Breeder and other words we use to hurt our own.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

I am sorry for causing any distress, I did not in any way mean to be suggesting that those words were usually endearments. Simply that they could be...

Thanks Ms. Merrick for clearing it up. I think it had more to do with reading it wrong than anything else. I'm glad you were willing to walk me through it.

[TenderKnight]

Interesting thread..

Superfemme, thanks for starting it.. Once again, the people on this site have gotten me thinking about how I go through life and the words that I use and how I use them.

I work in Hillcrest, the *gay* area of San Diego. I work in a retail store that has adult toys and DVD's as well as clothing. Mostly clothing, honestly.. In any case, we cater to mainly gay males. I have used words to describe the straight college kids that look at the dildos and giggle, or the guys that come in on thier cells saying, "Yeah, dude, i just walked into the gay shop". I refer to some of them as breeders to my other co-workers.. Is this right? No.. I never even thought it was hurtful. Reading this thread has changed my views on the term and I won't be using it, or will at least correct myself when I do use it.

We also refer to some of the more.. Flamboyant.. gay men as Queens. Keep in mind, over half the staff are gay men or at least bi.. But we use it in a derogatory way, usually for the guys that come in, ask for all the size 14 heels we have, try them on, act like.. well, Queens.. and then don't buy anything.

I'll be honest, we tend to call people a lot of things.. lmao.

Now I have to sit back and ask.. why?

My thought is that for *me*, it is out of anger and frustration. I have to get at them some way and I can't be rude to thier faces, so it gets the frustration out..

Unprofessional? Hell yes.. Very human? Also, yes.

Someone mentioned the fact that human nature is human nature, and sadly, part of that nature is making one feel better about ones' self by putting another person or a group of people down. I feel angry and belittled with straight boy comes in and finds it funny to see the gay store, like we're a friggin' zoo.. I feel frustrated and belittled when a customer takes 30 to 40 minutes of my time, me climbing ladders and getting shoes and they can't even make eye contact with me and treat me like a servant? Fuck yeah that pisses me off and I may refer to them as a fucking queen.

Words do have power. They can be weapons, or they can be tools for healing.. It's all about how we use them.

Just my .2 on the "shim" "he/she" thing.. *sighs* I am not a fan. I will admit when i was growing up and in the closet, i threw that word around with my then friends and buddies. I was trying to be a part of the straight guy world, and amazingly, there was a lot of name calling involved.. lol Now? I still hear the term, mostly from older lesbians, to be truthful.. *shrugs* I try to explain about transgender and all the personal story stuff, and sometimes it takes, sometimes it doesn't.. But i chalk that one up to ignorance or just plain ass hat behavior (ass hat, now that's a word I'm going to start throwing around more..).

That is how I've used words to hurt others.. In truth, it only hurts and belittles me to use them and to have that negitive energy so near to my heart.. Something that I'm working on, daily.

Thanks again for the thread and to everyone that posted.

-Tony

[UofMfan]

Originally Posted by Hudson

How about you don't moderate the thread?

MODERATING:

I just did. I hope everyone heeds my warning.

[MsMerrick]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I am very aware that a word like "Shim" that may be hurtful to me might not be hurtful to joe schmoe.

What to do when I hit the brick wall of a person who really doesn't care that it's hurtful? I mean there is no rule that it is anyone's responsibility to give a rats ass that a word may cause pain to others.

Am I naive in my hope that others will care?

I hope you aren't, I know I hope the same thing..!
I do limit my attempts to educate, to those that use words with.. carelessness, not .. with clear nasty intent.
I agree, its very painful, that so many don't care... I wish I had a penny, even in this economy, for every time someone has told me I am too "PC", because I try and explain that how we use..words has power..and that I am offended by someones use of a word..

[betenoire]

I've actually only heard the words "shim" or "s-he" used in one place (maybe I'm super sheltered?). It was here:



And I really do still feel that the Lunachicks meant no harm. In the context of that song it was about breaking out of gender norms. And they meant it in a good way.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by TenderKnight

Interesting thread..

Superfemme, thanks for starting it.. Once again, the people on this site have gotten me thinking about how I go through life and the words that I use and how I use them.

I work in Hillcrest, the *gay* area of San Diego. I work in a retail store that has adult toys and DVD's as well as clothing. Mostly clothing,
honestly.. In any case, we cater to mainly gay males.

Oh Hey. I got ran over in Hillcrest on Sixth and Robinson. Somewhere at that intersection there is an outline of my body. Totally serious.

I have used words to describe the straight college kids that look at the dildos and giggle, or the guys that come in on thier cells saying, "Yeah, dude, i just walked into the gay shop". I refer to some of them as breeders to my other co-workers.. Is this right? No.. I never even thought it was hurtful. Reading this thread has changed my views on the term and I won't be using it, or will at least correct myself when I do use it.

I love your honesty. I am also fascinated that you use this term on males. It is super cool that you are going to change your thinking, that makes this thread worth it time 100.

We also refer to some of the more.. Flamboyant.. gay men as Queens. Keep in mind, over half the staff are gay men or at least bi.. But we use it in a derogatory way, usually for the guys that come in, ask for all the size 14 heels we have, try them on, act like.. well, Queens.. and then don't buy anything.

I'll be honest, we tend to call people a lot of things.. lmao.

Now I have to sit back and ask.. why?

My thought is that for *me*, it is out of anger and frustration. I have to get at them some way and I can't be rude to thier faces, so it gets the frustration out..

Unprofessional? Hell yes.. Very human? Also, yes.

Maybe this is the way you take your power back? Having to serve people that are rude to you all day while being forced to smile has to suck.

Someone mentioned the fact that human nature is human nature, and sadly, part of that nature is making one feel better about ones' self by putting another person or a group of people down. I feel angry and belittled with straight boy comes in and finds it funny to see the gay store, like we're a friggin' zoo.. I feel frustrated and belittled when a customer takes 30 to 40 minutes of my time, me climbing ladders and getting shoes and they can't even make eye contact with me and treat me like a servant? Fuck yeah that pisses me off and I may refer to them as a fucking queen.

Words do have power. They can be weapons, or they can be tools for healing.. It's all about how we use them.

Just my .2 on the "shim" "he/she" thing.. *sighs* I am not a fan. I will admit when i was growing up and in the closet, i threw that word around with my then friends and buddies. I was trying to be a part of the straight guy world, and amazingly, there was a lot of name calling involved.. lol Now? I still hear the term, mostly from older lesbians, to be truthful.. *shrugs* I try to explain about transgender and all the personal story stuff, and sometimes it takes, sometimes it doesn't.. But i chalk that one up to ignorance or just plain ass hat behavior (ass hat, now that's a word I'm going to start throwing around more..).

That is how I've used words to hurt others.. In truth, it only hurts and belittles me to use them and to have that negitive energy so near to my heart.. Something that I'm working on, daily.

Thanks again for the thread and to everyone that posted.

-Tony

Again, your post is awesome and has given me some great insight. Thank you so much for sharing and being brave enough to put out there how and why you might use hurtful language in your own community (and out of it). I really appreciate it.

[JakeTulane]

I would like to know other's thoughts on the usage of the word Faggot. I have had it used on Me, and not in a good way. Quite frankly, I have never heard it used in a good way. So, I would have to say to Me it is a word to hurt our own. IMHO.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

I hope you aren't, I know I hope the same thing..!
I do limit my attempts to educate, to those that use words with.. carelessness, not .. with clear nasty intent.
I agree, its very painful, that so many don't care... I wish I had a penny, even in this economy, for every time someone has told me I am too "PC", because I try and explain that how we use..words has power..and that I am offended by someones use of a word..

Thanks.

Is there really such a think as being too considerate or too "PC"?
I hope not. Thanks for understanding.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by JakeTulane

I would like to know other's thoughts on the usage of the word Faggot. I have had it used on Me, and not in a good way. Quite frankly, I have never heard it used in a good way. So, I would have to say to Me it is a word to hurt our own. IMHO.

I dunno, all of the letters to Dan Savage in his column used to stay with "Hey, Faggot" (I don't think they do any more) and I call my best guy friend Faggot all the time.

I think if I were a heterosexual and I was calling my friend Faggot it would be -vastly- different than how it is intended/received coming from my place of Queer-ness.

So again, back to context. Right? The person who called you a Faggot meant it in a hurtful way, I get that. But not every instance where the term Faggot is used is inherently hurtful.

[JakeTulane]

Thank you bete. I agree, it is about context. Oddly, it was said to Me by another queer.. so I was a bit shocked. (hence My mentioning about it being used to hurt our own). I also agree with what you said about "instances" when it is used.

Originally Posted by betenoire

I dunno, all of the letters to Dan Savage in his column used to stay with "Hey, Faggot" (I don't think they do any more) and I call my best guy friend Faggot all the time.

I think if I were a heterosexual and I was calling my friend Faggot it would be -vastly- different than how it is intended/received coming from my place of Queer-ness.

So again, back to context. Right? The person who called you a Faggot meant it in a hurtful way, I get that. But not every instance where the term Faggot is used is inherently hurtful.

[waxnrope]

Thinking, Jake, and as I recollect, I have never heard the word faggot used as an endearment ... fag, sometimes, yes.

I refer to myself (as do some of my friends) as a "faggy" butch ... it is meant as an acknowledgment that I share some stereotypical behaviors and ways of being as my gay brothers. These are good things, by the way. So, I don't mind that, nor do my gay male friends, as they, too, call me this at times. But, faggot, no. Never in my recollection have heard it in anyway except derogatorily.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I dunno, all of the letters to Dan Savage in his column used to stay with "Hey, Faggot" (I don't think they do any more) and I call my best guy friend Faggot all the time.

I think if I were a heterosexual and I was calling my friend Faggot it would be -vastly- different than how it is intended/received coming from my place of Queer-ness.

So again, back to context. Right? The person who called you a Faggot meant it in a hurtful way, I get that. But not every instance where the term Faggot is used is inherently hurtful.

I often refer to myself as a Femme Fag Fatale because of what I like to do to my Beloved. It is me being subversive. So yeah, context. I won't use that language just anywhere.

I know that a lot of people hear the word "faggot" right before a baseball bat hits their head or a fist lands upside their head. I don't want to be the PTSD in anyones day so I try to be really aware. Thanks Jake Tulane for bringing it up.

[waxnrope]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I dunno, all of the letters to Dan Savage in his column used to stay with "Hey, Faggot" (I don't think they do any more) and I call my best guy friend Faggot all the time.

I think if I were a heterosexual and I was calling my friend Faggot it would be -vastly- different than how it is intended/received coming from my place of Queer-ness.

So again, back to context. Right? The person who called you a Faggot meant it in a hurtful way, I get that. But not every instance where the term Faggot is used is inherently hurtful.

thanks for this comment. it so contrasts with my experiences, so yes, context, and I might add, community/ies, may define one's use and understanding of words.

thanks again

[JakeTulane]

Originally Posted by waxnrope

Thinking, Jake, and as I recollect, I have never heard the word faggot used as an endearment ... fag, sometimes, yes.

I refer to myself (as do some of my friends) as a "faggy" butch ... it is meant as an acknowledgment that I share some stereotypical behaviors and ways of being as my gay brothers. These are good things, by the way. So, I don't mind that, nor do my gay male friends, as they, too, call me this at times. But, faggot, no. Never in my recollection have heard it in anyway except derogatorily.

Thank you wax. Odd that if we drop off 3 letters.. it is "seen" differently, or felt, or heard.

[Dylan]

I don't think people outside the group to whom the slur is used get to 'decide' if the term is offensive or not or when it's considered offensive. If One has never belonged to the group in question, than how would One have any point of reference as to it's usage/context/etc?

I also think there's a big difference between the people of the group using the term and people outside the group using the word.


Dylan

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by JakeTulane

Thank you wax. Odd that if we drop off 3 letters.. it is "seen" differently, or felt, or heard.

Ohhh.

GOOD point.

Fag vs. Faggot

I think the latter is used in a more vicious manner.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I don't think people outside the group to whom the slur is used get to 'decide' if the term is offensive or not or when it's considered offensive. If One has never belonged to the group in question, than how would One have any point of reference as to it's usage/context/etc?

I also think there's a big difference between the people of the group using the term and people outside the group using the word.


Dylan

So am I to never know when a racial slur is a racial slur?

As allies to <insert group here> people are never to know when to employ common sense and know something is offensive?

I'm not understanding you here.

[betenoire]

I really think that the relationships between people is a HUGE deciding factor in what is okay and what is not okay. When you reach a certain level of familiarity with someone boundaries shift.

Take for example, my friend Bob. I love Bob. We've been friends for, well, for nearly forever. Bob calls me names all the time, her favourite being "twat". I'm sure she's done it at least once in these here forums.

I am okay with Bob calling me a twat, because Bob is my friend and she loves me and I know that Bob has absolutely no malicious will when it comes to me. I call her all sorts of things, too. (My personal favourite is anal fissure.) It's all good. It's part of our shtick.

But if someone who I did not have that kind of relationship with were to call me a twat - I would probably break their nose.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by blush

Fair enough. I hear you. I didn't intend it as a red herring to diminish the horror of what happens to women(girls). Genital mutilation is genital mutilation, whether it happens to boy or girl infants.

Sincerely, I do hope you'll contribute to the thread Nat started.

I read this post several times and thought about it and thought about it...........

It is NOT mutilation to cut off the foreskin of a penis. It IS mutilation to cut off the clitoris and the labia. There is a HUGE difference between these 2 acts.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I read this post several times and thought about it and thought about it...........

It is NOT mutilation to cut off the foreskin of a penis. It IS mutilation to cut off the clitoris and the labia. There is a HUGE difference between these 2 acts.

technicality. you are both right.

genital mutilation


–noun any type of cutting or removal of all or some of the genital organs, esp. excision of the clitoris.