Poly Relationships

[sharkchomp]

People are complex plain and simple. Having one relationship is complicated, even removing the endorphins, it takes work, honest communication, etc. Hell, friendships take work too! When you're trying to have two relationships the complexities are doubled. The sorrows can be doubled - but also the joy can be doubled too.

I'm not saying poly relationships are bad but it takes alot of work to balance yourself within the relationships. It's not always easy or fun. I think it takes a clear minded, open, honest person to do it. And selfishness has no place in poly.

~~~shark~~~~~~~

[Linus]

Originally Posted by violaine

hi linus

i am going to respond to the sentences below in separate lines, please.


When we think of our lives we love a lot of people for a variety of reasons (e.g., siblings, friends, parents, etc).

yes, i do believe that for people with siblings/parents/friends- a variety of love can exist.



We do not deny our love for them because we decide who should only love one friend or one parent or one sibling, etc.

again, yes- but the type of relationship i would know with a parent/sibling may differ quite a lot dynamics-wise from how i relate to friends, or a person with whom i want to be close to sexually even more so than family or friendships. friendships may turn into relationships or just remain on a platonic level.

True but you do not love one sibling only and not the other, do you? It is a different love than what you have for friends, lovers etc. But it is still love, no?

So why do we limit our deeper loves for only one? (work/busy schedule and other stuff aside).

i can only write that i would not consciously set out to place how much love exists for my relationships family/friends/partner. however, i do have a comment about "unconditional love" - in general, and as i read and relate them to your "5" below.

i have set boundaries in my relationships- family/friends/partner. not exactly unconditonal if there are lines drawn.

thinking about a poly relationship involving clear-cut conversations [defined]and mutual decision-making, et c. how do these go hand in hand with a limitless love [involving more than two people at a time] ?

i understand respect, fairness, communication- listening/talking, honesty, and so on. the term "unconditonal love" throws me because it seems [to me] there's an implication of purity/without limits/perfection/unquestionable- love.


best,
belle

My apologies. Unconditional love wasn't the right term I was thinking of. Unlimited love, perhaps? The idea that love isn't kept to one person is what I was poorly attempting to get at. Boundaries certainly are needed (e.g., will not accept abuse). But limiting ourselves to just one person to get more than platonic love can be limiting.

Does this mean everyone should do it? No. I don't believe we're all hardwired for this nor do we all experience the same history to be able to do this. But it is there for those who do feel it can be part of their lives.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Andrew, Jr.

Hi Linus,

I think most people are capable to love many people, if they allow themself. It is a matter of being open, free from what society norms are, and enjoying yourself with many. For some, the concept is do-able. However, in reality they can't for whatever reason (boundaries of safety, religious beliefs, kids, and so on). Sometimes one partner can handle it, and then when the reality comes into play, they decide that it is something that they cannot support or participate in. No matter how much talking is done, good and bad, it still kills it.

I agree, if you mention this to most people, you get looked at like you have 3 heads. Oy.

Have you watched the series "Big Love"? Good show.

Haven't seen the show yet but have heard of it.

And yes, some people are capable if they allow themselves. One of the biggest things that has to happen first, IMO, is a love of self before loving others.

Originally Posted by IrishGrrl

I've always wondered if being poly would be for me. I've done it, so I dont know for sure. For me, I think yes, initially I would be jealous of the other person recieving attention from my lover/partner. I think that as long as I recieved enough indivdual attention, I would get over that pretty easily. I know I wouldnt have an issue with my partner/lover having sex with someone else. I dont not equate sex with love, so once I got over the initial start of having this happen, since it's so new and different for me personally, I'd be ok. The tricky thing about poly for me..and I think if you ask the general population..alot would agree..that it's not just the act of your lover having sex with someone else..it's the idea that they may leave YOU for THEM eventually. That other person in your mind may be recieving special attention you are not. For me, that's where I get stuck..but my rational mind tells me, that you run that risk in ANY relationship..perhaps more in a monogomous one no? I dont believe humans are made to be monogomous creatures..we just arent ..it's not natural.I believe we CAN..and DO out of choice..or preference, but biologically, I think we are not meant to.

Just my personal thoughts.

edited to add..
My love is VERY conditional. You treat me like shit..or my children like shit..you're gone. Love be damned.

Very true that there could open up the possibility of one leaving the other for their 2nd partner but I've actually heard something else happens. The relationship with the original partner strengths because of trust, a newness of life, etc.

Originally Posted by sharkchomp

People are complex plain and simple. Having one relationship is complicated, even removing the endorphins, it takes work, honest communication, etc. Hell, friendships take work too! When you're trying to have two relationships the complexities are doubled. The sorrows can be doubled - but also the joy can be doubled too.

I'm not saying poly relationships are bad but it takes alot of work to balance yourself within the relationships. It's not always easy or fun. I think it takes a clear minded, open, honest person to do it. And selfishness has no place in poly.

~~~shark~~~~~~~

Very much true. But we manage with many friends in lives, why not loves?


Thank you everyone for your comments. I'm hoping that more poly-interested people do join this conversation as well.

[casey35]

I have to admit i have flirted with poly and it seems to work well for those who can share. As I get older I want to find an equal balance and if that can happen with more then one that be nice and if not so be it.

[WickedFemme]

subscribing

[Dragonfly]

I was out (partially since I was not out to all my family) since I was 17, Id'ing as a bisexual while I was figuring it all out. I was in committed and open relationships from high school until 2006. thats 20 years or so. I would not have a secondary relationship with someone if my primary partner was not ok with it, but my two husbands were both supportive of my exploring my feelings for women. It began as a third party joining in, But from age 19 on, I did not have sexual intimacy with both of my partners at the same time. I was developing emotional ties that were new and I was leaning towards my female relationships. The relationships I developed with my girlfriends were completely separate from my marriage.

I didn't always have the type of partner to have full trust and honesty. My first husband was a nightmare long story. I would not consider a poly relationship with just anyone. I would be more selective and careful before becoming involved in one again because of knowing the reality of both sides. I have had monogamy that was completely fulfilling but I am not opposed or closed to the option of a poly relationship because of that. And vice versa.

My last relationship was off and on, but when 'on' we were monogamous as she claimed was her preference... turned out she would see other people secretly while she would have me committed to only her. I can say having that total trust and open honesty bond from my last poly relationship sounded durn good about the time I learned that lesson.... so put more simply, I gage that choice, poly or monogamy based SOLEY on the individual/s I am involved with.... and it is a process of developing that trust, I dont just jump right in from day one with that decision.

[femmebaker]

It's nice to see a (semi) active poly thread. My husband and I are exploring that right now.

I definitely think communication is key, along with a willingness to deal with the inevitable uncomfortable feelings of jealousy. At least on a theoretical level, the idea of more love, more intimacy, more sex is very appealing.

What I'm encountering, however, is a general lack of butches who are interested in it. Are there really butches out there who would date a happily married femme?

[Linus]

Originally Posted by femmebaker

It's nice to see a (semi) active poly thread. My husband and I are exploring that right now.

I definitely think communication is key, along with a willingness to deal with the inevitable uncomfortable feelings of jealousy. At least on a theoretical level, the idea of more love, more intimacy, more sex is very appealing.

What I'm encountering, however, is a general lack of butches who are interested in it. Are there really butches out there who would date a happily married femme?

As with any relationship, it's a matter of finding the right person. I know of a few out there who would probably be ok with it depending upon how their relationship would be with your husband, etc. So I do think it's a matter of patience and just looking..

[femmebaker]

Originally Posted by Linus

As with any relationship, it's a matter of finding the right person. I know of a few out there who would probably be ok with it depending upon how their relationship would be with your husband, etc. So I do think it's a matter of patience and just looking..

Yes, the proverbial needle in the haystack. So, how about you, Linus? Are you practicing poly or do you remain in the curios onlooker category? What would your criteria be if you were to be someone's "second" relationship? (I hate the term "secondary.") Would you want to be buddies or remain respectably detached from the husband? Do you have theories/best practices?

[LieslKate]

"Big Love" is related to poly relationships inasmuch as "The L Word" was to real life for Lesbians... a Hollywood farce.

I would be interested to know a couple of things from anyone currently or previously involved in a poly relationship:

1. the duration of the relationship in years

2. the makeup of the relationship ie: Butch/Trans to Femme or Boi ratio

3. What lead to the demise of the relationship (if it has ended)

4. Was it a real time/life either living together communally or separate or an online relationship.

It's been my experience both personal and from others that for the most part they are relatively short-termed (under 5 year duration) and more commonly either Leather or BDSM relationship based.

Thanks...

[Linus]

Originally Posted by femmebaker

Yes, the proverbial needle in the haystack. So, how about you, Linus? Are you practicing poly or do you remain in the curios onlooker category? What would your criteria be if you were to be someone's "second" relationship? (I hate the term "secondary.") Would you want to be buddies or remain respectably detached from the husband? Do you have theories/best practices?

Hrm.. I wouldn't say that I'm entirely naive but neither am I experienced a few times around the block. I think right now opportunity hasn't fully presented itself and exhaustion from work has taken priority of late. That said, my ideal as it were -- if I was secondary (and I do agree in that I dislike that term) -- would be to be possible buddies with the husband/other partner. Although I admit that K and I would prefer to find a couple that we could be attached to.

There isn't -- in my book -- a best practise or theory, other than it's similar to other relationships. What works for you and yours may not work for me and mine. I've tried detached before and it worked ok but if I could be buddies then there could be an opportunity to him/hy/her and myself to hang out and do things (I need that occassional cigar buddy or sports buddy).

I suppose a lot of this is because I want to ensure open communication by all parties and don't want anyone to be without love, whether from me or others in the partnership.

It's been my experience both personal and from others that for the most part they are relatively short-termed (under 5 year duration) and more commonly either Leather or BDSM relationship based.

Interesting. My experience has been different. I've seen long relationships with vanilla people (A hetero friend of mine has been going on for over 10 years now and an FTM buddy of mine has had one for well over 6 years) as much as others (leather/BDSM/<insert other sexual choice>). Poly, to me, isn't about the sex but rather about the intimate bonding with others (they may or may not tickle my sexual "pickle").

[femmebaker]

Linus,

Thank you for your thoughts. I, too, am attached to the idea of everyone getting along as friends at the very least. The notion of two couples coming together for friendship, affection, love, sex in a variety of combination is hugely appealing. It seems incredibly unlikely most of the time, but appealing all the same. It also would seem that if everyone know and likes one another (if not "loves"), there would be less potential for undermining and jealousy issues to surface. It's nice to dream...

[Lady_Wu]

I am in a polyandrous (two masculine people) marriage. This took us a long time to work out. Both "men" -one a FtM, the other a Karma male, hard to explain but not male in body-are intensely possessive. We were involved in a long term relationship for 4 years. Then X disappeared, leaving J and me bewildered and grieving. When he reappeared, we talked about what we wanted in life. They decided together that what each wanted was MY happiness. Since I loved and had loved both of them for a long time, they got together, drew up a Taoist/Confucian marriage contract and presented it to me. When I read it, I was thrilled. It was what I had wanted for all of my life. I in essence belong to each of them. The only thing I can do the would invalidate the marriage (witnessed and contracted by a Zen Priest) will be to go outside the marriage to another person. I am extremely happy. I am Empress of the household. They are supportive of each other and good friends. We live together in a small house. I would say that communication, respect for each other, clear boundaries, kindness, and love (in this case love for me) are paramount in keeping this marriage working. We are all happy with our decision and expect to be together for the rest of our lives. X is the eldest of us but in the best health; J is in his mid-fifties, and I am in my late 40s. They are the reason I remain in WV. I love both so dearly that I think that I would, and almost have, grieve to death without each of them. We have been together for almost 6 years now. This is rather unusual in that it is a polyandrous (2"men") rather than a polygamous (2 or more women) marriage. I feel extremely lucky in having the love of two such extraordinary "men". I am loved, cherished, and protected. Each would gladly die for me, and I for them. This is our life.
Lady_Wu, Kikkion to the Yellow Emperor and to the Lin.

[JustAGirl]

Wow, LadyWu! As a lover of man in general, my first though in mind (as I ingest and contemplate this thread) is how "the norm" view poly relationships i.e. it's almost every man's dream to have 2 girls sexually accessible...

I just wonder (if in poly relationships) if things turn territorial in other poly relationships. For instance, I can't sleep/fuck there if I know my lover has been in the bed with another. :/ Too close to "home" baby.

The older I get the more I can separate love and sex...

[casey35]

In 6 days i will be welcoming my new lover in to our house( my partner and I). This will be a totally new experience for us, figuring out the boundries of each and making sure no feelings are hurt. I have talk to several people on this situation and how they dealt with things . So hoping with all my heart we have a very loving home.

[PearlsNLace]

Paphigleo and I went into our relationship together knowing it will not allways be a monogomous one. We both are hoping to find a butch who is into both butches and femmes, well, who would be into both of US, at some point. But maybe it wont work that way, in a neat little triad. Perhaps there will come a time where Paphigleo will have a boi, and that individual will NOT be "into" me, or I them. I think what we are creating now, together, is solid. And it needs to be. For that kind of open honesty takes some serious work internally. It takes trust in ourselves as well as each other. I love what we have now, I think it is what makes us strong enough to add all that comes with having another intimate person in our lives.

[lipstixgal]

I don't see myself in a poly relationship its harder enough to be in one relationship alone,, let alone another person in the mix!!

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Lady_Wu

I am in a polyandrous (two masculine people) marriage. This took us a long time to work out. Both "men" -one a FtM, the other a Karma male, hard to explain but not male in body-are intensely possessive. We were involved in a long term relationship for 4 years. Then X disappeared, leaving J and me bewildered and grieving. When he reappeared, we talked about what we wanted in life. They decided together that what each wanted was MY happiness. Since I loved and had loved both of them for a long time, they got together, drew up a Taoist/Confucian marriage contract and presented it to me. When I read it, I was thrilled. It was what I had wanted for all of my life. I in essence belong to each of them. The only thing I can do the would invalidate the marriage (witnessed and contracted by a Zen Priest) will be to go outside the marriage to another person. I am extremely happy. I am Empress of the household. They are supportive of each other and good friends. We live together in a small house. I would say that communication, respect for each other, clear boundaries, kindness, and love (in this case love for me) are paramount in keeping this marriage working. We are all happy with our decision and expect to be together for the rest of our lives. X is the eldest of us but in the best health; J is in his mid-fifties, and I am in my late 40s. They are the reason I remain in WV. I love both so dearly that I think that I would, and almost have, grieve to death without each of them. We have been together for almost 6 years now. This is rather unusual in that it is a polyandrous (2"men") rather than a polygamous (2 or more women) marriage. I feel extremely lucky in having the love of two such extraordinary "men". I am loved, cherished, and protected. Each would gladly die for me, and I for them. This is our life.
Lady_Wu, Kikkion to the Yellow Emperor and to the Lin.

Lady Wu, I do apologize for not seeing this earlier.

Sounds absolutely wonderful. Congratulations on all that hard work. It sounds like it is paying off.

Originally Posted by casey35

In 6 days i will be welcoming my new lover in to our house( my partner and I). This will be a totally new experience for us, figuring out the boundries of each and making sure no feelings are hurt. I have talk to several people on this situation and how they dealt with things . So hoping with all my heart we have a very loving home.

You must be very excited about this whole process.

Originally Posted by PearlsNLace

Paphigleo and I went into our relationship together knowing it will not allways be a monogomous one. We both are hoping to find a butch who is into both butches and femmes, well, who would be into both of US, at some point. But maybe it wont work that way, in a neat little triad. Perhaps there will come a time where Paphigleo will have a boi, and that individual will NOT be "into" me, or I them. I think what we are creating now, together, is solid. And it needs to be. For that kind of open honesty takes some serious work internally. It takes trust in ourselves as well as each other. I love what we have now, I think it is what makes us strong enough to add all that comes with having another intimate person in our lives.

And that is one of the important things: ensuring that what exists is strong and stable before adding more to the relationship.

Originally Posted by lipstixgal

I don't see myself in a poly relationship its harder enough to be in one relationship alone,, let alone another person in the mix!!

Heh.. Ya. As I've said, this isn't something that is for everyone.

[Dragonfly]

Originally Posted by femmebaker

It's nice to see a (semi) active poly thread. My husband and I are exploring that right now.

I definitely think communication is key, along with a willingness to deal with the inevitable uncomfortable feelings of jealousy. At least on a theoretical level, the idea of more love, more intimacy, more sex is very appealing.

What I'm encountering, however, is a general lack of butches who are interested in it. Are there really butches out there who would date a happily married femme?

Just wanted to add my voice here and say that being upfront and honest is the only way you will find what you are looking for. In my opinion there are more than most realize and this post of yours makes you more appealing imho because you are being real and open and sad to say that is a rare thing in the world. I would be willing to give my heart to someone who was happily married if said person was the right one it would all work out. What's meant to be will be w true committment and selfless love. So I think anyway.

[Bad Bad Boi]

Hey all,

Have really enjoyed this discussion and am subscribing to the thread.

I am new to the idea of poly possibilities in my own life.

I have known they exist but never had any idea how they could possibly work.

But recently I have had to come to grips with the fact that I love a woman in CA - who we only get to see each other 2 - 3 times a year. I thought at first that as I dated others, my feelings for her would dim... but Noooo.

So now I am considering the possibility of finding an East Coast relationship in which jealosy isn't the primary ingredient... allowing me to maintain a relationship with my CA love.

I do understand that it is more than possible to love and care about more than one person at the same time.

So thanks for starting this thread and the great discussion that is found here.

Peace and Blessings,

David