partner's kids/my foster kids when I have one placed with me etc)..then I don't do it in public places where other peoples parents or kids are.

Couples should be able to show affection to one another, it's actually quite healthy for a relationship. It also teaches our children what a healthy relationship looks like....of course once again...there is a time and a place for certain things.

For me it's about mutual respect.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by stargazingboi

First...regarding the gender issue mentioned..do heterosexuals face the same issues and get booted off flight for PDA? Yes..yes they do...a man in California was arrested and convicted after a 3 day trail for PDA with his girlfriend (link to story below..I found several stories like this one)

[URL="http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-57274.html"]


I have no doubt that one group of people will get more attention in the media than another...lets face it, it's about what will grab peoples attention and sell.


I'm of the mind set that there is a time and a place for everything. I sorta live by the...if I wouldn't do it in front of my parents or kids (whether my partner's kids/my foster kids when I have one placed with me etc)..then I don't do it in public places where other peoples parents or kids are.

Couples should be able to show affection to one another, it's actually quite healthy for a relationship. It also teaches our children what a healthy relationship looks like....of course once again...there is a time and a place for certain things.

For me it's about mutual respect.

I couldn't get through to this either by clicking on the link or by copying and pasting. I would be very interested in reading this as well as the several others you found. I spent a good deal of time yesterday trying to find something so any help would be greatly appreciated.

A big part of what bothered me about this incident was the apparent unfairness. That and the fact that every time I tried to find something about heterosexual public displays of affection or heterosexual overly sexual behavior, I was directed to something with the tag homosexual in it. Pissed me off a tad.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by stargazingboi

First...regarding the gender issue mentioned..do heterosexuals face the same issues and get booted off flight for PDA? Yes..yes they do...a man in California was arrested and convicted after a 3 day trail for PDA with his girlfriend (link to story below..I found several stories like this one)

[URL="http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-57274.html"]


I have no doubt that one group of people will get more attention in the media than another...lets face it, it's about what will grab peoples attention and sell.


I'm of the mind set that there is a time and a place for everything. I sorta live by the...if I wouldn't do it in front of my parents or kids (whether my partner's kids/my foster kids when I have one placed with me etc)..then I don't do it in public places where other peoples parents or kids are.

Couples should be able to show affection to one another, it's actually quite healthy for a relationship. It also teaches our children what a healthy relationship looks like....of course once again...there is a time and a place for certain things.

For me it's about mutual respect.

I figured out how to cut and paste the story. But I think there was a bit more to it than kissing

"According to an FBI indictment, Persing's face was pressed to Sewell's vaginal area during the September Southwest Airlines flight from Los Angeles to Raleigh, N.C. When a flight attendant gave them a second warning, Persing reacted angrily and the couple, both in their early 40s, were arrested when the plane reached its destination."

But at least you were able to find something.

[stargazingboi]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I couldn't get through to this either by clicking on the link or by copying and pasting. I would be very interested in reading this as well as the several others you found. I spent a good deal of time yesterday trying to find something so any help would be greatly appreciated.

A big part of what bothered me about this incident was the apparent unfairness. That and the fact that every time I tried to find something about heterosexual public displays of affection or heterosexual overly sexual behavior, I was directed to something with the tag homosexual in it. Pissed me off a tad.

Hmm I am fairly new to posting ..and haven't gotten the hang of putting links in here I guess. I hit the add link and cut and pasted the link...didn't work I see. I was able to cut and paste and it worked.


http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/story?i...C-RSSFeeds0312

the first one was part of another story and post..the referenced this *points above* link which was the original story on ABC ...perhaps, if I messed it up again, you cut and past that one it will work for you. However, I would be more than happy to send it along to you another way.

[JAGG]

What does it mean exactly when a company or organization says there are a family enviroment, or family this or family that? Do they think we don't have family? Or that we are not part of a family? Or that we don't have our own kids? What are we hatched and seperated at birth to grow and live alone from civilization and have no concept or understanding of family???? I just want to say that's awesome!!!!!!!! Cause I belong to a family , a great family! I have family and I am family( more ways than one) and my family loves me and I love my family so I'll fit right in here, no that we have that squared away, where do I sit! Can I get the family discount?

[stargazingboi]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I figured out how to cut and paste the story. But I think there was a bit more to it than kissing

"According to an FBI indictment, Persing's face was pressed to Sewell's vaginal area during the September Southwest Airlines flight from Los Angeles to Raleigh, N.C. When a flight attendant gave them a second warning, Persing reacted angrily and the couple, both in their early 40s, were arrested when the plane reached its destination."

But at least you were able to find something.

yes...but it's all in the perception isn't it? We are never given the full story in any article. However, it was asked if heterosexuals get booted from flights for PDA..and they do. Do we know how far they went? no..because we were not there. Did this couple go to fair? did Leisha go to fair? we wont really know because we were not there...

so, where do we draw the line? who determines this? In our country it is stated "you're rights end where mine begins" what does this really mean? We each must figure this out for ourselves...and this is what crossed my mind when I read your original post.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by stargazingboi

yes...but it's all in the perception isn't it? We are never given the full story in any article. However, it was asked if heterosexuals get booted from flights for PDA..and they do. Do we know how far they went? no..because we were not there. Did this couple go to fair? did Leisha go to fair? we wont really know because we were not there...

so, where do we draw the line? who determines this? In our country it is stated "you're rights end where mine begins" what does this really mean? We each must figure this out for ourselves...and this is what crossed my mind when I read your original post.

That is true. i suppose we are never given the full story in any article. But at some point I need to get to a place where I am comfortable with some idea of truth. I can't just say well, I don't know what happened so you are all wrong. Or you are all right for that matter. I have to do my homework. If I am interested in some issue I need to research it and come to a place where I believe I have enough knowledge or information to make an informed decision. I'm not saying I have enough in this case yet. I am saying that I am not prepared to say two women kissing is going too far. I might be prepared to say that putting your face in someone's vaginal area in a public place is going too far. However, it seems to me that the constant here was giving the flight attendants a hard time. I don't think they like that.

Also I might be prepared to say that the line for what is inappropriate behavior for homosexuals is in a very different place than it is for heterosexuals. I know so far evidence points to the possibility that this might be the case.

[stargazingboi]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

That is true. i suppose we are never given the full story in any article. But at some point I need to get to a place where I am comfortable with some idea of truth. I can't just say well, I don't know what happened so you are all wrong. Or you are all right for that matter. I have to do my homework. If I am interested in some issue I need to research it and come to a place where I believe I have enough knowledge or information to make an informed decision. I'm not saying I have enough in this case yet. I am saying that I am not prepared to say two women kissing is going too far. I might be prepared to say that putting your face in someone's vaginal area in a public place is going too far. However, it seems to me that the constant here was giving the flight attendants a hard time. I don't think they like that.

Also I might be prepared to say that the line for what is inappropriate behavior for homosexuals is in a very different place than it is for heterosexuals. I know so far evidence points to the possibility that this might be the case.

The way you are going about it..is indeed a wise way to approach most topics that provokes within. Over the course of time I have watched the world change regarding same sex couples. I have faced many issues that revolve around who I am..how I live etc. What I have found is...depending on where (what city and state) I am, will determine what line is drawn in the sand regarding appropriate and inappropriate behavior. I have found that in major cities the line is different...than in smaller towns or down south.

Do I think kissing is inappropriate..whether same sex or opposite..hell no? but what else was going on when the kiss occurred? bumping..grinding...hands roaming about? Could something else have caused the issue? perhaps..and then again depending on the flight attendant it could have been their own personal view that caused them to say something. Not sure

What we do know is that a disagreement occurred...a scene was made and that flights can not take off or continue being in flight when such disagreements are in effect. I have even been on a plan that landed to eject someone from the flight for causing a disruption (was a person who drank to much and became belligerent).

So..maybe it wasn't the kissing that caused the issue but the way it was handled? If they were on the ground and in the waiting area of the same airline would the situation have been handled differently? There is much to think about here

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by stargazingboi

First...regarding the gender issue mentioned..do heterosexuals face the same issues and get booted off flight for PDA? Yes..yes they do...a man in California was arrested and convicted after a 3 day trail for PDA with his girlfriend (link to story below..I found several stories like this one)

[URL="http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-57274.html"]


I have no doubt that one group of people will get more attention in the media than another...lets face it, it's about what will grab peoples attention and sell.


I'm of the mind set that there is a time and a place for everything. I sorta live by the...if I wouldn't do it in front of my parents or kids (whether my partner's kids/my foster kids when I have one placed with me etc)..then I don't do it in public places where other peoples parents or kids are.

Couples should be able to show affection to one another, it's actually quite healthy for a relationship. It also teaches our children what a healthy relationship looks like....of course once again...there is a time and a place for certain things.

For me it's about mutual respect.

The first thing that struck me about this case, that did not occur in the case of Hailey and Grey, is that the airline's reports actually were able to tell us what the couple was doing that constituted "inappropriate." In the case of Hailey, all they say is "it was inappropriate, it caused customer's to complain." They did not go into detail, and Hailey is the only one who tells us anything; that it was a "modest kiss" and they were not making out or causing a "spectacle" of themselves.

In the case of the heterosexual couple, the airline then needs to justify itself, and did when it reported (and it was confirmed) that

Carl Persing was convicted Thursday of interfering with flight attendants and crew members after he and his girlfriend, Dawn Sewell, were seen "embracing, kissing and acting in a manner that made other passengers uncomfortable," according to a criminal complaint.

According to an FBI indictment, Persing's face was pressed to Sewell's vaginal area during the September Southwest Airlines flight from Los Angeles to Raleigh, N.C. When a flight attendant gave them a second warning, Persing reacted angrily and the couple, both in their early 40s, were arrested when the plane reached its destination.

This report on the heterosexual couple is far more detailed, far more methodical. It tells us what happened step by step, that the couple were touching each other and kissing (we can probably assume making out), that man had his face pressed to the woman's vaginal area; that the flight attendant came back twice to tell them to stop, and that it was only when the man became enraged that further action was taken.

We have nothing of the sort in Hailey's case. Instead, we have very few details or comments by the airline (and the original article was heavily biased in order to make Hailey sound irrational/hysterical if you look at the quotes they used there vs. the ones in the later article, and the airline look "reasonable" and "family-oriented"), we don't know what was said, we don't know what went on, the airline won't tell us what was done that was inappropriate. The lack of details hints, again, to the potential homophobia that occurred. How far does a heterosexual have to go for this to happen? The case you've given us is rather extreme. How far does a homosexual couple have to go for this to happen? I'd gather a "modest kiss" just might do it.

If something like in the case of the heterosexual couple went on, something tells me they'd be all too willing to tell us.

[dykeumentary]

This situation points to an ever deeper problem, in my opinion. Airlines are only one entity that has been exercising full martial law/police state powers since the "patriot act" rolled out.

What I read is that the lesbians reacted angrily to the directions given by the flight attendants. That should be reasonable, but now because of TSA and homeland security, is not. it's against the law to not do exactly what someone in a position of Power says, regardless of how nonsensical or authoritarian or racist it is.

Consider what's happening in Arizona- if a police officer thinks you look like you speak Spanish, you have to provide documentation of your citizenship. You can land in a jail if you don't comply immediately. If you want to stand quietly, and bear witness to the police brutality happening at the demonstrations at Wall Street, you can be charged with obstructing justice.

We live in bizarre, deadly times. Any young black man could tell you what would happen to him when he gets angry- even if he's justified in doing so.

When these things happen I hope it brings more awarenes to the problems of our times. It is sad that the experience of injustice brings people to the fight against it.