Some labels do not include trans in the definition

[BullDog]

Saying you believe that butch and female identities are female identities and wondering where man fits in is not the same thing as saying they shouldn't be welcome. I didn't read Jess' post as saying they shouldn't be welcome.

Very few (I can't think of any but there could be some) transitioned men identify as butch. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be welcome in a butch femme community if they want to be a part of it.

[SuperFemme]

What happens to masculine id'd butches? Those that transition not to male, but out of female and into another gender all together.

Bit? As for me having hurt feelings after reading that *males* don't belong here? I read it exactly as it was written. Please don't negate my feelings again, ok?

I'm trying to make sense of it all, just like Jess.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Bit? As for me having hurt feelings after reading that *males* don't belong here? I read it exactly as it was written. Please don't negate my feelings again, ok?

I didn't negate your feelings, Adele. I stated that you posted about being excluded from the community--and on reading your post again, this sentence, "It feels very Michigan Womans Fest to me in the sense of being incredibly exclusionary in an environment I believed was inclusionary." still says to me that you were posting about transmen and their partners being excluded from the community.

I don't know how you would read my interpreting that you were talking about being excluded from the community as anything other than supportive of your feelings.

It says nothing whatever about you (or your feelings) for me to say that I believe Jess was talking about transmen who have fully transitioned not being butches anymore; I've seldom run into any men who wanted to be referred to as butches once they finish transitioning, so I don't see his statement as disrespectful or exclusionary, especially since he says, "This does not exclude them from the LGBT community..."

If we disagree on what Jess meant by his post, that's fine, but disagreeing about the way to interpret someone else's post is not the same as negating your feelings.

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

What happens to masculine id'd butches? Those that transition not to male, but out of female and into another gender all together.

Thanks for bringing this up it's a good point. Sometimes in these gender discussions I feel like I have to pick a side to fit in all the way on the imaginary gender scale some have made.