7 Rules for Building Safer/Saner Online Communities

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I am someone who wants to see the good in people. I don't want to be guarded and suspicious. I've met some great people from online, but all the lies and lies of omission are quite staggering. I trust very few people these days.

I have met some great people as well. Unfortunately, others are quite unstable and lack boundaries. Yes, lies of omission are staggering! But, I certainly don't see this as specific to B-F sites. Although, I am much more guarded now with befriending people from the site after suffering a couple of traumatic events.

I applaud the admin for drawing attention to safety factors that we all need to pay attention to when relating via the net. Sad, but true.

[1PlayfulFemme]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I have met some great people as well. Unfortunately, others are quite unstable and lack boundaries. Yes, lies of omission are staggering! But, I certainly don't see this as specific to B-F sites. Although, I am much more guarded now with befriending people from the site after suffering a couple of traumatic events.

I applaud the admin for drawing attention to safety factors that we all need to pay attention to when relating via the net. Sad, but true.

I agree completly that it's not just BF sites! There are nutsy people everywhere you look in life, so why not online too? If anything, I think it's easier for them to be convincing online as they have this wonderful screen to hide behind.

I've been fooled. And, I've learned! I've sent money, and I've opened up my home to people who were "about to be kicked out"...who were still here two years later. I blame them and I blame myself. (And we took the "Home for Wayward Lesbians" sign down..that seemed to help!)

I second the voices that say to look into someone before doing anything like sending money/going to see them. Years ago in my most favorite chatroom, we had a bio male who for YEARS convinced us all he was a bio-lesbian-female. It was an LGBT room. There were men galore..but he was straight..and pitiful. The explosions when someone finally decided it was hooky that he was never available to meet up when someone was in his neck of the woods...whew! And it left quite the impression on me...I learned how easy it is for someone to pretend to be something they are not!

I'm thankful that not all the lessons I've learned about people have come at my own expense, and grateful that I tend to be a fast learner!!

Thanks for the thread..and the reminders!!

Lis <~~~~Who can provide BFP references *G*

[Chancie]

I've had creepy experiences with three people who were well known in the online bee eff community.

In one instance, there was a butch who got rough with me on a date, and I did mention what happened whenever another femme seemed to be getting to know her. There were times when it was challenging to PM someone I didn't really 'know'. There was a time or two when the femme was sort of pissed off with me, and I decided it was more important to share what I knew than to worry about my dignity.

In another instance, I mentioned to another femme that there was a butch I was talking to who I thought I might meet up with, and she didn't tell me that she was also talking to the same butch, and that she had asked the butch for money for some bill.

In the third story, there was a femme who was very jealous of me, not that I was ever lovers with her butch, or even interested in her butch, after the initial, Oh, hubba, she's handsome. This femme was physically aggressive with me in public, more than once. No, I am not kidding.

[hpychick]

This is great information!!! Thanks for posting it, and being brave enough to post your stories!

Sunny

[Andrew, Jr.]

Rosie & I had a horrible experience when someone showed up 2 years ago at our front door, no phone call, no email, no notice, no nothing. We had just pulled in our space to park our car. We were unloading the car from our vacation at the beach with friends. We weren't in the house 5 minutes when the doorbell rang. I had no clue who it was, nor did Rosie. But we opened the door. After talking briefly I was told who it was. This person called not only the Sheriff's office, but the state police department in trying to locate our home.

Rosie and I opened our home to this person for 3 days. It was not a good situation at all. The next thing I had to do was kick this person out because of what was posted online about us, and about her/his own personal issues.

We are very private and simple people. We have lent people money in the past, and never expected for it to be returned. Thank God for that because it never was repaid. We hired people to do things for me around the house that I couldn't do because I felt and still do feel it is the right thing to do, but they never showed up.

I believe in people, and until you know me, don't judge. It was like when someone who Rosie and I knew in real time called her "ugly and fat" to her face and then to mine. Oh yes. So, words hurt no matter if verbal or in print.

I also received a hate email from Spamex. It is a company that you buy a new email addy so your real email addy id is hidden. It was really a hatefilled letter to me and Rosie about being frauds, con-artists, and who I was/wasn't. It was very strange in all honesty because it was full of threats.

Next was on Secondlife - Backdoor. I won't even comment on what was said about me there. Most everyone knows. Everything online once is there for life.

Rosie and I have been to 2 bashes in the past, and several parties. However, we are very cautious now. We are older, and more wiser. I used to take everyone at their word. I am old school. I believed a handshake was all that was needed. Now everything needs to be in writing by a lawyer. Sad.

So if anyone who see's Rosie and I at Little Rock, we both are fat and quite happy. Be sure to introduce yourself to us. I may not remember you the next day, but keep telling me your name. I will get it! Please remember I had a major heart attack and lost that part of my short term memory.

[Daywalker]

Being Fat behind the keyboard.


If I may, I'm a 205 pound Butch ass Hippy.


If anyone said that kind of shit to my face or to the Mrs. Day, who
is a woman of substance and size...they would have one
hell of a conversation on their hands.


My mind is Fat with Wit, and I ain't afraid to use it.


The fact that I can kick a lottta ass is not relative.



Meeting folks in real time from this Community
has been enriching in more ways than my Fat mind can express.


I like what Juney said:

Originally Posted by That Damn Juney Poodle Head

Relatively speaking, this is a small community that's been around for a LONG time (over a decade for a lot of us). We know each other, or we know people who know people.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I am a believer in peace vs. violence. I tried to talk to the so-called person, but a 3rd party got involved without being invited. Rosie and I were not favorites of the webmasters from the other site. So of course we were in the "wrong" - my big fat ass. I am a strong believer in Karma, the Golden Rule, and in the rules of the universe...it will come back to bite them in the ass and it sure has, sadly.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Chancie

<snip> There was a time or two when the femme was sort of pissed off with me, and I decided it was more important to share what I knew than to worry about my dignity.

I've yet to find the "warning" others thing to be of any value. Ultimately when it comes to getting ass, people don't listen. I figure everyone gets to find out for themselves. And you can bet they will.

Given the number of "false warnings" it's little surprise people don't listen. The propensity for calling wolf has undermined overall reliability.

Fantastic message delivered in this thread, thank you Medusa.

[Isadora]

I am a survivor of on line emotional, financial and social abuse... and I have seen it all...(By social abuse I mean on-line, in chat, called names, made fun of, sending private photos to others, made up stories about, etc.)

The hardest is when betrayed by long time on-line/off-line "friends and mentors".

Although money is hurtful when gone, the emotional damage done to people by lies, betrayal, manipulation, etc., I think, harms more. At least it did me. I no longer hang on line like I used to, I don't trust new people (and some older ones), my heart was damaged too deeply. I hope no one has to deal with the people who suck your life dry while going on with theirs like they were free from responsibility, because they don't go away, they just find someone else to pray upon.

Good points, Medusa.

[Apocalipstic]

I have never sent money to anyone I met on line, but have given it in person and never expected it back...I try never to lend money I can't afford to lose...and the financial mistakes I have made have been in person (but no less painful).

What got me was when two different times, 2 different people made up personas to talk to me. It really creeped me out and I struggled with my stupidity for quite some time. I might not have fallen for it if a real time friend had not "vouched" for the person. Yes, there are con-artists and soul suckers out there. Be careful!.

I am so glad to see people speaking out. I wish someone had all those years ago when I was naive and oh so vulnerable.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by June

Apoc -- I think the "made up personas" part is particularly ugly.

Medusa set the forums so people can't just come in and join anymore, we look at every single person that signs up, checking their email and IP addresses. If they say they are from one place, but their IP shows up as another it raises red flags for us.

This has also helped us ward of most (not all) Spammers.

Some people are so damaged and fucked up that they make a game out of trying to see if they can get in using different names and IP addresses. I feel kinda sorry for them. 1) They lost their community and 2) They can't seem to move on.

----------------------------------
About the warning thing. I hope Medusa comes in and speaks to this further, but while warning your exes potential new lover might not always have the effect you hope for, letting the Admins and Mods know that someone has exhibited bad behavior can be helpful. We keep information on file both in our heads and in our private forum. One person saying someone was abusive, manipulative or crooked might not have much weight, but if several different people who don't know each other well or at all are saying the same thing, we most certainly pay attention to that.

I completely agree about exes, and I think it is important to remember that just because I might not have gotten along with someone, they might be perfectly suited for someone else and it can seem (be) petty to dis our exes to new potential partners, even if we might have concerns. I like the idea of letting the mods know, and stepping back.

I am very happy to see that steps have been taken to cut back on the multiple screen names. This scenario has not only happened to me, but to several of my friends, and few things suck as much as telling a buddy that his/her new love does not even exist. I know its a lot more work for you guys, but I so appreciate the extra effort to keep us safe mentally and physically.

I know there are those of us who would never get sucked into a con and who think everyone should take care of themselves....but it is easier than one might think to get sucked in. People can keep up lies for YEARS.

Please know your efforts are appreciated.

[Medusa]

June speaks the truth!

We did lock down our membership registration for the time being (and probably permanently) because we had a couple of banned members who think they are clever by pretending to be other people, creating fake personas so they can further victimize people on this site, etc.
And I'm not having it.

I will not, however, build a giant wall around this website so that it is so cumbersome for new people to join that it's a turnoff just because a few fucked-up individuals have nothing better to do with their lives than troll and create drama. I think it's important to maintain a welcome space with room for us to "check ID's at the door" in the way of verifying IP addresses, locations, and whether or not someone is trying to use a proxy service.
We owe that to ourselves and to this space and even though it takes us a little extra time to check each person, it's worth it.

I will expound on what June talked about with information about people who are abusive/scammers/con artists, etc.

YES, we want to know. NO, we can't always do something about it.

If you have personal experience with someone being physically abusive, stealing money, using drugs, killing kitties, selling their children, etc., we would appreciate it if you would let us know about it either by pm'ing myself or any of the Moderators or dropping me an email.

We may not always be able to *do* something about that person but, as June said, it helps us see a bigger picture, especially if multiple people come to us and say, "So and So said they were going to set my house on fire."

We have a private forum for the Moderators where we discuss every issue on ths site. We share information about themes in the forums, people who are having a hard time, or people who have made threats so that we are all in the loop about what is going on. Sometimes we might say to one another, "Hey, so and so's Father just passed away so they might be feeling sad" or "Jim and Bob just broke up so we might need to watch their posts in case they dig at one another."

This is often how we catch things before they are even reported; because we are all very connected to these forums and the people in them.

I also want to stress that as much as we listen to people telling us that someone is abusive, a crook, etc., we also pay attention to the people who are making accusations.
If "Bertha Mae" says that someone was abusive to them every single time she gets out of a relationship, we are going to notice that.
If "Elvis Aaron" says he has a terminal illness and has 3 months to live but is still around 6 years later, we are going to notice that.
If "June" suddenly starts posting photos of naked women and calling people "cuntbuckets", we are going to think she has either lost her damn mind or that someone has broken into her account.

None of these examples are absolute, we recognize that every situation has it's details and are willing to examine them all differently.

My personal commitment to this site is that I will do what I can for as long as I can to help maintain a sane space. I feel that all of our Moderators and volunteers feel exactly the same way.
There will be people who will try our patience, test us, make threats, etc. To that I say that I have never been one to kowtow to a bully, a sycophant, or a fucked up sociopath.

The best way to get my negative attention is to fuck with this space and the people in it, whether by using this site as a toy for your fucked up issues or playing chess with the hearts and minds of the people who come here for positive reasons.
I don't care how you play out your fucked up drama, just don't do it here.

Sorry for my little tangent here but want to make it super clear to folks, this space will exist for a very long time and the truth is that it will exist with or without every single one of us.

Our choice is to be a productive member of this community or to play tiddlywinks with ourselves in crazyland without the benefit of the wonderful people who come here.

[Rope]

As my grandmother always said, 'Don't lend more money than you're willing to lose'. That doesn't make you feel any better when the money is gone, but at least you've "warned" yourself if nothing else.

We'd all like to be the trusting and generous people we wish others to be with us, but life happens and occasionally teaches us that our good will can be abused.

Along with the relationship stuff--we so often dismiss what is obvious because the other stuff seems so right and hot. The red flags won't get any redder. Again, it's so hard to see those red flags or not want to hide them when everything else seems so right. We can feel really foolish when things go really badly and not want to share that experience--hoodwinked, stolen from, abused.

I am a very loyal and generous person by nature---and expect the same in return. I don't mean tit for tat, or match me financially but a measure of same. It's very hard for me to trust people once I've been lied to or experienced pettiness. I have gotten past it with people, giving them the chance or benefit of the doubt even more than once. But I am unwilling to do all the work in a relationship--the proof is in the pudding, if you want to repair what was broken, then it takes two to do the repair. I am no longer willing to be in the role of 'fixer' or initiate these repairs.

I was accused on another site by a femme I dated three times of rape. Wow, was that ever a shock. More shocking to her was that she'd sworn butches to secrecy but since they were buddies to varying degrees of mine and that was a significant accusation--they told me. I called her on it, but of course she ignored my emails but the story did stop being told.

Additionally I've been accused of breaking people up, or advising them to break up--of course the reality is that I am NOT in the relationship and when people come to me as a pal, I am quick to say, 'ARE YOU SURE THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO?' If a relationship is so fragile that a talk with me breaks it up, wow,,,how powerful am I. I am more than happy to get people to slow it down as the first course of action: make a list of pros/cons, ask them if counseling won't help, ETC AND AD NAUSEUM.

But none of us can control mean spirited or just plain ol' gossip. I would hope that people are grown ups and would come to a person directly about their issues, but more likely they'd rather spin the tale that suits them or spread half information.

It's sad when new people to our community get taken for a ride, sadder still that we have to be vigilant and warn people about online nuttiness. That's why I tell people, meet sooner rather than later instead of date online for 6 months and think you have a true picture of the person.

[Martina]

There's something about informal kinds of sanctions like the ones you are talking about that make me nervous. They are as old as humanity, but i don't know. Maybe they are guaranteed to be more fair in face-to-face encounters.

i, for one, have not told anyone on this site about my experience except my closest real time friend who comes here. The person who did these things to me did tell at least one other person because that person asked me about it. So i don't know. i was willing to talk to the police about it, but i wouldn't pm the admins here. Something about it feels strange.

i will be so glad when i my feelings about this are done. Soon, i suppose. It's been nearly six months.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Chancie

*snip*There were times when it was challenging to PM someone I didn't really 'know'. There was a time or two when the femme was sort of pissed off with me, and I decided it was more important to share what I knew than to worry about my dignity. *snip*

You are pretty damn fly...

----------------
In the interest of not making another post:

I think that for me I wouldn't have been taken advantage of if I had not been in the emotional space that I was personally in at the time. I wonder if this rings true for others, as well?

[Bard]

Add me to the taken for a ride folks more of the emotional type but she got me good as quite a few of you know and I thank god for all the good kind wonderful support from folks here.. and I also remember the support when I was in that bad accident people I have never met before came to see me in the hospital.. AS a law enforcement officer I am a cynic don't trust and I am way to protective. To the Amazing folks that made this safe place for those that keep it that way I thank you . yes I have been moderated a couple of times when I was a BAD BOI but it was done with respect... predators are out there yes but I just hope that we don't close our hearts

[Nat]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

You are pretty damn fly...

----------------
In the interest of not making another post:

I think that for me I wouldn't have been taken advantage of if I had not been in the emotional space that I was personally in at the time. I wonder if this rings true for others, as well?

There was a How Stuff Works podcast on cults where they said basically the most common factor among cult members is that they encountered the cult during a traumatic time in their lives like a divorce or death in the family. I think there's a similar parallel for other not-so-great situations - though anybody with an open, generous or trusting nature can run into that sort of trouble.

For many people it may just be a case of:

"Being that I flow in grief, the smallest twine may lead me."

-Leanato, Much Ado About Nothing

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

You are pretty damn fly...

----------------
In the interest of not making another post:

I think that for me I wouldn't have been taken advantage of if I had not been in the emotional space that I was personally in at the time. I wonder if this rings true for others, as well?

Chancie IS fly

I do think the last part rings true more often than we'd like to admit. I think that our emotional states can sometimes blind us to the red flags - and even more, there are folks out there who are super skilled at picking up on that wounded energy.

People who are going through breakups, health issues, major family crisis, etc. need to be especially careful about seeking out comfort with people who may see that as an opportunity to fuck them over.

I'm so thankful knowing that the people out there with good intentions far outweigh those folks with ugly hearts. <3

[DomnNC]

Here's a few links that I found to be quite useful in the event of cyberstalking, how to stay safe online, how to gather info to pursue legal action if you are harassed, cyberstalked and if it carries over into offline how to handle that as well. The Stay Safe Online site has tools to check your pc for free to make sure it's secure and you aren't a prime candidate for identity theft due to hacking. Heck you can check it all out on the websites, they are well worth reading just for the knowledge.

Stay Safe Online
http://www.staysafeonline.org/

Cyber 911 Emergency
http://www.wiredsafety.org/cyberstal...ent/index.html

The National Center For Victims Of Crime
http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?d...cumentID=32458

Stalking Laws by State (this is up to date as of Jan/2010, but could be current for your state, you'll just have to click the link to see or simply google "YourState Stalking Law" or "YourState Cyberstalking Law")
http://www.ncvc.org/src/main.aspx?db...te_Statutes117

If someone is sending you threatening emails or obscene material/pics be sure to save them, tons of info about the sender can be garnered by email headers that have info embedded that the typical user never sees or doesn't know how to look for it.

Have fun and be safe all.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by Medusa

People who are going through breakups, health issues, major family crisis, etc. need to be especially careful about seeking out comfort with people who may see that as an opportunity to fuck them over.

i know this sounds heartless, but sometimes people going through those kinds of crises are the ones who hurt others. i think it explains a lot of behavior that would otherwise be inexcusable. They are sick or in pain or . . . .

It's the only way i understood what happened. i just had to put it down to that. One of the problems with these situations is how much they make you judge your own ability to tell if people are OK or not. i think there usually are red flags. But i don't just want to befriend people who don't need friends, people who look or seem perfect. Who is anyway?

It's also sad that, if you are badly burned, you almost stereotype. i mean the next time you encounter a person with characteristics similar to those of the person who harmed you, it's going to make you pause. It's crazy. i am thinking of things like age, disability status, mental health issues, even interests. i think that sort of thing happens when you are badly burned. And it's sad. It makes you so much less open.