OFOS Butches & Femmes

[clay]

Originally Posted by Bootsandheels

This thread deserves a big BUMP and let's hope for some lively discussion as well! As a self proclaimed OFOS femme (we are a rare breed methinks) I have had some interesting experiences as of late within the last month. I was getting to know someone first online, then in person and I thought for all intents and purposes that we were dating. Unfortunately, interest in each other waned once we spent enough time together.
Save for one breakfast that I paid for, she paid for everything else with the exception of an event that I personally had invited her to that I will be reimbursing her for as she kindly got the tickets for us as I was super busy that day. What I am having an issue with is her bringing up the fact that she "paid for everything". It made me feel like I had missed some secret message that I was supposed to be paying for my 1/2 or offering to go Dutch on things. This butch KNEW I was OFOS and delighted in that fact. I also had at the very beginning ASKED if I should pay for my meal to be crystal clear that she was ok with paying. She wouldn't hear of it, even though I was more than willing. You know, sometimes, even if I am thinking we are dating when it's early days and brand new, sometimes it's nice to offer and not expect the butch to pay for everything right off the bat you know what I mean? I am very sensitive to this and always check in. I have NEVER ever EVER had a butch that I dated briefly (and no there was absolutely no sexual intimacy or expectation of that) come back at me with this statement of "I paid for pretty much everything except the one breakfast". Wow...I am a little dumbfounded and confused here. If a butch shows up on the very first meet and greet date with a bouquet of absolutely gorgeous flowers and proceeds to invite you out to dinner and invite or say let's go to....whatever restaurant/coffee place/etc. I take that to mean you are DATING ME especially if you KNOW I am an OFOS and you might not have dated an OFOS femme much in the past, but you were delighted to have found one TO date! Honestly...help a femme out here...I am just wanting to make sure I didn't miss anything! I don't date a lot and I had high hopes for this butch, but when she said that to me, it felt like she was implying that I should have been more sensitive and offered to pay for more or 1/2 of whatever she invited me to do! It's left a bad taste in my mouth and I just want to know there are OFOS butches out there that get it! I'm so selective in who I date, and I am so glad I nipped this in the bud because it was obviously going to be more thorny down the road! Please do NOT ask me who because a true OFOS lady would NEVER do that! Thank you for reading, for your input and feedback!

((((((((((((((((((((((((((Boots))))))))))))))))))) ))
First off let me say I am so very sorry that you had this bad experience!

There ARE still OFOS Butches left (yes, I AM one of them!!) and we are out there, just perhaps not in close proximity.

I want to strongly disagree with "bringing flowers on first date may suggest an "I wanna sex you"....OH hell NO! Bringing flowers is in no way a sign of expecting anything....at least not in MY book!!! I bring a bouquet just to say "I was thinking of you when I saw these and wanted to surprise you". I tend to ask questions and PAY attention to little hints a woman may drop regarding her likes, dislikes, etc.

I am also one who will make it crystal clear whom is paying for the meal...and yes, sometimes, a femme does and will ask me & state clearly "I am paying, I asked". No matter whom does the asking, it should be made precisely clear whom IS paying or if "dutch" or "double dutch".

Being OFOS, in MY book, is NOT about money or status....it is about my core being..who I am deep inside...it is my moral compass...my integrity....my true North....in how I interact with an OFOS Femme and how I make her feel..protected, secure, appreciated, valued as an OFOS Femme AND a woman. It is about how I made her feel..as a lady...as a woman..and enhanced her feelings of being respected for herself. I would hope she has a smile on her face & joy in her heart..and want to see me..again..and again..because she felt it in her heart.

My manners of being an OFOS butch include, but not limited to, RESPECTING her as a woman, opening a door, pulling out her seat, helping her to don & doff a coat, OR giving mine should she need it...placing my hand at small of her back while walking, walking on outside of her in public, and walking her to her door after a date....opening it, and giving her a hug & a kiss on the cheek (if amenable to both of us), then going my way. A meal has never, nor will it ever, equate to "expecting sex" afterwards. I wouldn't ever be one to make mention of "how much" or even "how little" may have been spent. My focus would instead be on "how interesting, how enjoyable, ho2w good she felt inside, and how much of HER likes did I include on any outings....considering her likes/dislikes.

I am very old fashioned in my dating someone. I am very respectful of a woman. I will not engage in intimacy until much later (months) after starting to see someone. It is very important to be into enjoying one another, getting to know each other's likes/dislikes, and having that mutual respect to wait. Comedian Steve Harvey once said something to this effect...when you get a new job, you have to wait three months before you get benefits". If we would approach dating as such, waiting a decent time, and focusing instead on the person, relationships might stand a better chance to survive.

There are really no easy answers to things brought up, just each of us have our own ideals, thoughts, and personal opinions. These are some of mine.

OFOS Butch and OFOS Femme does not EVER equate to whom spends the most or least, it isn't about $$ at all but rather who I am in my core....how I treat a woman, how she treats me, mutual respect, being kind, courteous, respectful, having manners, and just plain being true to my inner being, and how I make a woman feel is of utmost importance. I am not a showy kind of butch but rather pay attention to the little things she says. Once we are dating & enjoying each other, I enjoy handwritten notes, a single rose..just because...cooking for her, reading poetry if she likes that, watching a sunset OR sunrise, walking along a waterfront if close by, packing a picnic of her likes and sitting somewhere to enjoy it. None of these puts anyone out $$ so to speak.

A first date should be planned AFTER an initial meet & greet. Sometimes folks get these two mixed up. Agreeing to a public venue to meet the first time, to me, is NOT a date but rather a get to know you kind of meeting, to see if there is any interest to go further.

Boots, know there are a lot of us left. I happen to know you are a wonderful, very classy, stand up kind of OFOS Femme and I know you are a very hard worker, you are very selective, and you deserve a wonderful OFOS Butch....wishing you all the very best and thanks for opening up this dialogue. ((((((((((((((Bootsie))))))))))))))

[BullDog]

I don't know where I came up with double dutch - maybe because there are two people on a date? I'm pretty sure it's just "going dutch" where each person pays their share. Anyway, when I hear Dutch all I can think of is dutch apple pie!

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I don't know where I came up with double dutch - maybe because there are two people on a date? I'm pretty sure it's just "going dutch" where each person pays their share. Anyway, when I hear Dutch all I can think of is dutch apple pie!

Double Dutch is a jump rope technique!

[kittygrrl]

I don't think I've ever had to figure out who does what for whom (on a date) because by the time we get to the dating phase we know each other well enough to understand what we can expect from each other. It's stressful not have a clear understanding of your date's expectations. I don't imagine most dates go well under ambiguous circumstances.

[Femmewench]

The one thing I haven't seen included in the list of OFOS behavior is standing when you're meeting/greeting someone. I have been surprised at how infrequently I've been the recipient of that courtesy even from self identified OFOS butches. The exception is work related. Both men and women I've been meeting/greeting usually do stand to shake my hand.

I don't expect a date to stand each time I leave a table in a restaurant, but I would be impressed. That seems to have fallen out of favor.

And when did helping a woman with her chair stop being a thing? I can remember my dad helping my grandmother (a widow) and then my mom when we ate out. It's the most helpful thing you can do if we're in a skirt or dress.