Men with boobs.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Yes, I agree with this post and your other one AtLast. Femininity is viewed as negative.

I think it is very important to examine the language, and underlying attitudes, that is used for describing butches and women overall. No one here is placing blame on any one particular group of people (i.e. femmes) or something one particular person said.

There is this subtle, and many times not so subtle message, within butch femme communities that if you are male identified or you are butch (no matter how you identify) that the worse thing in the world is to be female and a woman. That and internalized homophobia is where we got to the male defaults in the first place. It actually has nothing to do with male identified butches at all.

Why do people use terms like emasculate and feminize (which I hear coming from butches and trans men just as much as femmes) when male identified butches and trans men's pronouns, gender or sexual boundaries are not respected? Your identity and boundaries are not being respected for who you are, but it's not a crime to be a woman. It's transphobia and misogyny at work and just plain disrespect to you as a person. I'd like more male identified people and others when they see these forms of behavior call that out instead of getting insulted that people are trying to emasculate them or feminize them (treat them like a "woman").

How can someone emasculate or feminize someone by how they refer to them or how someone is touched? I don't believe the way someone refers to you or touches you "feminizes" or "masculinizes" (we only hear about "feminizes") you. Your femininity and masculinity is yours. You own it.

I am a stone butch and my boundaries and sexual preferences have absolutely nothing to do with not wanting to be "feminized." When one particular ex of mine (who isn't on this website or last website) tried to say I wasn't butch when she was mad I told her flat out- I am butch and you can't take that away from me.

There is lots and lots of anti-woman language and attitudes in our culture. Unfortunately it is very evident in butch femme culture as well. Everyone's gender, pronouns and sexuality should be respected, but it is not a horrible thing to be a woman and butch women embrace their masculinity just as male identified butches do.

Yes, and the main reason for my having to apply so much of my spiritual beliefs to butch identity actually stems from this as well as the limitations of the English language. Yikes, and my very broken Italian and spanish does not help either! Two-Spirit, some Pagan ideology as well as Jungian psychology, along with Eastern philosophies seem to give me better balance personally as a butch. I wish I had talent with languages, as I believe this would help.

Nope... no one can take butch identity from anyone or femme identity Just wish we would leave the patriarchal men/male/masculine as supreme behind... sort of like the mix, myself and prefer equity in all things. Just what fits for me.

[redrose]

i like lookin' at butch's boobs and i am very much amazed on the way they hide it, just sayin' ...

[Rockinonahigh]

Weather im called him,hy or she dosent make a bit of diffrents to me,I know who I am and the direction im going.Now at work these last eight months many folks have slowly began to call me Mrs.Mike insted of Mrs.Mary,at first they had no idea what to call me so I just went with the flow cause I figured it would be a bit of a stretch to get the temanology down for so many of them as they are way older and some very confused.Some of my co workers didnt want to cause a rift but I took the same approach and its working out ok even tho i have had a couple who really finaly pushed the wrong button and got burned for it..one got reported the other got told off...not on company propeprty but just the same I made my point.Even tho now and again it gets a bit sticky I just go with the folw somemore.The way I see it is its not giveing in to the establishment,its dealing with life as it comes.My friend,family and he ppl who I feel are important to me know the way to the world I live in and how it really is away from work and are ok with it.The only place I have problems is at the pool hall,thete is a certan section of ppl who will get get my dander up a bit whats said about how I express my gender choices and expression.These I am very carefull about cause they are the one who will, at some point become a bigger problem.