Breeder and other words we use to hurt our own. - Page 10

MsMerrick · 06-13-2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

By the "naming of the slut" i am talking about a way we femmes ostracize one another and other one another. I don't know how to articulate it.

I think that is a different thing, form the word slut.. I agree that it is very disturbing and I would say,misogynistic .. Serious echos of the idea that women are owned by men, who dictate when and where it is appropriate to have sex ! But I don't think it has anything to do with the specific word slut.,.. !

SuperFemme · 06-13-2010, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

I think any word, can be used.. in different ways. They are words.. The context is everything..
If the question is , do I use them ? That's a different question.
There are plenty of words, that one person finds ok, and another is bothered by. Some find a turn on even..
There's tons of words I don't personally want to ever hear around me.. ! But that doesn't mean I don't understand that for some, they are either not offensive, or a term of endearment even.
Its not the words themselves.. Its when and how
A lovely example several years ago, was when someone called a particular female identified Butch, Miss..
Context, is everything, Nothing wrong with the word
and technically, correct.
Context ? insultingly meant .... clearly so..
Even more years ago, when I was a moderator for the GLCF Forum, way back in the stone ages of the Internet.. ! There was a rumor, that certain words were forbidden. Not so... There was a list of words to watch for, to check for context ..Certainly those are words more likely to be used as insults.. But .. not always, and , good grief....seriously, do you all, those who ahh..jumped on this..really think you know everything in everyone's lives and cultures , and exactly what one person might murmur to another , what might bring an intimate blush to one person ?
I don't, and that is my point... !

I agree with this post.

Not looking to make any words forbidden, but when you say to me that you have *only* seen the words shim and shehe used in an endearing way I am going to call bullshit on that.

I am willing to concede that you may have seen them used in an endearing way, but only? Really? You can honestly say those words are not hurtful?

MsMerrick · 06-13-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I agree with this post.

Not looking to make any words forbidden, but when you say to me that you have *only* seen the words shim and shehe used in an endearing way I am going to call bullshit on that.

I am willing to concede that you may have seen them used in an endearing way, but only? Really? You can honestly say those words are not hurtful?

Umm.. maybe you might read back, I never said any such thing... !

Soon · 06-13-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

I think any word, can be used.. in different ways. They are words.. The context is everything..
If the question is , do I use them ? That's a different question.
There are plenty of words, that one person finds ok, and another is bothered by. Some find a turn on even..
There's tons of words I don't personally want to ever hear around me.. ! But that doesn't mean I don't understand that for some, they are either not offensive, or a term of endearment even.
Its not the words themselves.. Its when and how
A lovely example several years ago, was when someone called a particular female identified Butch, Miss..
Context, is everything, Nothing wrong with the word
and technically, correct.
Context ? insultingly meant .... clearly so..
Even more years ago, when I was a moderator for the GLCF Forum, way back in the stone ages of the Internet.. ! There was a rumor, that certain words were forbidden. Not so... There was a list of words to watch for, to check for context ..Certainly those are words more likely to be used as insults.. But .. not always, and , good grief....seriously, do you all, those who ahh..jumped on this..really think you know everything in everyone's lives and cultures , and exactly what one person might murmur to another , what might bring an intimate blush to one person ?
I don't, and that is my point... !

Nothing wrong with the word, Miss, I agree--context works in this case. (actually, I prefer that the terms miss and mrs. were abolished, but that's a different topic).

However, some words were created JUST to degrade and to be used in an insulting manner.

The words "Shim" and "HeShe"--especially in this day and age-- are pretty much used to invalidate, disparage or mock someone's gender identity.

I am not buying that context works with these two degrading terms or that they could ever be used in endearing ways.

SuperFemme · 06-13-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

There are the attacks on gender which I and somebody else have mentioned: Shim, HeShe

There is the naming of the Slut: This is particularly hurtful. I think it happens in groups of women when we don't understand each other or are feeling insecure. It is sticky because the word slut when used by ones self can be empowering. When used to tear a woman down it can be really hurtful.

Anybody else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

Sorry, all those words can be endearing in context ..Seriously ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

Umm.. maybe you might read back, I never said any such thing... !

I need a bloody mary and maybe some more sleep then, because respectfully MsMerrick it really looked like you were saying those words are endearing words. If not then my mistake and let's carry on...

Mr. Moon · 06-13-2010, 01:53 PM

and the list goes on.....

and therefore, I believe, sometimes we over think and over do all this ummm "stuff" about who said what and what word is best.

I said to my Mom, just the other day.....when we were talking about something like the electric company or some other such frustrating thing (probably that effin oil disaster).... "ya know that fucking pisses me off" and she replied "Yes I'm fucking tired of it"....then she said "oh listen to my language..."....

I, of course, laughed. I said "Mom, it's just a word. A word that "someone" decided they didn't like and therefore labeled it "wrong". (I could list them all...here but someone would be offended I'm sure).

Language. I think words are words. And I have already admitted to some making me shudder. But I also know at that moment that it's NOT ABOUT ME.

Now if you are calling someone names....that's about you and them. And there are many things people do and say in that instance. But the rest of it...

it's words ...language.

-Mr. Moon

Spirit Dancer · 06-13-2010, 01:55 PM

I've got just a moment before a nursing supervisor comes in,
The kiddo and I were in the hallway awaiting entry into the room,
older nurse says to aide, take this into room ... aide said huh?
the room with the heshe you know?...
Meare you speaking of.... nurse: yes and that is what she is
omg, I went off asking for her supervisor and promptly requesting a new nurse
informed her she was not to address hym nor enter hys room. She huffed off; I followed kiddo in tow. We get to the desk and before I can say another word,
kiddo spews" what is wrong with you, don't you know that some boys were born in the wrong body, shame on you." From the mouth of a nine year old who knows those words are slurs and hurt. Me to her, babygirl I love you.

SuperFemme · 06-13-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Moon

and the list goes on.....

and therefore, I believe, sometimes we over think and over do all this ummm "stuff" about who said what and what word is best.

I said to my Mom, just the other day.....when we were talking about something like the electric company or some other such frustrating thing (probably that effin oil disaster).... "ya know that fucking pisses me off" and she replied "Yes I'm fucking tired of it"....then she said "oh listen to my language..."....

I, of course, laughed. I said "Mom, it's just a word. A word that "someone" decided they didn't like and therefore labeled it "wrong". (I could list them all...here but someone would be offended I'm sure).

Language. I think words are words. And I have already admitted to some making me shudder. But I also know at that moment that it's NOT ABOUT ME.

Now if you are calling someone names....that's about you and them. And there are many things people do and say in that instance. But the rest of it...

it's words ...language.

-Mr. Moon

i don't think language is *just* language.

i admit to being a certified dweeb geek child who was teased every day of my childhood. i was told to just ignore it. sticks and stones and all...

words are powerful. words can hurt and words can make you ten feet tall. the tongue IS mightier than the sword.

of course it's not always about me. it's about dylan.

06-13-2010, 02:10 PM

I have a friend, who is femme, and chose to be artificially inseminated. She wanted a child. Is she a breeder? No. She is a Mother and in my book, that's the most supreme acknowledgment/compliment I can give her.

People who have nasty things to say have nasty hearts and even nastier minds.

waxnrope · 06-13-2010, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

I think any word, can be used.. in different ways. They are words.. The context is everything..
If the question is , do I use them ? That's a different question.
There are plenty of words, that one person finds ok, and another is bothered by. Some find a turn on even..
There's tons of words I don't personally want to ever hear around me.. ! But that doesn't mean I don't understand that for some, they are either not offensive, or a term of endearment even.
Its not the words themselves.. Its when and how
A lovely example several years ago, was when someone called a particular female identified Butch, Miss..
Context, is everything, Nothing wrong with the word
and technically, correct.
Context ? insultingly meant .... clearly so..
Even more years ago, when I was a moderator for the GLCF Forum, way back in the stone ages of the Internet.. ! There was a rumor, that certain words were forbidden. Not so... There was a list of words to watch for, to check for context ..Certainly those are words more likely to be used as insults.. But .. not always, and , good grief....seriously, do you all, those who ahh..jumped on this..really think you know everything in everyone's lives and cultures , and exactly what one person might murmur to another , what might bring an intimate blush to one person ?
I don't, and that is my point... !

Yes, exactly so, IMO. However, as I said a few pages back (and Darth brings up again here), in this place, on this site, on this thread, the word offends.
However, please be aware that there are sometimes cultural and ethnic uses of these words that you find offensive that are not always meant to be offensive, and are considered endearments. I think of how AA often use the word "nigg..." to address one another ... there is a twist, a turn, on the old derogatory use of the term. It is akin to the negritude movement, wherein french people of African descent decided to take those derogatory comments about their origins, skin color, stereotypical characterizations, and twist or turn them into something that had positive attributes. There is power in that, you see.

It is NOT that I LIKE hearing this use of the "n word", but common usage does take the sting out of hearing it. So don't get started on me about that. Anyway, we do not always know the intention/s of one another's use of a word, nor the context in which it was uttered. Yet, there are those, no matter how good the intent (informational/instructional, critical thinking, etc.) find it offensive. It is just simply better, then, to leave it the heck alone HERE. And develop another thread to discuss this academically or critically. Punto. I'm done. LOL.

MsMerrick · 06-13-2010, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I need a bloody mary and maybe some more sleep then, because respectfully MsMerrick it really looked like you were saying those words are endearing words. If not then my mistake and let's carry on...

I don't know what to tell you. You quoted me exactly and i read what I said, and what I said was NOT that those words are endearing
I said they can be endearing in context.. All 3 words btw, not just the gender ones....
I did not say, nor did what you quoted say, that They Were Endearments.,.. or that the words themselves, were meant as endearments or endearing in of themselves.. !
the words "in context" give the relative sense of the sentence. .
Is that any more clear?

Hudson · 06-13-2010, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

I think any word, can be used.. in different ways. They are words.. The context is everything..
If the question is , do I use them ? That's a different question.
There are plenty of words, that one person finds ok, and another is bothered by. Some find a turn on even..
There's tons of words I don't personally want to ever hear around me.. ! But that doesn't mean I don't understand that for some, they are either not offensive, or a term of endearment even.
Its not the words themselves.. Its when and how
A lovely example several years ago, was when someone called a particular female identified Butch, Miss..
Context, is everything, Nothing wrong with the word
and technically, correct.
Context ? insultingly meant .... clearly so..
Even more years ago, when I was a moderator for the GLCF Forum, way back in the stone ages of the Internet.. ! There was a rumor, that certain words were forbidden. Not so... There was a list of words to watch for, to check for context ..Certainly those are words more likely to be used as insults.. But .. not always, and , good grief....seriously, do you all, those who ahh..jumped on this..really think you know everything in everyone's lives and cultures , and exactly what one person might murmur to another , what might bring an intimate blush to one person ?
I don't, and that is my point... !

Like when you addressed me as "little girl" on "that other site"? Luckily, my balls are bigger than even your lack of self-awareness! Sorry, but seeing you 'educate' others on this subject causes my breakfast to sneak back up on me.

SuperFemme · 06-13-2010, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMerrick

I don't know what to tell you. You quoted me exactly and i read what I said, and what I said was NOT that those words are endearing
I said they can be endearing in context.. All 3 words btw, not just the gender ones....
I did not say, nor did what you quoted say, that They Were Endearments.,.. or that the words themselves, were meant as endearments or endearing in of themselves.. !
the words "in context" give the relative sense of the sentence. .
Is that any more clear?

Yes, that is more clear. Thanks.

betenoire · 06-13-2010, 02:47 PM

How about we leave the old site at the old site and old grudges where they lay.

Hudson, if Merrick really hurt you all that badly maybe the two of you can discuss that in private. I think it's dirty pool to use something that someone said 1 - elsewhere and 2 - HOW long ago was that (I don't know) as a means of dismissing all of their opinions on all subjects for all eternity.

Hudson · 06-13-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betenoire

How about we leave the old site at the old site and old grudges where they lay.

Hudson, if Merrick really hurt you all that badly maybe the two of you can discuss that in private. I think it's dirty pool to use something that someone said 1 - elsewhere and 2 - HOW long ago was that (I don't know) as a means of dismissing all of their opinions on all subjects for all eternity.

How about you don't moderate the thread?

SuperFemme · 06-13-2010, 02:55 PM

I am very aware that a word like "Shim" that may be hurtful to me might not be hurtful to joe schmoe.

What to do when I hit the brick wall of a person who really doesn't care that it's hurtful? I mean there is no rule that it is anyone's responsibility to give a rats ass that a word may cause pain to others.

Am I naive in my hope that others will care?

MsMerrick · 06-13-2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Yes, that is more clear. Thanks.

I am sorry for causing any distress, I did not in any way mean to be suggesting that those words were usually endearments. Simply that they could be...

betenoire · 06-13-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudson

How about you don't moderate the thread?

Not moderating, just voicing an opinion. I'm allowed to do that, right? Have opinions about stuff?

Just out of curiosity - are all instances where someone tries to deflect an attack on a friend "moderating"? Or is it only moderating when I do it?

UofMfan · 06-13-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudson

Like when you addressed me as "little girl" on "that other site"? Luckily, my balls are bigger than even your lack of self-awareness! Sorry, but seeing you 'educate' others on this subject causes my breakfast to sneak back up on me.

MODERATING:

Hudson, personal attacks and bringing drama from other sites is against TOS.

This is a warning. If you have any personal issues to iron out, please do so in private.

In addition, the comment you just posted only adds fuel to the fire. This does not add any thing of value to the thread.

Hudson · 06-13-2010, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betenoire

Not moderating, just voicing an opinion. I'm allowed to do that, right? Have opinions about stuff?

Just out of curiosity - are all instances where someone tries to deflect an attack on a friend "moderating"? Or is it only moderating when I do it?

I reckon only you can answer that. I thought you were 'just voicing an opinion'.

06-13-2010, 01:55 PM	#187
Spirit Dancer Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Complex but Tender Preferred Pronoun?: ~Ma`am~ Relationship Status: Shotgun Rider Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Following the red road Posts: 4,519 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,304 Thanked 12,913 Times in 3,466 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Weighing in on heshe I've got just a moment before a nursing supervisor comes in, The kiddo and I were in the hallway awaiting entry into the room, older nurse says to aide, take this into room ... aide said huh? the room with the heshe you know?... Meare you speaking of.... nurse: yes and that is what she is omg, I went off asking for her supervisor and promptly requesting a new nurse informed her she was not to address hym nor enter hys room. She huffed off; I followed kiddo in tow. We get to the desk and before I can say another word, kiddo spews" what is wrong with you, don't you know that some boys were born in the wrong body, shame on you." From the mouth of a nine year old who knows those words are slurs and hurt. Me to her, babygirl I love you. __________________ “For it was not into my ear you whispered, but into my heart. It was not my lips you kissed, but my soul.” Judy Garland

06-13-2010, 02:47 PM	#194
betenoire Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Satan in a Sunday Hat Preferred Pronoun?: Maow Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: The Chemical Valley Posts: 4,086 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,312 Thanked 8,738 Times in 2,565 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	How about we leave the old site at the old site and old grudges where they lay. Hudson, if Merrick really hurt you all that badly maybe the two of you can discuss that in private. I think it's dirty pool to use something that someone said 1 - elsewhere and 2 - HOW long ago was that (I don't know) as a means of dismissing all of their opinions on all subjects for all eternity. __________________ bête noire \bet-NWAHR\, noun: One that is particularly disliked or that is to be avoided.

06-13-2010, 01:53 PM	#186
Mr. Moon Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: he, she, it, hey you Relationship Status: single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 329 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 636 Thanked 1,160 Times in 229 Posts Rep Power: 10385664	and the list goes on..... and therefore, I believe, sometimes we over think and over do all this ummm "stuff" about who said what and what word is best. I said to my Mom, just the other day.....when we were talking about something like the electric company or some other such frustrating thing (probably that effin oil disaster).... "ya know that fucking pisses me off" and she replied "Yes I'm fucking tired of it"....then she said "oh listen to my language...".... I, of course, laughed. I said "Mom, it's just a word. A word that "someone" decided they didn't like and therefore labeled it "wrong". (I could list them all...here but someone would be offended I'm sure). Language. I think words are words. And I have already admitted to some making me shudder. But I also know at that moment that it's NOT ABOUT ME. Now if you are calling someone names....that's about you and them. And there are many things people do and say in that instance. But the rest of it... it's words ...language. -Mr. Moon

06-13-2010, 02:10 PM	#189
Femme Guest Tournaments Won: 1 Posts: n/a My Photo Gallery	I have a friend, who is femme, and chose to be artificially inseminated. She wanted a child. Is she a breeder? No. She is a Mother and in my book, that's the most supreme acknowledgment/compliment I can give her. People who have nasty things to say have nasty hearts and even nastier minds.

06-13-2010, 02:55 PM	#196
SuperFemme Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 10/24/2010 Preferred Pronoun?: She. Relationship Status: Married (one of 18,000) Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Atascadero, CA Posts: 4,933 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,309 Thanked 7,108 Times in 2,327 Posts Rep Power: 0	I am very aware that a word like "Shim" that may be hurtful to me might not be hurtful to joe schmoe. What to do when I hit the brick wall of a person who really doesn't care that it's hurtful? I mean there is no rule that it is anyone's responsibility to give a rats ass that a word may cause pain to others. Am I naive in my hope that others will care?