Is Marriage for you?

[Kobi]

It still boggles my mind to know in my lifetime, homosexuality has grown from illegal/criminal/mental illness to legal gay marriage.

I remember how thrilled I was when the company I worked for instituted same sex benefits. I remember how dismayed I was when gay marriage became legal in this state and same sex benefits required putting a ring on it.

I am a traditionalist. Marriage and committment ceremonies/civil unions are not the same to me. I can be committed yet have no desire to marry. I suspect the person who actually brings me to the point of entertaining marriage would be one heck of a person.

[clay]

I have been reading all the posts...and some excellent posts....again, TY MsTinker...excellent thread!!!
Just some FYI....I was with my "wife" for 15 years. When she was diagnosed with stage IV terminal cancer in 2007, we made all our legal papers and had them signed, and notarized!
Upon her death in 2009, I took said will and Five Wishes, that were also signed, and notarized, to Probate Court, paid my $10 fee, and was told..."that is all you need to do" and "this is legal".
Imagine MY surprise when 6 months later, I find out quite by accident that the sister had gotten ALL 3 buildings of our belongings...and the life insurance monies. HOW did she do this? My state does NOT recognize same sex relationships and we had never had any sort of ceremony, being bound by our hearts and our committment to one another!
MY POINT: do not depend on POA's, DM POA's, and Wills....I was told, much after the fact, if we had done things in a TRUST..it would have been unbreakable..by anyone. This is what I was told..and I am in NO WAY dispensing any sort of "legal advice" JUST MY own experience! I had no money to hire a lawyer, and things were already done and over with...sooo

[aishah]

Originally Posted by claybaby

I have been reading all the posts...and some excellent posts....again, TY MsTinker...excellent thread!!!
Just some FYI....I was with my "wife" for 15 years. When she was diagnosed with stage IV terminal cancer in 2007, we made all our legal papers and had them signed, and notarized!
Upon her death in 2009, I took said will and Five Wishes, that were also signed, and notarized, to Probate Court, paid my $10 fee, and was told..."that is all you need to do" and "this is legal".
Imagine MY surprise when 6 months later, I find out quite by accident that the sister had gotten ALL 3 buildings of our belongings...and the life insurance monies. HOW did she do this? My state does NOT recognize same sex relationships and we had never had any sort of ceremony, being bound by our hearts and our committment to one another!
MY POINT: do not depend on POA's, DM POA's, and Wills....I was told, much after the fact, if we had done things in a TRUST..it would have been unbreakable..by anyone. This is what I was told..and I am in NO WAY dispensing any sort of "legal advice" JUST MY own experience! I had no money to hire a lawyer, and things were already done and over with...sooo

THANK YOU so much for posting this.

i haven't been through this situation with a partner, but i lost both of my parents when i was 17 and neither had a will. my step-parents took EVERYTHING - the life insurance, my parents' houses, my mother's car, all of my possessions that were still in my parents' houses. even though they had acted as though everything was fine before my parents died and made promises to my parents as to how things would be handled (spending life insurance to pay off the house so my stepdad, my older sister and her kids, and i could live there if needed; splitting the remaining life insurance to help me with medical bills and my sister with getting through school with kids; etc.). my father and i had worked on a troop carrier wwii history project together for years and my stepmother and father's family had no part of it, but they stole all of the materials we worked on together and i had no access to anything (which included a library of priceless primary source material). my extended family on both sides basically abandoned me, my sister, and my nieces right after, and we were destitute. i don't care how much you trust your family or your partners - people go fucking nuts when somebody dies. TAKE CARE OF YOUR LEGAL STUFF. write your will, put it in a trust, whatever you have to do. if you want your assets to go to your partner(s) or kids when you die, do whatever you have to do to make ABSOLUTELY certain that that will happen, because if you don't, those people (including your children) have NO RIGHTS whatsoever. this is one case where trust (even in a decades-long relationship) is NOT enough.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by claybaby

I have been reading all the posts...and some excellent posts....again, TY MsTinker...excellent thread!!!
Just some FYI....I was with my "wife" for 15 years. When she was diagnosed with stage IV terminal cancer in 2007, we made all our legal papers and had them signed, and notarized!
Upon her death in 2009, I took said will and Five Wishes, that were also signed, and notarized, to Probate Court, paid my $10 fee, and was told..."that is all you need to do" and "this is legal".
Imagine MY surprise when 6 months later, I find out quite by accident that the sister had gotten ALL 3 buildings of our belongings...and the life insurance monies. HOW did she do this? My state does NOT recognize same sex relationships and we had never had any sort of ceremony, being bound by our hearts and our committment to one another!
MY POINT: do not depend on POA's, DM POA's, and Wills....I was told, much after the fact, if we had done things in a TRUST..it would have been unbreakable..by anyone. This is what I was told..and I am in NO WAY dispensing any sort of "legal advice" JUST MY own experience! I had no money to hire a lawyer, and things were already done and over with...sooo

I inherited a great deal of liquid assests upon my Mother's death, and even with our "legal" marriage we have a trust. You never know who or what is going to happen.

[Glenn]

[QUOTE=Sassy;523742]



After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup.

^^^^
THIS!

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Sassy

My experiences have been dismal. These days, I take each day as it comes. I wake up and say "this is where I want to be" and that's good enough for now.

Could I, would I, want more from a relationship in the future? Could I, would I, ever again consider promising a lifetime commitment? ...

Perhaps.

After a very long engagement. And a rock solid prenup.

Not very romantic, I know.

Hey, no worries. I feel the exact same way and I haven't even had any marriages and/or combining of finances experiences, good or bad.

[Martina]

i am not responding to the do i believe in love or longterm partnerships for me or others part of this. In fact, i do.

Legal marriage has never appealed to me. If i were straight, i would not marry. i'd have to desperately need the insurance or something like that.

[Glenn]

Sometimes a prenup won't work. Example: Say your partner signs a prenup and legally marries you, and a few years later you open the business of your dreams and over the next several years you work your ASS off to make lots of $$$$...You put your heart and soul into the business. You're making money, you're giving them the best things in life---cars, clothes,,etc., but then they complain your spending too much time working, so they divorce you for aleiniation of affection or something. Folks, even if the business is not in their name, they can still get 50% of it's earnings because a defense attorney may be able to convince a judge they helped you succeed and they can still continue to earn money from their own career! So, if you're a person that works hard and has money, if you get married, you're gonna lose out to some degree if your partner asks for a divorce. You may not lose 50%, but you'll certainly not MAKE any money from a divorce. Now, just because you signed a pre nup, your still trusting your partner not to put up a fight and just walk away. At the very least, they can still take you to court and that costs time and money.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Glenn

Sometimes a prenup won't work. Example: Say your partner signs a prenup and legally marries you, and a few years later you open the business of your dreams and over the next several years you work your ASS off to make lots of $$$$...You put your heart and soul into the business. You're making money, you're giving them the best things in life---cars, clothes,,etc., but then they complain your spending too much time working, so they divorce you for aleiniation of affection or something. Folks, even if the business is not in their name, they can still get 50% of it's earnings because a defense attorney may be able to convince a judge they helped you succeed and they can still continue to earn money from their own career! So, if you're a person that works hard and has money, if you get married, you're gonna lose out to some degree if your partner asks for a divorce. You may not lose 50%, but you'll certainly not MAKE any money from a divorce. Now, just because you signed a pre nup, your still trusting your partner not to put up a fight and just walk away. At the very least, they can still take you to court and that costs time and money.

I guess my thinking about a prenups is being able to protect the assets you have coming into the marriage, rather than protecting the assests you accumulate while in the marriage. This is what I would be most conscious of. Is it really fair for me to get half of the 50K of my partner's inheritance that she came into the relationship with? I say, no. Do we each deserve half of the 50K we have put into one or the other's 401K (retirement plan) while married? Yes, I think so.

[theoddz]

This from the script of one of my most favorite scenes in one of my most absolute favorite movies, "Out of Africa" (1985). I'm posting it because it deals with marriage and hits the nail on the head with how I feel about marriage.

Scene5

Karen: When you go away on safari, are you ever with someone else?

Denys: I'd be with you if I wanted to be with anyone.

Karen: Do you ever get lonely?

Denys: Sometimes.

Karen: Do you ever wonder if I am lonely?

Denys: No, I don't.

Karen: Do you think about me at all?

Denys: Often.

Karen: But not enough to come back.

Denys: I do come back all the time. What is it?

Karen: Nothing. Bror has asked me for a divorce. He found someone that he wants to marry. I just thought we might do that someday.

Denys: Divorce? How... How would a wedding change things?

Karen: I would have someone of my own.

Denys: You wouldn't.

Karen: What's wrong with marriage, anyway?

Denys: Have you ever seen one you admire?

Karen: Yes, I have. Many. Belfields, for one.

Denys: He sent her home for the rains in 1910. Didn't tell her they were over till 1913.

Karen: It's not a joke. People marry. It's not revolutionary. There are animals that mate for life.

Denys: Geese.

Karen: You use the damn animals for your own argument. You won't let me use them for mine.

Denys: I'd mate for life. One day at a time.

Karen: I'd just like someone to ask me once, that's all. Promise me you'll do that, if I promise to say no?

Denys: Just trust you, eh?

Karen: When you go away, you don't always go on safari, do you just want to be away.

Denys: It's not meant to hurt you.

Karen: It does.

Denys: I'm with you because I choose to be with you. I don't want to live someone else's idea of how to live. Don't ask me to do that. I don't want to find out one day that I'm at the end of someone else's life. I'm willing to pay for mine. To be lonely sometimes. To die alone, if I have to. I think that's fair.

Karen: Not quite. You want me to pay for it as well.

Denys: No, you have a choice, and you're not willing to do the same for me. I won't be closer to you and I won't love you more because of a piece of paper.

Good thread.

~Theo~

[tantalizingfemme]

Had I been asked if I believed in marriage twenty years ago, I would have answered with a resounding "hell no"; but I have come to realize that my perception was tainted by my parents bad marriage and very ugly divorce.

Today, my answer is absolutely. For me, it is the deepest level of commitment, trust and love.

Now, to stray off for a minute, I wanted to say something about this:

Originally Posted by Glenn

Sometimes a prenup won't work. Example: Say your partner signs a prenup and legally marries you, and a few years later you open the business of your dreams and over the next several years you work your ASS off to make lots of $$$$...You put your heart and soul into the business. You're making money, you're giving them the best things in life---cars, clothes,,etc., but then they complain your spending too much time working, so they divorce you for aleiniation of affection or something. Folks, even if the business is not in their name, they can still get 50% of it's earnings because a defense attorney may be able to convince a judge they helped you succeed and they can still continue to earn money from their own career! So, if you're a person that works hard and has money, if you get married, you're gonna lose out to some degree if your partner asks for a divorce. You may not lose 50%, but you'll certainly not MAKE any money from a divorce. Now, just because you signed a pre nup, your still trusting your partner not to put up a fight and just walk away. At the very least, they can still take you to court and that costs time and money.

I guess the way I look at this is:

Let's say that Dapperbutch and I were married and hy started a business that helped people learn how to ask the right million questions to clarify whatever they needed clarification for, in life.

So imagine 10 years down the line, when hys business is successful...when hy is world renowned and featured every Wednesday night at 8:00pm on OWN TV for hys expertise on the Art of Questioning, I decide I want a divorce. Is it hys success and hys success only? No. Because 10 years earlier, hy wanted to start a business and he needed support. For hym to start this business, hy needed to rent space to be able to work (because I don't think the marriage would have lasted that long had it been run out of the house) and that costs money, as did all necessary equipment, services, business license, insurance etc...

Now, as we all know, businesses normally do not make money for the first few years, and most of hys time would be at the site. Well, I imagine it would have been my salary that would cover the loan payments, and bills for a while, along with my having to cover hys medical and dental insurance through my agency. Not just the money I paid out, but I would have managed the household, the household bills and any issues that come up at home so that hy was able be able to concentrate on building hys business.

And let's not forget emotional support. I was the one that was there for hym, during the ups and downs all these years, cheerleading him on. (imagine the pom pom smiley here)

Would it seem reasonable that when we divorced that I don't get anything from the business? To me it doesn't. And for most people I know who own their own businesses, the spouse is the person that does everything outside of the business to make it possible for that person to focus on the business and not have to worry about household/child issues. So I believe that I would be entitled to a percentage of the business, as I did help to build it.

I hope that all made sense.

Thanks for letting me ramble.

[Glenn]

Originally Posted by Martina

i am not responding to the do i believe in love or longterm partnerships for me or others part of this. In fact, i do.

Legal marriage has never appealed to me. If i were straight, i would not marry. i'd have to desperately need the insurance or something like that.

You can still protect your assets by going to an attorney and signing a non marital co habitation agreement. It's a legal document that protects both of your assets.

[Nadeest]

Given that I am mostly attracted to women, and my 'preop' status, I could get married if I wished. In fact, given that I am living in Texas, it might be rather fun to walk into the Clerk of the Court's office with my partner and request a marriage licence.
At the moment, however, I don't have a partner, and none seems to be appearing over the horizon, either. Still, if it was with the right person, I think that I'd get married again.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

As some of you know I post a whole lot of updates regarding equal marriage in our country and elsewhere in the world. So if tomorrow you were told that you could get married, would you want to? Why or why not?

All I ask is that you (collective you) be respectful to each other and our points of view.

I'll be back later...

I don't think that I would. I've been married twice already. On one hand, you have the whole 'three times is the charm' mentality. On the other is that a piece of paper doesn't change anything. If it's broke to begin with, marriage won't fix it.

I no longer have the attachment to the fantasy associated with weddings and all the entrapments that come with it. I think, for me, the fantasy was part of the initial attraction to marriage.

In the end, though, it's nothing more than dedication and hard work dressed up in tulle and silk. I can do dedication and hard work without the fancy bits just fine.

[chai~]

Here in Canada, we are free to marry if we choose.

I have never wanted that for myself.

I wasn't one of those girls who made sure my barbies married, never sketched dresses or cut pictures out of magazines for the "big day."

My one and only long term relationship was as married as I cared to be.
Her friends would ask me, "When are you going to change your last name?"
She was butch and I am femme, and all I could think was, "wow, what an assumption! I"M the one expected to change, I'M the one expected to give myself up!!!!"

I was expected to be absorbed by the relationship.

Makes me cringe just to think about it.

This past year I thought I had a change of heart.
Over the summer, in the span of 6 weeks, there were 3 weddings to go to. I thought, "Yeah...maybe I should get married someday."
I seemed to have wedding fever.
The more I thought about it though, I figured out it was only the party I wanted, I wanted to be queen for the day, have all my friends and family in one place to celebrate me and my partner.
I wanted the hoopla and festivities, a romantic beach wedding, barefoot and.....

Then the fever soon passed !

In a way, I guess I'm old fashioned, and I would want to be the perfect do everything super wife and mother.

And I'm afraid that I would eventually allow myself to be absorbed.

I do not believe that 2 people come together to make a whole, or that my partner would be my better/other half.

I do believe that people come together and "accessorize" each other.

Side by side, not one in front of or above the other.

I just want to be happy and balanced, with or without a partner.

Being able to choose as opposed to being told "I am not allowed," is a powerful thing, and I do wish everyone had the choice. Obviously I forgot to mention any accidents that require hospital stays. Being powerless as a person watches their partner slowly wither away and die is devastating.

[VintageFemme]

Absolutely.

[Two-spirit]

Hello,

Im all in favor for anyone to get married..They should get everything hetersexuals gets..plainand simple..

I never saw myself getting married, even thou I have been asked a few times.I would feel trapped,but I do like living with someone and going that route..

yes for equal marriage !!

[Leigh]

I want very much to get married someday

[Hominid]

I can't believe I'm saying this after being financially and emotionally devastated by a divorce 3 years ago, but I loved being married. And dammit, I'd do it again. Always tilting at a windmill ...

[SleepyButch]

I would get married if I found the right person.