A straight girl enters the queer world...

[BullDog]

DaddysKitten, I said I would take just as much interest as hers. Stop twisting my words. I had already clarified that, even though it was quite clear in the original post.

[DeviantDaddy]

Originally Posted by Julie

As far as wanting her to put effort into knowing me and my issues. Damn right I did. I want her to care enough about me to take the time to learn about me and my quirks/issues. When I was diagnosed with Cancer - I wanted her to know every little thing about my cancer without me having to explain it to her.

Agreed. One of the very things that attracted me to kitten when we first met was how incredibly, eager, she was to get to know me. My past, my present and all that I wanted for my future. Then when I got ill, she took it upon herself to research it and understand it.

[weatherboi]

I did ask for clarification in the title of my original post. Harsh as it may have been asked, it does not lessen the experience of two members trying to apply a theory that makes transguys look like i/we/they don't do their homework here on these forums or for the past ten years. It was/is harsh in itself however true it may be or not. As hard as it may be for some members to hear and i am sorry that it is "butch vs. transguy" or visa versa, it can be and has been a direct result of blanket statements like that and i was merely pointing out the thin ice people were beginning to tread on. It is hard for me to watch regressive thoughts put into place about transfolk in our community for all to keep reading from here to eternity and not say anything. I just can't do it. Thanks for listening.

[DeviantDaddy]

Bull,

1. She wasn't twisting your words.
2. Your post was not clear, ergo questions.
3. Refer to the very start of her post to yours.

Originally Posted by DaddysKitten

I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that. It almost sounds like you would take little interest, therefor expect them to not put much effort in either. But I will not assume that is what you meant, perhaps I just read it wrong. And perhaps the wording you choose is what is making people grow semi-offensive at your comments.

[Quintease]

Originally Posted by DeviantDaddy

she did make it perfectly clear that, were I to decide to transition, she would not remain by my side as my partner because she was a femme, lesbian.

I have always been conscious of the fact that to some, partnering with a transman can lead to some very deep soul searching for whatever reason. Their identity may come into question and I wouldn't like to downplay that in any way.

I think it's different when someone you already love begins to transition. It's like they're taking the person you know and love away and replacing them with someone else.

As for my ID I went through a lot of soul searching, but in the end realised I'd fallen for a person, not a gender. Had anyone told me that by 2012 I would have married a man, I would have rolled my eyes and assumed they were being homophobic. As it was, I may have married a man, but that didn't change my sexual identity at all.

[BullDog]

I haven't made any blanket statements. What has been discussed and not discussed on forums such as this is a matter of public record. Interpret it as you wish.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by DeviantDaddy

Bull,

1. She wasn't twisting your words.
2. Your post was not clear, ergo questions.
3. Refer to the very start of her post to yours.

I have myself perfectly clear and I have also clarified time and time again.

[DaddysKitten]

Originally Posted by BullDog

DaddysKitten, I said I would take just as much interest as hers. Stop twisting my words. I had already clarified that, even though it was quite clear in the original post.

You seem to be quite volatile, when addressing others. I was not twisting anything, I was asking for clarification on your statement. And had you dropped out of defensive mode for a moment, you would have seen me very politely mentioning that perhaps you should rethink your wording a little so people are not twisting your words, or reading a different understanding of them.

It seems to be happening with many people on this forum. I am not attacking you. Please, do not read it as such. You have enough vehemence coming from others, do not add me to that list, I was anything but.

[Melissa]

Originally Posted by Quintease

I think it's different when someone you already love begins to transition. It's like they're taking the person you know and love away and replacing them with someone else.

As for my ID I went through a lot of soul searching, but in the end realised I'd fallen for a person, not a gender. Had anyone told me that by 2012 I would have married a man, I would have rolled my eyes and assumed they were being homophobic. As it was, I may have married a man, but that didn't change my sexual identity at all.

Great point Quintease. The same happened to me. I Have identified as a lesbian for over 20 years but am now married to Rufusboi who transitioned nearly two years ago. I realized quickly though that he wasn't having a personality transition and that gender and pronouns doesn't change how I feel either about him or myself or how I identify. Julie mentioned in an earlier post that it is all about communication. It doesn't matter if you have been with someone for 2 weeks or 10 years you have to talk, share fears, ask questions and figure it out together.

Melissa

[Julie]

Originally Posted by Parker

Man, you like to stir up some shit, walk away, then come back with some misplaced righteous indignation later, huh?

I refused to take your bait when you pulled this shit in the duplicity thread and I am not taking it now - Bulldog said something and I agreed because I have seen it - or rather, the lack of it - too. Period.

Feel free to keep on keeping on with the shaming because it isnt going to make me sit down and shut up like a good little girl - but that doesnt mean I am going to sit here, take your shit, and argue with you about something no one ever said or did either.


I guess maybe it's time for the transguys to start demonizing the butches now, huh weatherboi.

WOW Parker. I don't know you. But, this is just ugly. Why is someone a shit stirrer if they are expressing their feelings? Is it simply you do not agree with him? And if so, can't you just say that, without being ugly?

And why use the term "Good Girl?" Sounds a bit misogynistic to me? Why not just say - I am not going to sit down and be silent? Do only Good Girls keep their mouths shut - cause this Good Girl doesn't.

Julie

[weatherboi]

Wow you get all this from me asking about blanket statements that butches were making about transguys in this thread?? What does the duplicity thread have anything to do with this?? I had an opinion over there and it makes me a shit stirrer and i have an opinion over here and it makes me a shit stirrer??? How so??? I never told anybody to sit down and be quiet or not have an opinion. Just because i voice a counter opinion to a member doesnt make me a shit stirrer. What bait are you talking about? i get you feel this is a correct assumption of your community. I get that you think transguys do less work here. I just don't agree with it. I voiced that. Period

Originally Posted by Parker

Man, you like to stir up some shit, walk away, then come back with some misplaced righteous indignation later, huh?

I refused to take your bait when you pulled this shit in the duplicity thread and I am not taking it now - Bulldog said something and I agreed because I have seen it - or rather, the lack of it - too. Period.

Feel free to keep on keeping on with the shaming because it isnt going to make me sit down and shut up like a good little girl - but that doesnt mean I am going to sit here, take your shit, and argue with you about something no one ever said or did either.


I guess maybe it's time for the transguys to start demonizing the butches now, huh weatherboi.

[aishah]

i have no idea what happened to this thread.

bulldog shared her perspective from her experience in butch/femme community that femmes often are the ones doing the research about partners in order to be more understanding, rather than ftms or butches. personally i found this insight extremely helpful because i recognize this pattern and i recognize myself in this pattern, but it's something i never stopped and thought about before. it also doesn't shock me, given how masculinity is centered in wider society. i don't see anything in bulldog's statement that tries to pit butches against transmen, or butches and transmen against femmes.

other folks have observed different things and maybe don't agree. not everyone has to agree.

i'm not sure what the hell happened. i don't by any means think that bulldog needs defending, but i did want to post publicly to say that i, for one, am grateful to both her and parker for speaking up on this thread. i have learned something valuable from it.

[Ebon]

Originally Posted by aishah

i have no idea what happened to this thread.

bulldog shared her perspective from her experience in butch/femme community that femmes often are the ones doing the research about partners in order to be more understanding, rather than ftms or butches. personally i found this insight extremely helpful because i recognize this pattern and i recognize myself in this pattern, but it's something i never stopped and thought about before. it also doesn't shock me, given how masculinity is centered in wider society. i don't see anything in bulldog's statement that tries to pit butches against transmen, or butches and transmen against femmes.

other folks have observed different things and maybe don't agree. not everyone has to agree.

i'm not sure what the hell happened. i don't by any means think that bulldog needs defending, but i did want to post publicly to say that i, for one, am grateful to both her and parker for speaking up on this thread. i have learned something valuable from it.

Oh threads like this always get caught up like this. The point usually gets lost about 4 pages in.

[Quintease]

Originally Posted by aishah

i have no idea what happened to this thread.
bulldog shared her perspective from her experience in butch/femme community that femmes often are the ones doing the research about partners in order to be more understanding, rather than ftms or butches. personally i found this insight extremely helpful because i recognize this pattern and i recognize myself in this pattern, but it's something i never stopped and thought about before. it also doesn't shock me, given how masculinity is centered in wider society. i don't see anything in bulldog's statement that tries to pit butches against transmen, or butches and transmen against femmes.

Agreed. In another forum I'm a member of they're currently having a discussion on how sexism works in the lesbian culture and the fact is, it does. Denying it is pointless. Masculine and feminine are treated very differently in this world.

[Julie]

Originally Posted by aishah

i have no idea what happened to this thread.

bulldog shared her perspective from her experience in butch/femme community that femmes often are the ones doing the research about partners in order to be more understanding, rather than ftms or butches. personally i found this insight extremely helpful because i recognize this pattern and i recognize myself in this pattern, but it's something i never stopped and thought about before. it also doesn't shock me, given how masculinity is centered in wider society. i don't see anything in bulldog's statement that tries to pit butches against transmen, or butches and transmen against femmes.

other folks have observed different things and maybe don't agree. not everyone has to agree.

i'm not sure what the hell happened. i don't by any means think that bulldog needs defending, but i did want to post publicly to say that i, for one, am grateful to both her and parker for speaking up on this thread. i have learned something valuable from it.

This is what happens in nearly all threads that discuss our community. Things go off track or get heated. It is often how we learn from one another and understand different perspectives.

It's what people do. They discuss and discuss and discuss.

What is not okay, is getting ugly and calling people names. Not okay and that needs to be called out. We all have various opinions on every subject. And personally, I think this is a beautiful thing.

I know Bully real time, as I know Weatherboi and a bunch of the other posters here. Just because we disagree with one another, does not mean we are attacking and does not mean we cannot all come together after our disagreements and share a meal.

Julie

[aishah]

i understand that threads get heated and off-topic, which is generally the point at which i choose step back publicly. however, i had sent a message to bulldog privately thanking her for her posts, and i didn't feel right about not voicing my support of what she said publicly when her words have clearly been misinterpreted.

[BullDog]

Thank you very much aishah. You do understand what I have been saying perfectly.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Julie

This is what happens in nearly all threads that discuss our community. Things go off track or get heated. It is often how we learn from one another and understand different perspectives.

It's what people do. They discuss and discuss and discuss.

What is not okay, is getting ugly and calling people names. Not okay and that needs to be called out. We all have various opinions on every subject. And personally, I think this is a beautiful thing.

I know Bully real time, as I know Weatherboi and a bunch of the other posters here. Just because we disagree with one another, does not mean we are attacking and does not mean we cannot all come together after our disagreements and share a meal.

Julie

Agreed Julie. We're not all going to have those kumbiya moments, but I'll tell ya' what..I got Bully's back and weatherboi's and Ebons and Parkers, and, and.
Family often don't see eye to eye, thing is we don't have to. That doesn't mean we don't get to have differing opinions, it means we are diverse, and that in my book is always a good thing.

[BullDog]

I think it is important when we do disagree to do so respectfully. I haven't accused anyone of demonizing or starting a butch vs trans war or making blanket statements. To me that is quite different than Julie and I or Corkey and I having a different point of view and discussing things respectfully.

I believe in any relationship both partners or prospective partners have equal responsibilities. I don't think stone butches or transmen or anyone else have any less responsibility or go through any more than anyone else does. Just because someone doesn't know much about stone butch doesn't mean there is more of a burden on her to learn more about me. We are both equally responsible to learn about and understand each other.

[Words]

Just a thought...

Do these two know that their relationship is being discussed on a public forum? Does one know? Do both know? Did anyone think to ask them - both of them - if it would be okay?


Words