FTM place to vent and talk

[Darbonaire]

I know that in the puberty years I put on weight to "hide" the girl body...it didn't work of course....lol....& now it's HELL to take it off. I remember when I had my top surgery...My God I was the happiest man alive....lol...ask my ex...she went through it with me & wow...I was on top of the world. There's a pic of me walking the grandbaby in my boxers & no shirt......lololol....maybe that's TMI..sorry....

I've never had any of this discomfort with my body...yep, I'm overweight & am changing it slowly...but, I have always looked male even before transition & others have verified this, so it's not just me thinking that. When I look in the mirror now I see a handsome guy looking back. I LOVE my beard....LOVE my chest...hate my back hair....LOL...but, generally..I've always known I was a guy.....it's nice to be aligned now. I began the change at 30 years old & I am a bit envious of these young guys who are starting in their 20's.....but, we all go at our own pace.

Just be comfotable inside & let yoursefl BE who you are......nothing has to go at any pace other than what is right for you as an individual.

I love this thread too....

Jonathan

[BrutalDaddy]

Originally Posted by Greyson

Brutal, thanks for opening up more. I don't think I have ever seen you post as much like I have in the last few days. It's great getting to know some of you guys in a much more below the surface way.

Addiction, anger management, domestic violence in our community is something I have ponder for a few years. Another very sensitive area.

Thanks Greyson. I feel like I'm babbling all over the place. Lol. I completely agree with it being great getting to know others on a deeper level.

You know what, you're right. Those are issues I have never seen discussed here or on other site for that matter. Well except friend of Bill W. thread. Always thought I was an addict cause I wasn't a good person. When in reality it is because I couldn't cope with the reality of my situation which is I was born in the wrong body for whatever reason.


Awesome Points,
Brute.

[weatherboi]

It is funny you bring up anger management and domestic violence. I recently heard of an acquaintance that is struggling and after asking around about resources and talking to friends have realized the need for resources tackling these very problems you mention. I believe but have no statistics to back it up that these problems may be on the rise within our community. It is definitely something to examine.

Originally Posted by Greyson

Brutal, thanks for opening up more. I don't think I have ever seen you post as much like I have in the last few days. It's great getting to know some of you guys in a much more below the surface way.

Addiction, anger management, domestic violence in our community is something I have ponder for a few years. Another very sensitive area.

[DMW]

Hello All,

I am going to put this FAQ post in the thread so that i have a quick reference to the TOS and for a personal reminder. In addition, others within this thread can see it and use it too.

I am glad that people have been enjoying the thread. Thank you for
all of your postitive Thank you notes.

And wow, i will never catch up to reading all of these...



Reporting Posts - FAQ
Hi Folks -

We've had a couple of issues pop up over the last several weeks with reported posts so I wanted to post a thread with a few reminders:


1. When To Report a Post

You can report a post anywhere on the forums *except* for the Red Zone. The Red Zone is set up as a non-moderated area and we will not respond to or moderate posts in that area unless someone has made a threat of some kind.

You may choose to report posts that are against the TOS or that you think are harmful to the community in some way.

Please remember that if you see a post that really pisses you off, you have a choice to either engage directly with the person who made it OR you can report it but if you do both, we more than likely will not moderate your report.

2. What Admins and Moderators "See" on the Site

We have in excess of 1000 posts per day here, sometimes a lot more than that. Please remember that the Admins and Moderators do not see every post that has been made on the site so you should not assume that we saw a post and are "ok" with whatever was posted.

We have encountered several situations where someone gets moderated and then replies to us with "Well, so and so said x, y, z last week and you did nothing so this isn't fair!".
My first question to you will be, "Did you report the post?"
If you did not report the post, then please do not assume we saw it.


3. Against the TOS/ Not Against the TOS

Our TOS is pretty clear but there will be times that issues are more of a gray area and we have to use our best judgment on what to moderate.

Things like hateful postings, racist or sizist posts, or things that are blatantly ugly will, unquestionably, be moderated.

Other things like passive-aggressive postings or "poking"-type posts will be dealt with provided we can clearly determine that one member is targeting another.
If you report a post and have to draw us a map or give us lots of explanation or 5 years of history to convince us that the post is about you, we more than likely will not moderate it.

For example:

We *will* moderate this post:
Person A: "My most recent ex girlfriend ate kittens every morning and then crapped her pants on the way to work!"

This post would get moderated if you and your "ex" were posting love notes to each other a week ago on the site or had identifying information in profiles such as "Medusa's Lover!" so that people would know that you were talking about Medusa in the post above.

We *will not* moderate this post:
Person A: "I can't stand shrimp soup. It makes me gag!"

If you report the post and tell us that you and person A had shrimp soup on your first date and that they are only posting it to poke at you, then how would anyone but you and the other person know that?

We get that people can be very crafty with posting things under the wire and we will not always be able to moderate those things.
Our litmus test is to read the post in a vaccuum and ask ourselves: "Would this post catch our attention if we didn't know the backstory?"

If you find that someone is poking at you but doing it under the wire, please put them on ignore. Our biggest trouble is getting people who do not like one another to put each other on ignore.

With all this being said, we do not want people behaving like assholes and jabbing at their exes and trying to be so sneaky that they think nobody else will know. If it comes down to us seeing a trail of posts that are "borderline", that person will probably be getting a note from us.


4. Response Time for Moderations

If you report a post, PLEASE consider that the Admins and Moderators will get to it as soon as they can. If we are very busy in our personal lives or if there have been a bunch of reported posts lately, it might take up to a day for us to respond. We generally try to respond to reports as soon as they happen but this is not always possible and we appreciate people being patient.

If you report a post and don't get a response within a couple of hours or haven't seen us address it publically, please do not assume you are being "ignored" or that your post isnt being looked at. Sometimes we are just stuck in meetings, or asleep, or busy tapping down drama that never makes it to the front page of the site.

5. Gallery and Chat Reports

If something happens in the chat room and you think we need to know about it, please contact us with the usernames of the people involved and the date and time that it happened.
Jackhammer reviews the chat logs every morning and we have been addressing some issues in private. Scorp is our chat room Moderator and you can contact her with any concerns via private message or feel free to send your concerns to me or any of the other Moderators.

If you need to report a gallery photo, there is a "report photo" button on every picture. Please remember that nudity of any kind is not allowed in our galleries or in photo threads.


I hope that this helps! As always, we are open for questions or clarifications and appreciate all of you!

Thanks!
Angie
__________________
http://www.zombiemonitor.com

http://www.tokenfatgirl.com
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[DMW]

Weatherboi, thanks for your reply. I also agree to let all of the past posts go too. I can agree to that. I think it is best for everyone here and the site
Thanks

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Hey DMW-
I want to thank you for the dialogue and hope you understand after this I am ready to let all this go

I got a lot to do tonight so i won't be able to read what i have missed.
Maybe if i free up some time i will be able to.

[Greyson]

weatherboi, I am unsure if domestic violence and anger management issues are on the rise or if it is much more openly talked about in the Queer community. Back in the 80s I went into a Lesbian Recovery Residential Program in Los Angeles. There was an assumption that "Butches" were most likely the offenders in regards to violence and I have heard similar reasoning in regards to FTMs being excessively aggressive as a result of taking T.

I don't want to get into the blame game. I do want to bring these topics out of the closet and discussed openly. I have observed some cultural differences in what one might consider violence. I am not talking about physical violence. I am talking about things like yelling verses talking. Face gestures, body language.

Domestic Violence does exist in the LGBTQ Community. How can we change it? I don't think it is as easy as shunning a person or persons of a specific gender or gender expression. Abusers do not deserve to be placated with no consequences.I think there should be restitution by the abuser and rehabilitation for some, not all.

I suspect there are members here that have hit, and emotionally abused their partners. I do not believe that is necessarily something they want to examine and come out with it. BTW, a few years back there was a couple in Texas. It was a Transman that was charged with the murder of his femme partner. I believe they were members with many of us over on the old site. Did anyone ever follow up on this? Did our community learn anything from this tragedy?

Originally Posted by weatherboi

It is funny you bring up anger management and domestic violence. I recently heard of an acquaintance that is struggling and after asking around about resources and talking to friends have realized the need for resources tackling these very problems you mention. I believe but have no statistics to back it up that these problems may be on the rise within our community. It is definitely something to examine.

[Hominid]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

It is totally not cool to refer to butches as envious when it is only a guess about a group of peoples character. It is divisive at best with an air of insecurity on the part of the accuser. Self inflicted. Qualifiers don't give us a pass to say whatever we want to. If you read back to that post Darbonaire made, he was merely taking a side swiping guess about the envy. Shit stirring verbiage and he even admitted to it. I think he even insinuated that he didn't care. All this stuff is way overkill to describe an experience.
.

It IS cool if it's how it seems, and if the person posting says that's how it seems to him with *some* butches - which is, I believe the case. It's perfectly legitimate to discuss whether that perception is correct.

In MY case, and MY case alone, the four butches I have known well enough to process with have TOLD me that PART of their issue was jealousy - and through further processing of the kind discussed a little earlier (reflecting on whether the desire to transition was some form of misogyny) they came to a different place than I did. I was told by these friends that my transitioning forced them to consider that they could be male if they wanted, and part of that process for them was feeling that it would be too difficult, too hard to deal with in their lives, and this made them angry and jealous - for a period of time. Of course, it was one small part of their own process, but it did exist, and important for us to discuss because it came between us. I do NOT feel that all butches go through this or feel this way - nor do I even have an opinion on how many might - I only know it CAN be so - and is usually transient.

That said, there are times when PARTS of me hearken for the simpler days of being a young, hot butch and be admired by the community.

[Hominid]

Originally Posted by ruffryder

fellas does it ruffle your feathers when femmes or straight women compare you to hot bio males or is it a confidence boost and something you hope would happen?
.

I love it. The last was Jack Nicholson - after I looked horrified, she said in his younger days. I don't believe her. But I'll take it - not really because he's a born-male, but because the last few years have been the first time in my life anyone has compared me to anyone at all. It grounds me and gives me a sense of how I am perceived, a mirror. The dysphoria doesn't end so much, at least for me, with transition. People have a very clear image of me, and it is helpful to hear what that is. Even comments like "you strike me as the kind of guy who ..." -are incredibly useful and grounding for me.

[Greyson]

Hominid, I believe you. These sort of things can and do happen to many of us. For me, I internalized so much of this sort of thing. It hurt deeply and it made me much more angry, isolated emotionally, judgmental and fearful. Now where do go with all of this stuff trapped internally? The "others" that hurt me went on and lived their lives. (BTW, I am not talking about exes. I am talking about the isms.) I did a lot of chest thumping like Brutal because I was not sure of myself.

I am not saying this is part of your character, how you tick. I am saying some of us are and some us of may be. Again, without even realizing it.

Originally Posted by Hominid

It IS cool if it's how it seems, and if the person posting says that's how it seems to him with *some* butches - which is, I believe the case. It's perfectly legitimate to discuss whether that perception is correct.

In MY case, and MY case alone, the four butches I have known well enough to process with have TOLD me that PART of their issue was jealousy - and through further processing of the kind discussed a little earlier (reflecting on whether the desire to transition was some form of misogyny) they came to a different place than I did. I was told by these friends that my transitioning forced them to consider that they could be male if they wanted, and part of that process for them was feeling that it would be too difficult, too hard to deal with in their lives, and this made them angry and jealous - for a period of time. Of course, it was one small part of their own process, but it did exist, and important for us to discuss because it came between us. I do NOT feel that all butches go through this or feel this way - nor do I even have an opinion on how many might - I only know it CAN be so - and is usually transient.

That said, there are times when PARTS of me hearken for the simpler days of being a young, hot butch and be admired by the community.

[weatherboi]

Greyson, I am unsure to, this is why I stated that I was merely guessing. I think it is a combination of both rising populations within the trans community and people are talking about it more hence the experience I spoke about. I stopped long ago allowing myself to feed into the myth that T makes guys aggressive, I am pretty sure that the abusive nature was there long before the T. I think that all genders can be perpetrators of domestic violence but since I am FTM I am gonna stick to my gender. I am not sure what you mean by the blame game. I do not see anybody here blaming anybody for anything when it comes to domestic violence and let me be perfectly clear. I won't take this space and use it as a place to try and debunk myths or truths that people are too scared to tackle. If we wanna talk about DV then let's stick to our gender. Cultural differences I can deal with but speaking about other genders here pertaining to domestic violence not so much. I don't know if I am comfortable speaking of that couple. It is a sensitive topic for many and some people here were friends with her.

Originally Posted by Greyson

weatherboi, I am unsure if domestic violence and anger management issues are on the rise or if it is much more openly talked about in the Queer community. Back in the 80s I went into a Lesbian Recovery Residential Program in Los Angeles. There was an assumption that "Butches" were most likely the offenders in regards to violence and I have heard similar reasoning in regards to FTMs being excessively aggressive as a result of taking T.

I don't want to get into the blame game. I do want to bring these topics out of the closet and discussed openly. I have observed some cultural differences in what one might consider violence. I am not talking about physical violence. I am talking about things like yelling verses talking. Face gestures, body language.

Domestic Violence does exist in the LGBTQ Community. How can we change it? I don't think it is as easy as shunning a person or persons of a specific gender or gender expression. Abusers do not deserve to be placated with no consequences.I think there should be restitution by the abuser and rehabilitation for some, not all.

I suspect there are members here that have hit, and emotionally abused their partners. I do not believe that is necessarily something they want to examine and come out with it. BTW, a few years back there was a couple in Texas. It was a Transman that was charged with the murder of his femme partner. I believe they were members with many of us over on the old site. Did anyone ever follow up on this? Did our community learn anything from this tragedy?

[Greyson]

weatherboi, my apologies. I was not implying any of the posts were doing the blame game. I want to try and stay away from that slippery slope. I do know I still have bruised feelings about things that took place 20 - 30 years ago and if I allow it, I can get into the "blame game" myself. I don't think expressing my anger about such perceived injustices, snarks really adds much to the talking, analysis, unpacking that we do here as a community. Again, my apologies. I was not saying you or anyone is "blaming."


As for a sensitive topic, I understand. You do not need to comment. I did not give their online names or their "real time" names. My point is I really want others who are newer to all of this, to get it, cut to the chase. These things can and do happen. Many of our conversations here are not based in make believe.

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Greyson, I am unsure to, this is why I stated that I was merely guessing. I think it is a combination of both rising populations within the trans community and people are talking about it more hence the experience I spoke about. I stopped long ago allowing myself to feed into the myth that T makes guys aggressive, I am pretty sure that the abusive nature was there long before the T. I think that all genders can be perpetrators of domestic violence but since I am FTM I am gonna stick to my gender. I am not sure what you mean by the blame game. I do not see anybody here blaming anybody for anything when it comes to domestic violence and let me be perfectly clear. I won't take this space and use it as a place to try and debunk myths or truths that people are too scared to tackle. If we wanna talk about DV then let's stick to our gender. Cultural differences I can deal with but speaking about other genders here pertaining to domestic violence not so much. I don't know if I am comfortable speaking of that couple. It is a sensitive topic for many and some people here were friends with her.

[Hominid]

Originally Posted by Greyson

Hominid, I believe you. These sort of things can and do happen to many of us. For me, I internalized so much of this sort of thing. It hurt deeply and it made me much more angry, isolated emotionally, judgmental and fearful. Now where do go with all of this stuff trapped internally? The "others" that hurt me went on and lived their lives. (BTW, I am not talking about exes. I am talking about the isms.) I did a lot of chest thumping like Brutal because I was not sure of myself.

I am not saying this is part of your character, how you tick. I am saying some of us are and some us of may be. Again, without even realizing it.

I'm sorry Greyson - I completely lost you ... chalk it up to the hurricane? I do not feel offended at all. I value open communication and what people INTEND more than anything at all. Do you mind sharing what sort of thing you internalized? And what "this" you are not saying is part of my character?
I feel like I'm missing something you are trying to communicate that is very important -

[Greyson]

Hi Hominid. Sorry I have really been burning up the keyboard today and maybe I am just feeling too much to be articulate. What I am trying to say is I believe you that there were butch pals that felt jealous. Not all butches are Trans but most butches, I think have been forced to ponder gender. Most butches are gender outlaws. We/they do not fit the "norm."

So, butches, FTMs, others all of us can say and do hurtful things to our own community. Then, how does that make you feel? Do you feel hurt? Does your hurt turn into anger? Can you let it roll off your back or does it stick in you somewhere? It stuck for me, for years. What I have learned is that my hurt, fear festered. It did not stop the lives of the people who judged me, treated me with disregard. They moved on. I was stuck then I felt even more isolated and angry. This did not serve me.The one I was hurting and frustrating the most was myself. Sometimes I overcompensated in ways that gave credence to negative stereotypes.

My question, have you ever had similar feelings and responses? I am not asking you this in an acusatory way. My hope is that all of us participating in this thread can move forward, find some affirmation for who we are, and find some understanding for those who may not always agree with us, collectively.

Clear as mud. I know.

Originally Posted by Hominid

I'm sorry Greyson - I completely lost you ... chalk it up to the hurricane? I do not feel offended at all. I value open communication and what people INTEND more than anything at all. Do you mind sharing what sort of thing you internalized? And what "this" you are not saying is part of my character?
I feel like I'm missing something you are trying to communicate that is very important -

[Hominid]

Greyson -

That was very clear, thank you. And please, don't walk on eggshells with me. Of course others are reading, but you owe ME no explanations or apologies.

Ah, I see now. I felt hurt and humiliated - like the entire town was judging me - for about six months. It was hard at work, my closest friend and I didn't communicate much. I attribute that as much to appearing gender-neutral, being extremely self-conscious and feeling that everyone was talking about me (which they most likely were). I was scared for my kids and nervous around my neighbors. I felt like a freak to straight people and a source of shame and judgment to lesbians.

I worked a lot, which was equally hard, patients would ask other staff after I left the room whether I was male or female. But I got more support there than elsewhere. Sometime, somehow - I saw "me" in the mirror, and my validation came from strangers taking me for who I was; not some complex statement on what gender and sexuality means - and I was really aware of straight people who knew, or who found out, immediately thinking about my genitals.

Now, with time - and this is all in retrospect obviously, I think it has helped a lot that the scales have tipped. More people don't know than do. With those I know know, it is rarely a topic. I keep pictures up of me pre-transition - not lots, but I'm not taking down a meaningful picture. Besides, I was cute. I have pictures of my graduation with my late father, my mom's favorite picture of me as a little girl, and pictures of me with my daughter when she was born.

I guess that's way off topic. But .. in answer to your question, I didn't carry much anger. I had frustration with my closest friend. I felt a lot of shame which was corrected when the transition was "complete" for me. However, I didn't have a large community either. I was married with two small kids - the bulk of my social life was soccer games. I left it to my then-wife to tell people, which now I realize was a mistake that retarded my own ability to deal with having done it. Anyway, being buried in a family at the time meant I didn't have to move about in the world alone, I had the roles of father and husband to insulate me, so I was very fortunate.

Thank you for clarifying - I felt like I missed a post or something!

[Linus]

Originally Posted by ruffryder

I know I've asked lots of questions to be answered already but here's more.. It will keep the thread busy



FTM visibility, invisibility - thoughts , share stories, experiences?

<snip>

All the time. I see gay couples and want to reach out and go "HEY! Family!" It's one of the curse/blessings of T in that I can hide or blend for safety but that same ability means that trying to find community locally can be hard since it's not as obvious.

Originally Posted by Greyson

I have been on T for 3.5 years and there are times I still get referred to as ma'am or lady by strangers. Like ank in my head "What part of me looks like a lady? Really?" Then my head goes to Why does your gut clench when someone genders you as a woman? Subtle stuff but there.

I know it is not the same for other Trans guys. This is how it is for me. I claim a third gender sort of thing. I cannot let go of my past. I am a pragmatic sort and I think it is political for me. I do not want to be invisible in terms of my queerness. I do not want straight people or queers to assume I am a cisman. So, why did I transition? It felt right for me and I experienced something in my life that was the final blow. I wanted FULL and Equal rights in the eyes of the law. Enough for now.

From the point I started my beard to now, I haven't had the wrong pronouns. Society is very visual but part of the challenge (at least from what I've noticed) is how baby faced we can look. I find T resulted in me getting ID'd more often (especially when my head is shaved and no one can gauge my age based on the salt'n'pepper).

And agreed. I didn't transition to fit in. That's why I DIDN'T pursue this years ago. I transitioned for me so that my own skin would feel like home to me and not some stranger staring back in the mirror.

Originally Posted by ruffryder

<snip>

Do we all use male restrooms here?
<snip>

Yes. And I sit. And never am I challenged on it. It does present challenges for when I'm out at sporting events where stalls are rarer but it highlights the last bit of my transition that I want to complete. (not fully phallo but hysto and metio likely)

Originally Posted by Greyson

Yes, I am told often by my girlfriend that she thinks I am a hottie. The thing is, I don't believe it about myself. I struggle with fluxuations in my body weight. Always have since the day I was born. I was the heavier twin. Oops that is another thread.

And this brings to mind another thing I noticed when I was a child in elementary school. Why is it that men can be rather obese and still found desirable, sexual? Take a look around guys. What is in the movies, in real life? Big guys are referred to as "Big Guys, Portly, Strong." Large women get terms like "Fat B__tch, I wouldn't poke that......." You guys know the drill. How many times may we have discounted a woman because of her size? (You can throw in age with that too.)

This is something of a challenge. Although K often says how hot I am (she likes teddy bear cuddly types), I often see myself like George Costanza (Seinfeld). I don't workout enough to be anything other than portly. All my life I've battled weight issues (too heavy) and as much as K likes this, she knows that I cannot maintain this (for health reasons). Now if I maintained the exercise regime I did when I was teaching at the college, I could look more along the lines of what the world expects of young men.

That said, there is a double standard, for sure. I'll age gracefully. I'll get the "high fives" for dating a women 16 years my junior. Nevermind that she has beauty, brains and brawn in one. Society is more interested in objectifying woman as only beauty objects rather than looking at the whole person they are. And the view that they need to be one way drives me insane.

For example, I'm watching Criminal Minds this morning and I've always found Garcia hot. It's all attitude and brains for me. Always.

Originally Posted by weatherboi

When I met Snow I was on my was on my way to being anorexic from dysphoria. The more weight I lost the more I passed and no amount of weights I lifted or running I did was keeping up with the amount of weight I was losing and the gaunt appearance I was taking on. I wasn't seeing that. I was hyper focused with doing drive by quick glances in the mirror so I could get that validation from my physical appearance finally meeting up with what my brain sees I am. I was limiting my nutrition and doubling up on working out. I was breaking out all over and my asthma was at an all time high. One of the many dyphoric vortexes that I have been able to recognize over the years. Someone had asked earlier in the thread how the femmes/women in our lives have helped support us. Snow helped me out of that vortex. My body weight is now something I try not to make a big deal out of or I will get all caught up and starve myself. Other people battle dysphoria?

I get told I am hot in many different ways and I am glad I don't get compared to bio guys. Part of my dysphoria revolves around my disconnect with how I look in my head and how I look to the world.

Yes I use the mens bathroom and have been for some years. I always use a stall now. I have tried STP's and they all seem to malfunction eventually.

I still battle some dysphoria but it's not as bad as it once was. I still want to get into shape (other than round, although that is a shape). Your experience makes me wonder sometimes if there is still some unexplored issue that I need to address in regards to my eating habits (then again, it could be that I'm just a geek who likes soda and video games too much).

And it's heartening to know that I'm not the only one who finds the STP a challenge in some way or another.

[Julien]

I would like to thank everyone for their insights to themselves, our society and our community. I'm learning a lot about you and what to expect and feel better about what I am experiencing as I go through my transition. As a way to better understand this journey, I am writing a manuscript about my own path to transitioning and it helps to have a place to come to that is safe and supportive to talk about a variety of issues pertaining to this. I have been getting very kind and supportive feedback from my earlier posts and I appreciate it very much. One person commented that it must be lonely for me to be in my particular situation. I must say that it is to a degree and I tend to isolate myself when I think that my outing myself as trans would cause some problem. However, I want to be true to myself and live the life I was meant to live. I am now 50 and do not want to be on the fringe. Someone in an earlier post asked whether we dated lesbians or straight women. I am attracted to the person who accepts me as I am. I personally would love to have a partner who is accepting of me as I am, even at this inbetween stage and will stay with me as I transition. It is something I want in my life. I had a Lady friend who told me I was gorgeous and masculine just the way I am right now and that really gave me a boost to my self esteem. I just wish she was my girlfriend. Thanks for this thread.

[Hominid]

I hope this doesn't seem like a platitude, but something I always said to myself that helped, a little, was "I don't need to know HOW I will make it, only THAT I will make it" - put one foot in front of the other. And remember how great it is that you have this option, that you will have the choice about how to be perceived and identify, and you WILL get to be an old man. The baby face does go away. The beard moves up from the neck (and remember, for the most part, only those in the community know what that neck beard thing is - it IS a clear sign to most of the world that you are male, even if it's a little funny looking - if it really bothers you, consider isolating some part of your hair - for me, it was long sideburns until more grew in). Treat yourself to razors and the process - stroll confidently into bathroom stalls and plop your ass down like every other guy who needs to sit for whatever reason. It is hard to feel in between, it was the hardest time for me, much harder than being female. But you're on the dredge up the hill with the sled - soon you'll be flying down the mountain on your own path.

Originally Posted by Julien

I would like to thank everyone for their insights to themselves, our society and our community. I'm learning a lot about you and what to expect and feel better about what I am experiencing as I go through my transition. As a way to better understand this journey, I am writing a manuscript about my own path to transitioning and it helps to have a place to come to that is safe and supportive to talk about a variety of issues pertaining to this. I have been getting very kind and supportive feedback from my earlier posts and I appreciate it very much. One person commented that it must be lonely for me to be in my particular situation. I must say that it is to a degree and I tend to isolate myself when I think that my outing myself as trans would cause some problem. However, I want to be true to myself and live the life I was meant to live. I am now 50 and do not want to be on the fringe. Someone in an earlier post asked whether we dated lesbians or straight women. I am attracted to the person who accepts me as I am. I personally would love to have a partner who is accepting of me as I am, even at this inbetween stage and will stay with me as I transition. It is something I want in my life. I had a Lady friend who told me I was gorgeous and masculine just the way I am right now and that really gave me a boost to my self esteem. I just wish she was my girlfriend. Thanks for this thread.

[Hominid]

Oh -Julien -

Another thing that REALLY, really helps - once you realize that straight people don't perceive you as trans, you may find it help a lot to spend an afternoon at a bookstore, or browsing Home Depot - anywhere with people, all by yourself. Every guy who ignores you or nods, every woman who ignores you or smiles at you, the little flirtations from the woman selling coffee (or guy) - it is extremely empowering when the rest of your life is more complex and filled with people transitioning along with you (in their perception of you).

Do it as soon as you can. It's a treat.

[BrutalDaddy]

Julien, I can totally get where you're coming from. In the "inbetween" stage myself in a lot of ways. Most of my family gets that I was born in wrong body but only few of them acknowledge it. Same with friends.

Depending on how my hair is cut, I'll either get Sir'ed or Ma'am'ed on a day to day basis. Not sure what the hell makes it one way or the other but I know it has to be more then just the looks. Maybe it's Ma'am when I'm having one of my "pitiful" me days. Lol. Who knows. And for the record I am NOT saying that when I'm all meek and mild that's when folks "see me as a female" so therefore that must be what I'm saying. No. What I am saying is when I carry myself with confidence and look folks in the eye and a square jaw, they tend to stick with their first instinct which is usually Sir. Only if I look away do they then go into the whole, "Oh shit Ma'am, I'm sorry. How can I help you Ma'am?"

Julien, I realize this is a bit off topic but I'm a lil slow sometimes (just ask the wife) and it just now dawned on me that you live very VERY close to 'sational and I. We'd love to get together for coffee sometime if you'd like? I won't be home for at least two more weeks but if you wanted to spend time with "family" before then, 'sational has time on her hands. I'm sure she'd love to meet up for some coffee. She'll take any excuse to drink coffee. Lol. Plus we both don't have a whole lotta rainbow family round here so it'd be pretty bad ass to not only have one but one from here!

No pressure at all. Lol. Just realized that must come across like some sales pitch or something. If so, sorry about that. Just pm one of us if ya want to and if not, totally get it.

As far as the inbetween stage goes, it's here for a while until I get some of my own personal shit squared away. Only way can consciously make decision to be on T and be doing it for the right reasons, i.e. for myself and not so society sees me for who I really am. It does suck sometimes because you're like caught in this midair jump that you can't go back on or finish so you're just left hanging there for now. Eh, that's life. Won't lie though, I do look forward to growing facial hair. Just once. Used to watch Hank (sperm donor whom the state calls my father) shave in the morning and I can remember just being so damn envious. I'm not talking in my teen years either but at the age of three and four. Would slather my face with shaving cream and use this really old shaving kit mom had found at a garage sale and gotten for me. Had no blade in it. God, I think she subconsciously knew even before I did.

Okay, rambled enough for this post. Thanks guys. Julien, let us know either way if you want? Again, no pressure at all. I'm serious.


Brute.


P.S. My wife gets confused when I call her 'sational so I'll just stick with her name, julie.

[Hominid]

Avatar Change 'cause I keep thinking "holy crap, did I post that?" and it's Brutal