Men with boobs.

[Toughy]

But I do have a question. If comparing a masculine female to a man is upsetting...is it also upsetting when someone refers to their (female identified) lover as "Daddy" "Sir" "My Husband" etc. I get that those words do not mean "man" to us in this community - but I also get that those are words that have been used to describe men in various positions...well, for as long as those words have existed. Should we as a community reject those words? Should we be making up new words?

I'm not trying to be a shit-disturber by asking that question. I genuinely can't wrap my head around how one thing is diminishing and the other is perfectly acceptable. We cannot have it both ways.

I'm not anyone's husband ever. I'm not even a huzbutch. When I was married (to a woman for 16 years) she was my wife and I was her wife if we used those kind of terms.

As to Daddy and Syr............well those are erotic and/or sexuality identities for Me. You had best be calling Me Syr when I am powered up in full Top/Dom mode and you are My bottom/sub. Daddy....not so much and usually only in jest. My kinky Top self is pretty male id'd.....not much in touch with the woman parts of me. It's male but it's a different kind of male.

However I would suggest that there are Femme Daddies and Femme Syrs. I know some.............<looking at Snow>. Certainly within the kink community any gender can claim Sir/Syr and Daddy or Mommy or Ma'am. And then we can be ponies or doggies or cats and trainers and handlers or we can be littles and those who take care of the littles.

Sexuality and kink identifications are not the same as gender ID. I am woman. I am butch...........I am not man nor do I want to be one or compared to one.

The general public who read 'short man with boobs' has no earthly idea about the nuances of gender/sexuality/kink. Hell half of this community doesn't get kink and it's relationship (or lack of) to sexuality and gender.

What the general public read was masculine woman=man.

edited to add:....darlin I can have it as many ways as I want it.......laughin....and I don't see me hating male pronouns for butch default and being called Syr when I get out my single-tail as having it both ways.......they are not the same thing at all..........

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I'm not anyone's husband ever. I'm not even a huzbutch. When I was married (to a woman for 16 years) she was my wife and I was her wife if we used those kind of terms.

As to Daddy and Syr............well those are erotic and/or sexuality identities for Me. You had best be calling Me Syr when I am powered up in full Top/Dom mode and you are My bottom/sub. Daddy....not so much and usually only in jest. My kinky Top self is pretty male id'd.....not much in touch with the woman parts of me. It's male but it's a different kind of male.

However I would suggest that there are Femme Daddies and Femme Syrs. I know some.............<looking at Snow>. Certainly within the kink community any gender can claim Sir/Syr and Daddy or Mommy or Ma'am. And then we can be ponies or doggies or cats and trainers and handlers or we can be littles and those who take care of the littles.

Sexuality and kink identifications are not the same as gender ID. I am woman. I am butch...........I am not man nor do I want to be one or compared to one.

The general public who read 'short man with boobs' has no earthly idea about the nuances of gender/sexuality/kink. Hell half of this community doesn't get kink and it's relationship (or lack of) to sexuality and gender.

What the general public read was masculine woman=man.

edited to add:....darlin I can have it as many ways as I want it.......laughin....and I don't see me hating male pronouns for butch default and being called Syr when I get out my single-tail as having it both ways.......they are not the same thing at all..........

*waves*

Why yes.. I am Daddy

Sir

Master

All very masculine, I even have a boy...

No one calls me a man with boobs though

I feel cheated...

[PapaC]

... is how easily and once again, a description of a masculine woman or an 'explanation' of who she is, is reduced down to the lowest common denominator:

her boobs
her tits
her tatas
her melons
her mammories
her rack
her dairy queen
her knockers
her cans
her jiggily jugs (ok I added the jiggily for some fun)

... mention a women's boobs, and everyone's all "OH! ok, now I get it"

reduced.

I recently saw LA Story so this is fresh in my head:

"I could not handle being a woman, I would stay home all day and play with my breasts." - Steve Martin


I'm fucking tired of US being reduced down or reducing ourselves down to body parts.

<shaking head>

[Nat]

Originally Posted by PapaC

... is how easily and once again, a description of a masculine woman or an 'explanation' of who she is, is reduced down to the lowest common denominator:

her boobs
her tits
her tatas
her melons
her mammories
her rack
her dairy queen
her knockers
her cans
her jiggily jugs (ok I added the jiggily for some fun)

... mention a women's boobs, and everyone's all "OH! ok, now I get it"

reduced.

I recently saw LA Story so this is fresh in my head:

"I could not handle being a woman, I would stay home all day and play with my breasts." - Steve Martin


I'm fucking tired of US being reduced down or reducing ourselves down to body parts.

<shaking head>

This part got to me too - defining one's partner by their breasts just really bothers me. I would find it extremely odious if my partner's definition of me included "boobs." As a person who is not a butch, that part cut me deeper.

[AtLast]

[QUOTE=Toughy;104615]

Sexuality and kink identifications are not the same as gender ID. I am woman. I am butch...........I am not man nor do I want to be one or compared to one.

The general public who read 'short man with boobs' has no earthly idea about the nuances of gender/sexuality/kink. Hell half of this community doesn't get kink and it's relationship (or lack of) to sexuality and gender.

What the general public read was masculine woman=man.

[QUOTE]

Yup! Sexuality & kink identifications are not the same! At all!!! Also, the statement in included with boobs... Just doesn't equate to me. the reference places butch in a male default. Which is something that does bug many of us.

I am wondering too if some male-identified butches might take offense as well.. and then there is the short thing. This could set off some butches or short people in general. I can see transmen being offended too due to sensitivity to the narrow definitions of women in general. After all, there are many feminist transmen here that are partnered with women and they have experienced past sexism (along with transphobia) themselves. Many femmes find this offensive- the OP for one.

I have no idea if she was just making a statement in jest, could be. Maybe it is a term of endearment, dunno. I don't hold her to any higher standard. I am offended as a butch, a feminist and as a woman, however. Crazy, ultra offended- no. Just think its important for people to say what they feel about this because we all do have some deep feelings about gender and sexism, no matter how we identify.

I do not feel this so called hatred between male and female identified butches or transmen. I have at times in the past, but honestly see movement in our working through anger and differences. Sure, there has been heated discussions and oh, so, many gender threads about butches. This tells me that we are a complex group with individual characteristics representing a multitude of what a butch is. I have learned alot by reading differing posts about other's butch identity.