What attracts you to Ftms ......

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Am I the only person who is bothered by stereotypical generalizations about (oppressed) groups of people? Even if those stereotypical generalizations are *supposed to be* compliments?

Black men have big dicks

Jewish men are good with money

Mexican men are just so romantic and Don Juanish

Transmen are just so sensitive and 'in touch'

When I hear these kinds of stereotypical generalizations about transmen, I just HAVE to wonder how many transmen some folks meet off of this site and in the real world

Which then leads me to wonder how folks knew they were being hit on by a cisguy (in reference to the creepy crawler comment by Softness) and not a transguy.

I also don't understand what someone's sexuality ("this transguy was bi, but then went straight" or "That transguy was straight and then fucked men after T") has to do with the price of rice


I'm Sure I'll Be Filleted For All Of This...But...Eh,
Dylan...NOT more 'in tune' than anyone else when it comes to the wants/needs/desires of women

While I like a good fillet, it won't be comprised of you...promise!

I see the offense in generalizations. But I also see that stereotypes exist for a reason; a specific pattern of behavior has been observed and documented. Stereotypes are there because so many people of one particular sex/color/creed/etc have behaved in a particular way often. This exists for all of us, whether or not we're part of an oppressed group.

That doesn't make it right for folks to access a particular group based strictly on things they've "heard", of course. I just wonder if there is an acceptable middle ground somewhere or if there are going to be many of us who are always up in arms about every generalization for every group. That would be extremely exhausting to me.

Just my .02 on a day when I'm actually pretty calm. Tomorrow may change though....

[betenoire]

I know this is unpopular opinion, and it's really none of my business who other people date...but it strikes me as icky when someone will date an FTM but not a non-trans man. Like, TO ME, that insinuates that they don't fully acknowledge their lovers sex/gender.

[TenderKnight]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I know this is unpopular opinion, and it's really none of my business who other people date...but it strikes me as icky when someone will date an FTM but not a non-trans man. Like, TO ME, that insinuates that they don't fully acknowledge their lovers sex/gender.

YES! THANK YOU!!! I have wondered the same myself.. and please don't take this as bashing people's choices or attractions, but sometimes I feel like transguys are the "safe" guys, because they are *really* men.. *le sigh*

I get what you mean, thanks for putting into words.

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by betenoire

I know this is unpopular opinion, and it's really none of my business who other people date...but it strikes me as icky when someone will date an FTM but not a non-trans man. Like, TO ME, that insinuates that they don't fully acknowledge their lovers sex/gender.

I can understand this line of thought. For myself, it's not only about who they are now but who they've been their entire lives. For me, there MUST be a connection to the Queer community in some way. If there is none, which is true for most non-trans men, I believe....I can't go there. The tie to the community is one that binds for me.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by Gemme

I can understand this line of thought. For myself, it's not only about who they are now but who they've been their entire lives. For me, there MUST be a connection to the Queer community in some way. If there is none, which is true for most non-trans men, I believe....I can't go there. The tie to the community is one that binds for me.

So would you date a non-trans guy if he were bisexual or at least a strong activist/ally? Bisexual men are part of the Queer community, and real vocal activists/allies -do- experience some of the same beatdown/judgement/whatever that those of us who actually are Queer get. (not that oppression should be the glass through which we view/legitimize queerdom.)

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by betenoire

So would you date a non-trans guy if he were bisexual or at least a strong activist/ally? Bisexual men are part of the Queer community, and real vocal activists/allies -do- experience some of the same beatdown/judgement/whatever that those of us who actually are Queer get. (not that oppression should be the glass through which we view/legitimize queerdom.)

I suppose it's possible. I haven't met anyone that meets that criteria that I was attracted to, though, so I can't say for certain.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Gemme

While I like a good fillet, it won't be comprised of you...promise!

I see the offense in generalizations. But I also see that stereotypes exist for a reason; a specific pattern of behavior has been observed and documented. Stereotypes are there because so many people of one particular sex/color/creed/etc have behaved in a particular way often. This exists for all of us, whether or not we're part of an oppressed group.

That doesn't make it right for folks to access a particular group based strictly on things they've "heard", of course. I just wonder if there is an acceptable middle ground somewhere or if there are going to be many of us who are always up in arms about every generalization for every group. That would be extremely exhausting to me.

Just my .02 on a day when I'm actually pretty calm. Tomorrow may change though....

Well, what's more bothersome to me is really this idea that transmen are just so 'wonderfully in tune' with women

Well, and this whole, "two spirit" idea.

Again, it just reeks of people who have only met transmen from/thru these sites. Many of the transguys I know in real time don't affiliate with the queer community, and I challenge anyone to find them 'more in tune', color them a man-woman, or even KNOW they were trans.

Seriously, how in the hell does One know if they're being hit on by a transguy or a cisguy? I'm trans, and I have no idea half the guys I meet are trans until they say something about it...and that's in TRANS space.

And no, I don't believe generalizations and stereotypes necessarily occur just because a bunch of people 'really do act like that'. I think people see what they want to see and toss out the rest. And honestly, whether a stereotype is true in one instance or two instances, it doesn't then make it 'ok' to say it somewhere (like "Jews really ARE good with money"). I mean, seriously. I just can't imagine another group of people we'd be dissecting like this without someone from that group being up in arms.

"Oh, well, I dated a black guy once, and his dick was sooooooooo big...it's really true...hehehe, sometimes, the stereotypes are really true...p.s. he also liked grape soda...YAYYYYYYYYY Black Men!!!!!"

WTF?

Or, "Transmen date well" Really? WTF is that? Or, "Oh, well, I see transmen as just the perfect mix between male and female?" Really? What the fuck is that? "It's like all the best parts of a man, with all of the sensitivity of a woman". Some men are sensitive, some men are assholes. If you like sensitive men, then like sensitive men...but don't lump all transmen into some (dis)illusional picture you've created, because you know a few who act like that...while you then assume every realtime (creepy) guy who hits on you is cis.

I mean, come on...it's kind of gross


Dylan...LOVES grape soda

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Dylan

Well, what's more bothersome to me is really this idea that transmen are just so 'wonderfully in tune' with women

Well, and this whole, "two spirit" idea.

Again, it just reeks of people who have only met transmen from/thru these sites. Many of the transguys I know in real time don't affiliate with the queer community, and I challenge anyone to find them 'more in tune', color them a man-woman, or even KNOW they were trans.

Seriously, how in the hell does One know if they're being hit on by a transguy or a cisguy? I'm trans, and I have no idea half the guys I meet are trans until they say something about it...and that's in TRANS space.

And no, I don't believe generalizations and stereotypes necessarily occur just because a bunch of people 'really do act like that'. I think people see what they want to see and toss out the rest. And honestly, whether a stereotype is true in one instance or two instances, it doesn't then make it 'ok' to say it somewhere (like "Jews really ARE good with money"). I mean, seriously. I just can't imagine another group of people we'd be dissecting like this without someone from that group being up in arms.

"Oh, well, I dated a black guy once, and his dick was sooooooooo big...it's really true...hehehe, sometimes, the stereotypes are really true...p.s. he also liked grape soda...YAYYYYYYYYY Black Men!!!!!"

WTF?

Or, "Transmen date well" Really? WTF is that? Or, "Oh, well, I see transmen as just the perfect mix between male and female?" Really? What the fuck is that? "It's like all the best parts of a man, with all of the sensitivity of a woman". Some men are sensitive, some men are assholes. If you like sensitive men, then like sensitive men...but don't lump all transmen into some (dis)illusional picture you've created, because you know a few who act like that...while you then assume every realtime (creepy) guy who hits on you is cis.

I mean, come on...it's kind of gross


Dylan...LOVES grape soda

Thanks for reworking your thought. I wasn't seeing it from this angle and I get what you are saying better now.

From my own personal experience, I've only seriously dated a couple of Trans guys. One remained connected to the community and one was repulsed by it. So I may not have some of the perceptions that others have since I've seen guys who do and do not fit the stereotypes that you are addressing.

Food for thought....

Gemme...who also loves grape soda

[BullDog]

I personally am not the slightest bit surprised that a queer femme would have a preference for someone associated with her queer community (which wouldn't be the same as the gay male community that a bisexual man would tend to be a part of).

[Sachita]

basically what Diva and Softness said about 2 spirit only it's more like a third sex thing for me. I'm attracted to masculine energy. This can be ftm, trans, butch... doesnt matter to me how they ID, if I feel it I know it and its all about chemistry. To be honest I've dated a few people that were like this, 3rd sex, very masculine but didn't consider themselves anything and I really like this.
I would be attracted to a transguy as long as he didnt emulate a biomale. It would be way too hard for me to explain this but if you're there you know what I mean.

But the bottom line is I don't care. If we connect we connect.

[Toughy]

Linus took this post to the other thread. It actually belongs in here, although probably has a place in the new thread.


'Two Spirit' is about Native Americans.........ya know........those pesky folks who lived on this land prior to white people invading..........

I kinda wish all these white folks would stop stealing cultural terms from Native Americans. Two spirit is not for white folks to use anytime they want. Try learning before you appropriate terms from other cultures. Two spirit literally means 'having both a masculine spirit and a feminine spirit'.

I don't personally know any white FtMs/transmen who claim they have a feminine spirit. They only claim a male spirit.

Do some research folks.........

[Diva]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Linus took this post to the other thread. It actually belongs in here, although probably has a place in the new thread.


'Two Spirit' is about Native Americans.........ya know........those pesky folks who lived on this land prior to white people invading..........

I kinda wish all these white folks would stop stealing cultural terms from Native Americans. Two spirit is not for white folks to use anytime they want. Try learning before you appropriate terms from other cultures. Two spirit literally means 'having both a masculine spirit and a feminine spirit'.

I don't personally know any white FtMs/transmen who claim they have a feminine spirit. They only claim a male spirit.

Do some research folks.........

I'm not sure I should even address this, however, the reason I used the term "two~spirited" was because I had been told by a Transman that He is two~spirited person. And, while He does have a portion of American Indian blood coursing through His veins, He also has Italian, Filipino and Hispanic bloodlines.

So....while what I have experienced with this one Guy is Male, He claims His second spirit as well, and I accept that.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Linus took this post to the other thread. It actually belongs in here, although probably has a place in the new thread.


'Two Spirit' is about Native Americans.........ya know........those pesky folks who lived on this land prior to white people invading..........

I kinda wish all these white folks would stop stealing cultural terms from Native Americans. Two spirit is not for white folks to use anytime they want. Try learning before you appropriate terms from other cultures. Two spirit literally means 'having both a masculine spirit and a feminine spirit'.

I don't personally know any white FtMs/transmen who claim they have a feminine spirit. They only claim a male spirit.

Do some research folks.........

This was my post....it's post #49. Diva responded to it a bit later on.....post #75. Diva's original post that caused my post was before #49.

And yes........my response was about cultural appropriation.

here is a link for a local two-spirit group http://www.baaits.org/

other two spirit info can be found here:
http://www.nativeout.com/

[SuperFemme]

I am attracted to human beings.
I am also attracted to the brains of human beings.
If you cannot get my brain to third base you are not going
to get my body to first base.

So I guess I cannot properly answer the original question because it is too limiting. Sorry.

[Kenna]

Originally Posted by adorable

*snip snip*

Imagine if I were to write what I wanted - HA! O-M-G. Exactly ONE person would understand it. I know that for a fact because most people don't even understand pieces of it. But it's my thing. MY thing. Judging other people's kinks, or preferences, or a certain look, or a way of life...is tough to do when it's not your thing. So is explaining why we want what we want. It's like trying to explain why we love apple pie to someone that hates it. We love it because it tastes good. They hate it because it tastes bad. Who is right? Well of course, we are because who the hell doesn't love apple pie? Weirdo's.
*snip snip*

Yep yep!! That's it!! They taste good!! For those that don't like my kinda apple pie, I'll make them a cherry pie or cheesecake. But..ummmmm...yummy! Pass the whipped topping and ice cream!

I'm not sure why I'm attracted to a particular person... or what attracts me to them. I don't have a list of expectations of physical markers or appearances to check off when I first meet someone. I don't find myself attracted to a "general" population of individuals or a multitude of specific gendered persons... it is about the individual for me. With each individual that has made my heart flutter (which has been VERY few)... it's always something different that attracted me. But reflecting upon the individuals that have certainly caught my attention... some of the common factors have been masculinity; common likes & dislikes; a definite, mutual, strong chemistry; mechanically inclined and they don't put me down for also loving all things mechanical; intelligent (and not afraid to be cocky or a smartass sometimes); strength (inner and physical); a very witty, fun personality; (a few other traits I could bore you with); and for some strange reason, dark hair, dark eyes and sun-kissed warm skin from working outside. I am NOT attracted to the "bad boy" type; but do get flutters when someone I'm attracted to likes motorcycles, large trucks and other heavy machinery (this goes along with my love of all things mechanical - especially things with large, loud engines -"MORE POWER BABY!")

What attracts me to someone who is TG or FtM? Ummmm maybe it's the way my heart skipped a beat when he stepped down out of his truck, all HAWT in his sunglasses, new jeans and dark hair just cropped short? YOWZA!! That look of confidence just made my heart flutter!! I took a double take that day! Yeah... and I got a picture of that truck too!!

What attracted me to my first crush/first B/F relationship years ago with someone who IDs as Soft Butch and has very strong masculine energy/traits? How she looked in her biker leathers...on the back of her Harley! or decked out for work in her oxford long sleeve shirt, jeans and work boots. Ummm, and her dark, wavy hair and sexy sunglasses. Damn! come to think of it... I NEVER did get a ride on that Harley!! But the sight of her very masculine "tough" self made me melt. She now has a crush on my sister!! LOL

Maybe I was attracted to a certain individual when they were so thoughtful when they handed me my favorite ice cream during a stressful moment?

I found them each attractive in their own unique, personal, individual, special way. Especially their personalities and their inner strength....their physical strength was an added bonus.

After I broke it off with my old crush... I used to think I couldn't be attracted to someone that wasn't Soft Butch. I've changed, and so have my personal attractions... but I still LOVE apple pie!!

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I am attracted to human beings.
I am also attracted to the brains of human beings.
If you cannot get my brain to third base you are not going
to get my body to first base.

So I guess I cannot properly answer the original question because it is too limiting. Sorry.

Thank you very much for this, SuperFemme. Very well stated and I agree completely with the highlighted section. For me, it wasn't as limiting as the stress of possibly upsetting someone with my response. I didn't want to respond with generalizations. I knew that would trigger some folks. I have found myself attracted to FtM, TG, and Soft Butch individuals. I have considered dating Stone Butch individuals. But they MUST get my brain to third base...and must be on common ground with me, before moving my body anywhere near first base.

[apretty]

some of these posts have a tone of female self-subjugation.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by TenderKnight

You know.. I'm so not going to be a smartass here.. but I will say this.. No one does laundry better then a femme that is bare foot and in the kitchen.. and preggers with our love chile..

But really.. I know a transguy that can fluff and fold like nobody's business!

-Tony, who is totally being a smart ass.. Not all femmes can do laundry the way I like it..

oh no not so! I had this sweet little submissive ftm that came to take care of me a few times. HE did the best laundry ever and looked pretty damn good bare foot, in the kitchen cooking and cleaning. I use to call him my fag because he was as nelly as they come. I'd love to find another one but maybe a little older and has his head more together.

[GoofyLuvr]

Wow did this take off!!! Quite illuminating, actually. And has really made me think and analyze myself, my actions, my behaviors, and my feelings. And here's what I've come up with for myself.

I said before I've been struggling for years over who it is exactly I'm attracted to. And "struggle" is actually putting it mildly. I've always said I fall in love with the person, not what is on the outside. To this day, this remains a true statement. I've been with a lot of women, always butch, yet also always felt something was missing. And they probably knew it, cos I wasn't into their female parts like a "good lesbian" should be. (My words for myself, not directed at anybody else.) I've tried my best to be attracted to bio-males (and yes, I'm going to use that terminology as it helps make my point) and yet have never been able to find one that I have chemistry with. And I know some really nice, loving, sensitive bio-males, but they just aren't for me. My life would be so much easier sometimes if I was, from family relationships to societal interactions.

There is something about a trans-guy that fits me to a T. I've dated a few, and NEVER thought of them as "woman". But can I define why it is that I am attracted to the "trans-guy" and not "bio-male". Nope, sure can't. Wish to God I could. I can, though, say that I do not want to be with a woman again, no matter how butch she is. My own needs don't get met when I am with a woman, no matter how butch she/hy may be. It's just as simple as that. It's a gender that doesn't fit me, although it fits better than the male gender. I still get blisters when I put that shoe on, though.

I am attracted to the gender of a trans-man. I don't expect anything other than he be himself, as I am myself. On the flip side of the expectations, though, I've actually been told that I wouldn't be attractive to anyone of the trans-guy gender because I'm not high femme. I don't agree with this statement, and actually find it insulting not for myself, but for the gender. It's a backwards way of saying that a trans-guy has to be with a high-femme woman (whether she considers herself straight or not) to justify and emphasize his masculinity. And that just isn't so. And I'm not saying that the ones of this gender that are attracted to high femmes are so because of the aforesaid reasoning, I'm saying the person who made that statement needs to rethink their beliefs. People are attracted to people, whatever gender they may be attracted to. I id myself as queer because it's a simple way to make my preferences known. I'm not, though, going to be attracted to someone just becausehe is trans. That is only the first step. There is a whole lot more that needs to be known before I can say I'm attracted. I'm just saying he has a hell of a better chance at getting my attention than someone from another gender does.

[apretty]

outside of fetish, how would someone base their attraction on "being formerly" anything?

dylan--don't start because the title clearly says FTM.

[Billy]

wow ..lol I came home all these posts ! I need read threw but I wanted to say thanks for who have posted