2020 Presidential Election

[Kätzchen]

I read somewhere, rather recently, that Stacy Abrams is possibly seeking to become a senator for her home state, and that brought joy to my heart. I see her as a methodical individual, who is highly esteemed by constituents in the state of Georgia. I am rooting for her successful bid to become a senator in 20/20.


At this point in time, I am interested in learning more about Julian Castro. I recently was talking with a colleague from my former work campus who is from Guatemala and another friend too, who is Mexican, and both individuals find that Castro's bid for US President, is something they can get behind and support.

So I am watching with great interest, with regard to Beto O'Rourke and Julian Castro, and continue to explore background information concerning the two and remain willing to support any person who ends up being the Democratic nominee for US President.

Btw, I can see Stacy Abrams as US President. She's got a heart for helping to liberate those oppressed in her home state and I find her track record appealing --- both for a bid to be Senator and if one day too, US President. I see the spirit of Kwanzaa about her and appreciate her conduct and decorum in all things known about Stacy Abrams.

[dark_crystal]

I listened to Chapo Traphouse this morning and the first thing they did was roundly mock Julian Castro for supporting meritocracy with his "Brain power is currency" remarks.

Then, Amber A'Lee Frost read her article "It's Bernie, Bitch" out loud, verbatim.

The article basically declares that if the Democrats do not nominate Bernie it is going to be 2016 all over again.

Anti-Trump forces will splinter into capitalist Dems, socialist Dems, and disenchanted Republicans, and Trump's 30% will be enough to beat all three.

I feel that Ms. Frost is encouraging the same tactic for the Democratic nomination that Trump is using for the wall: do it my way or i'll tip the whole apple cart.

As I've said, I vote as A Gay: I want socialism, too, i just don't want to live through a theocracy to get it:

another lukewarm Democratic presidency will not only further impoverish and destabilize the working class and its suffering institutions, it will also all but guarantee that 2024 brings us POTUS Hamburglar in an SS uniform. No, it’s Bernie or bust. I don’t care if we have to roll him out on a hand truck and sprinkle cocaine into his coleslaw before every speech. If he dies mid-run, we’ll stuff him full of sawdust, shove a hand up his ass, and operate him like a goddamn muppet.

If we have to tank another election and live though another four years of stochastic terrorism to get the party Ms. Frost wants, me and mine will not survive it. I guess we've been selected as martyrs?

Yes, there are guileless and gentle souls who voice concern about Sanders’s prospects, policies, or appeal to women and minority voters, and with those people we have conversations. Kindly, confidently, and thoroughly we explain that Bernie Sanders is the best candidate for the working class—and we then spell out, with the same saintly patience, that this means all of the working class. But as for the liberal media, and for those who would disingenuously invoke identity politics to attack the socialist, just remember the magic words: “I know what you’re doing right now, and it doesn’t work on me.”

This irritates me because i feel the scorched-earth progressives have been just as disingenuous with "Bernie's minority problem" as neoliberal handwringers (or Joe Bidens)-- who have nothing to offer except social justice-- have: Bernie is great for minorities and Bernie's policies are great for minorities.

What's bad for minorities is splintering the Democratic party.

if indeed you are a socialist first, then you must be a contrarian pundit second, and this is your one opportunity to drop the professional artifice of “constructive criticism from the left” and choose socialism over media strategy. There are no “impartial” spectators on this one; only partisans and compradors.

That's splintering.

If you have strayed, all is forgiven, but you better come to Jesus right now because memory is long, and history judges the cowardly squish far more harshly than the honest enemy. And you can’t say that no one was there at the time to tell you that this was it—this was the pivotal moment where you had to make the right choice.

I'm not mad, i'm terrified. i'm not interested in fighting this, i want the rest of ya'll to just do as Ms. Frost says bc i'm still (as mentioned in the OP) too traumatized from #NeverHillary to go through it again.

Free college and Medicare for All are still free college and Medicare for All whether or not you're led at the point of a gun.

As a bonus we would also get President Bernie.

[charley]

I wonder what effect that most Democrats now tend to identify as "liberal", as per:

• "Most Democrats now identify as liberal rather than moderate or conservative, a Gallup poll released Tuesday found, marking the first time since the polling giant began asking the question in the 1990s.
  
• "Monday's poll found that 51 percent of Democrats self-identified as liberal in 2018, up slightly from 50 percent in 2017. The percentage of liberals has sharply climbed in recent years, Gallup noted, with 38 percent identifying as liberal in 2008.
  
• "Roughly a third of Democrats -- 34 percent -- identified as moderates in 2018, according to the new poll.
  
• "Members of the Republican Party have remained more staunchly conservative, pollsters found, with 73 percent identifying as conservative in 2018 and just 22 percent calling themselves moderate.
  
• "At least 70 percent of Republicans have identified as conservative since 2008, according to Gallup.
  
• "Monday's poll was based on telephone interviews with 13,852 random adults in 2018. The margin of error is 1 percentage point.
  
• "The poll results come as Democrats have retaken the majority in the House with a caucus that contains a number of high-profile progressives, such as Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), who have pushed for policies like Medicare for all and a Green New Deal.
  
• "GOP pundits and critics have questioned whether the Democratic caucus, which contains numerous more moderate members as well, will be able to push a unified agenda."

(my emphasis on the word "liberal")

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...st-time-gallup

[Martina]

I don't think it's gonna go that way. I am glad for the voices on the left. They remind us of reality in this surreal political landscape. I am not totally neverhillary because I voted for her, but I hated her as a candidate -- with a white hot heat.

I don't know if you can go by me, but I will vote for any not totally sold out Dem. I guess I am a little ideosyncratic in how I determine that. I dislike and would not vote for Corey Booker, but would vote for Biden.

I think there are a lot of lefties like me who don't feel the anti-mainstream Dem heat as strongly after two years of Trump.

[kittygrrl]

i will vote for a moderate democrat in primaries even though i am very left leaning..because i want a candidate that will appeal to a wider variety of midwest voters and those in red states. This is the smarter choice.

[WheatToast]

Originally Posted by kittygrrl

i will vote for a moderate democrat in primaries even though i am very left leaning..because i want a candidate that will appeal to a wider variety of midwest voters and those in red states. This is the smarter choice.

My sentiments exactly.
If Bernie decides to run, more power to him, but he is not a Democrat and if he runs he should proudly run as the Independent he constantly says he is.
He siphoned off votes from Clinton, partly because he refused to leave the race once the Democratic leadership felt he had overstayed his welcome.
It is my understanding he was given permission to run as a Democrat because he agreed to certain terms--like quitting the race when asked to do so, after being allowed to introduce his "radical" ideas to the wider Democratic audience, and to the entire nation.
The problems began as Bernie started ragging on Hillary, then he started complaining that the Democrats were favoring Clinton. When his rhetoric got so intense he threatened a contested DNC convention, it was too much for the Democrats who had given him permission to run under their flag.
While some may say the Democrats broke their initial agreement to treat him fairly, when he became aggressive and antagonistic, Democrats maintain it was he who was being unfair and violating their implicit agreements.

When Putin-backed WikiLeaks published the DNC's stolen e-mail, where HRC's Campaign Chair John Podesta and DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman-Schultz were trash talking Bernie...IT WAS PRIVATE e-mail.
Imagine if you had a house guest who begged you to allow him to stay, then when he started eavesdropping, cutting his toenails on the couch, farting all over the house, complaining about the cooking, starting arguments with the hosts and otherwise being an ungrateful mooch who had clearly overstayed his welcome, so you and your partner started plotting via private e-mail to get him out of the house.
That e-mail might contain a lot of fanciful plans to oust him. It would probably also contain some unfiltered insults that were part of the private brainstorming.
In life, it seems only the most obnoxious guests fail to get the hint when it comes to keeping their end of the bargain and not imposing.
When it becomes a he said/she said--most would agree the owner of the house should prevail.

Back then, once the Democrats realized Trump was a loose cannon and would say or do anything to win, the last thing the Democrats needed was a contentious interloper to distract them from the task at hand. They did not need him to provide the GOP with talking points against Hillary, which he did in spades. His open, vituperative criticism of Hillary and the DNC siphoned votes and created massive in-fighting-- that surprisingly still prevails today between Democrats and those of his fans who are not Russian Bots.
The fact* that the Mueller investigation uncovered proof that the Russians interfered with the electoral process in order to help Trump, Bernie and Jill Stein beat Hillary makes me wonder if Bernie knew that ahead of time. Given his lifelong fascination with the Soviet Union and his irascible nature, who knows?

Note--I may wonder, but I have no desire to sword fight any of his die-hard fans on this site. Like him if you want--but I don't. Like many, I used to love him and valued his leftist agenda as a Senator. To this day, I have no burning desire for him to leave that job.
I just think he fucked the Democrats in the 2016 race, and he thereby contributed to the clusterfuck that gave us Trump.
That makes him dead to me.

Bottom line, I'm a yellow dog Democrat--if the Republicans run the risen Jesus Christ and the Democrats run a yellow dog, I'm going for Old Yeller.



*easy to vet--be my guest

[kittygrrl]

Originally Posted by WheatToast

My sentiments exactly.
If Bernie decides to run, more power to him, but he is not a Democrat and if he runs he should proudly run as the Independent he constantly says he is.
He siphoned off votes from Clinton, partly because he refused to leave the race once the Democratic leadership felt he had overstayed his welcome.
It is my understanding he was given permission to run as a Democrat because he agreed to certain terms--like quitting the race when asked to do so, after being allowed to introduce his "radical" ideas to the wider Democratic audience, and to the entire nation.
The problems began as Bernie started ragging on Hillary, then he started complaining that the Democrats were favoring Clinton. When his rhetoric got so intense he threatened a contested DNC convention, it was too much for the Democrats who had given him permission to run under their flag.
While some may say the Democrats broke their initial agreement to treat him fairly, when he became aggressive and antagonistic, Democrats maintain it was he who was being unfair and violating their implicit agreements.

When Putin-backed WikiLeaks published the DNC's stolen e-mail, where HRC's Campaign Chair John Podesta and DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman-Schultz were trash talking Bernie...IT WAS PRIVATE e-mail.
Imagine if you had a house guest who begged you to allow him to stay, then when he started eavesdropping, cutting his toenails on the couch, farting all over the house, complaining about the cooking, starting arguments with the hosts and otherwise being an ungrateful mooch who had clearly overstayed his welcome, so you and your partner started plotting via private e-mail to get him out of the house.
That e-mail might contain a lot of fanciful plans to oust him. It would probably also contain some unfiltered insults that were part of the private brainstorming.
In life, it seems only the most obnoxious guests fail to get the hint when it comes to keeping their end of the bargain and not imposing.
When it becomes a he said/she said--most would agree the owner of the house should prevail.

Back then, once the Democrats realized Trump was a loose cannon and would say or do anything to win, the last thing the Democrats needed was a contentious interloper to distract them from the task at hand. They did not need him to provide the GOP with talking points against Hillary, which he did in spades. His open, vituperative criticism of Hillary and the DNC siphoned votes and created massive in-fighting-- that surprisingly still prevails today between Democrats and those of his fans who are not Russian Bots.
The fact* that the Mueller investigation uncovered proof that the Russians interfered with the electoral process in order to help Trump, Bernie and Jill Stein beat Hillary makes me wonder if Bernie knew that ahead of time. Given his lifelong fascination with the Soviet Union and his irascible nature, who knows?

Note--I may wonder, but I have no desire to sword fight any of his die-hard fans on this site. Like him if you want--but I don't. Like many, I used to love him and valued his leftist agenda as a Senator. To this day, I have no burning desire for him to leave that job.
I just think he fucked the Democrats in the 2016 race, and he thereby contributed to the clusterfuck that gave us Trump.
That makes him dead to me.

Bottom line, I'm a yellow dog Democrat--if the Republicans run the risen Jesus Christ and the Democrats run a yellow dog, I'm going for Old Yeller.



*easy to vet--be my guest

yes Trump was bad but then so was Bernie..he helped get Trump elected, which i will never forgive him for. He did so much damage to the Democratic party with all his snipes and outright attacks against Hillary and the party, when he had promised he would act with decorum. What a liar. He's a russian loving, non Democrat a LOT like Trump only sneakier about his real agenda. Honeymoon in Russia to visit Kremlin, how cozy..ick...i wouldn't vote for him in a million years. He's reminds me of Trump. He is every bit as nasty as Trump and is totally eaten up with how cool he is and what a large following of willing minions..Where is the difference??!? I didn't see any in 2012 and i don't see any now. He needs to go home and stay out of it.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by Martina

I don't think it's gonna go that way. I am glad for the voices on the left. They remind us of reality in this surreal political landscape. I am not totally neverhillary because I voted for her, but I hated her as a candidate -- with a white hot heat.

I don't know if you can go by me, but I will vote for any not totally sold out Dem. I guess I am a little ideosyncratic in how I determine that. I dislike and would not vote for Corey Booker, but would vote for Biden.

I think there are a lot of lefties like me who don't feel the anti-mainstream Dem heat as strongly after two years of Trump.

I am concerned about Russia. Whether or not people are currently feeling the anti-mainstream heat, Russia will make sure sentiments like these grow legs.

Chapo Traphouse stated multiple times that interest in the Russia investigation was a litmus test for who NOT to support among the Dem candidates.

It's like they are Russian Meddling deniers, despite extensive proof that the Russians used them last time.

This will make just make the left a better weapon.

[Martina]

Kamala now, which I guess we knew. I like her.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

I am concerned about Russia. Whether or not people are currently feeling the anti-mainstream heat, Russia will make sure sentiments like these grow legs.

Chapo Traphouse stated multiple times that interest in the Russia investigation was a litmus test for who NOT to support among the Dem candidates.

It's like they are Russian Meddling deniers, despite extensive proof that the Russians used them last time.

This will make just make the left a better weapon.

Part of the reason the #NeverHillary situation last year was so terrifying to me was because it was as much IRL than online, in that i had 2 Sanders supporters close to me (both guys, one white/cishet) who hated Hillary Clinton so much that i thought they were about to stroke out over it. Ruining ever happy hour and dinner party and ranting 24/7 on facebook. And i couldn't mute them because i was going to see them.

Anyway, i feel like this lingering hatred is driving the tendency of outlets like Chapo Traphouse to mock and dismiss the Russia situation.

If Russia delivered the election to Trump, Clinton's loss was not because of how badly she sucked. It was not because the Democrats failed to nominate Bernie.

If Trump cheated, then Clinton didn't lose.

Clinton's loss validates the idea that the Democrats need to move further left. If she didn't lose, some of that validation shift back to the center.

We're not supposed to talk abut politics at work, but we have talked about the Russian meddling because it is relevant to our work.

I have colleagues who feel like what Russia did was no big deal.

If Russia changed votes by amplifying and promoting misinformation, they believe that's fair. Critical thinking is available to everyone, they say, and if people had used it, Russia's tricks wouldn't have worked.

I guess that's what Chapo Traphouse thinks, too.

But is critical thinking available to everyone? I don't feel that it is, and part of a librarian's job is to address that.

[Martina]

A lot of us on the left have a broader critique of mainstream Democrats than just our hatred of Clintons. Working people have been betrayed by corporatist Democrats, who contributed to our headlong rush into a society of extreme economic inequality. Without the challenge from the left, Democrats would still be singing their same old song.

There has not been any over correction. I was hearing that BS on NPR today. Today's left are espousing FDR brand policies. The world canted way to the right starting with Reagan. Sensible folk are pointing that out in order to create a more humane system.

I do care about defeating Trump, but I also care about the truth. The idea that the Democratic Party is too far to the left is a joke.

After Trump, these divisions will still be with us, and I am not going to pretend that the Dems have not massively betrayed this country for any single election, even 2020.

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

I listened to Chapo Traphouse this morning and the first thing they did was roundly mock Julian Castro for supporting meritocracy with his "Brain power is currency" remarks.

Then, Amber A'Lee Frost read her article "It's Bernie, Bitch" out loud,verbatim

This article was retracted by the publisher

[dark_crystal]

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

I like that Bernie announced upon the heels of Schultz trying to blackmail the Dems over nominating him-- bc i, too, am a troll.

Now we are going to get to see who moves to the center to placate Schultz.

And any Dems who want to give Schultz the finger have only 1 way to do it: get behind Bernie. Schultz said specifically who he was most worried about.

ALSO

i like that Russia pushed his narrative to spoil Hillary/help Trump last cycle-- bc now all of their trollery bites them in the ass. Bernie's message is very visible and the Russians helped. Now their tactics become our asset.

It's beautiful.

I take this back lol

Originally Posted by dark_crystal

I listened to Chapo Traphouse this morning and the first thing they did was roundly mock Julian Castro for supporting meritocracy with his "Brain power is currency" remarks.

Then, Amber A'Lee Frost read her article "It's Bernie, Bitch" out loud, verbatim.

The article basically declares that if the Democrats do not nominate Bernie it is going to be 2016 all over again.

Anti-Trump forces will splinter into capitalist Dems, socialist Dems, and disenchanted Republicans, and Trump's 30% will be enough to beat all three.

I'm not mad, i'm terrified. i'm not interested in fighting this, i want the rest of ya'll to just do as Ms. Frost says bc i'm still (as mentioned in the OP) too traumatized from #NeverHillary to go through it again.

Free college and Medicare for All are still free college and Medicare for All whether or not you're led at the point of a gun.

As a bonus we would also get President Bernie.

But not this

[BullDog]

There's plenty of obnoxious real Bernie followers and not fake bots drummed by the Russians. The Bros and others are real. Sanders never spoke up against them - only one of the many things I don't like about him.

I think Sanders would lose in a huge wipeout. I don't think his following is as strong as it was the last time around and he didn't have near enough to win the last time either. Many people I know who were followers of his before are quite disenchanted with him.

Of course, there are still the Bernie faithful and you won't convince them otherwise that Sanders isn't the answer. I definitely don't even bother trying.

We'll see.

[Martina]

My toxicity has nothing to do with being a Bernie follower. I am a supporter. An enthusiastic one, but my obnoxious online behavior has never, I believe, been on behalf of Bernie. It has been anti-Clinton, but it would have been so regardless of what other candidate I supported. I doubt there's more genuine assholery among Bernie supporters than any other group. I also am sure there's been some Russian intervention. I heard that that is picking up in spite of the efforts of the social media companies

[BullDog]

Assuming Russia still wants Trump to win I would think they will do whatever they can to take down whoever the Democrat is. If they try to help Bernie initially it's because they think he is easy to beat. I expect they will go after Biden hard.

Last I heard, Trump wanted to run against Warren, closely followed by Sanders. I think the Republicans believe those are the easiest ones to run against.

As obnoxious as I find some (emphasis some) Bernie followers, it's the candidate I vote for not the followers. He doesn't stand up or try to stop the obnoxious ones and that is one thing that bothers me. At least McCain spoke up against some of his looney tune followers (yeah he went with Palin which stirred a lot of it up in the first place so definitely far from perfect).

He didn't support Clinton hard enough after he lost. He didn't speak out against the sexism and lies of the Bros. He doesn't help the Democratic party - just runs as a Democrat when it's convenient for him. He's not a team player.

If he wins the Democratic nomination I will vote for him. Then brace for the landslide but still hope for the best.

[WheatToast]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen

I read somewhere, rather recently, that Stacy Abrams is possibly seeking to become a senator for her home state, and that brought joy to my heart. I see her as a methodical individual, who is highly esteemed by constituents in the state of Georgia. I am rooting for her successful bid to become a senator in 20/20.


At this point in time, I am interested in learning more about Julian Castro. I recently was talking with a colleague from my former work campus who is from Guatemala and another friend too, who is Mexican, and both individuals find that Castro's bid for US President, is something they can get behind and support.

So I am watching with great interest, with regard to Beto O'Rourke and Julian Castro, and continue to explore background information concerning the two and remain willing to support any person who ends up being the Democratic nominee for US President.

Btw, I can see Stacy Abrams as US President. She's got a heart for helping to liberate those oppressed in her home state and I find her track record appealing --- both for a bid to be Senator and if one day too, US President. I see the spirit of Kwanzaa about her and appreciate her conduct and decorum in all things known about Stacy Abrams.

Stacy Abrams was robbed! Still, her composure and tact were admirable, and I hope she has a bright future in Democratic politics.
In Texas, Beto really made a splash in the midterm Senate race against the loathsome Ted Cruz. He seemed to savor all the national attention and he made some noteworthy remarks on controversial issues. He's just a lovable guy.
However, his recent cross country solo tour made me wonder how he could embark on such a lengthy trip after having just been on the campaign trail the entire year before. Doesn't he like to be with his wife and little kids?
Perhaps Trump has made me paranoid about the selfishness some politicians show, but when Beto's tour included a video with him sitting in a dental chair for a tooth cleaning, it hit me the wrong way. I mean, seriously, how much does he think we want to see of him?
I still like him and hope he does well in the POTUS primaries, but I want a president who is strictly business, knows his or her shit, and frankly someone who bores me rather than grabbing my attention like some gimmicky reality star.
That brings to mind Julian Castro--a policy wonk and straight arrow* who never seemed desperate to grab the spotlight as HUD Secretary, or the mayor of a large city. His humility is at a premium after Trump's lack thereof.
Add to that, today's entrance of the fabulous Camilla Harris, a brilliant prosecutor, an effective California AG, and an even more effective legislator for California.
Seems to me, the females in both houses are more willing to lock horns with Trump and his robotic GOP legislators.
We need an Amazon or Superman to preside over the White House after this lunatic--especially when it comes to repairing the damage he did with NATO and our European allies.
I think it would also help our international reputation to elect anyone but another straight, white guy. They've had 200+ years to eff things up, and
they no longer adequately represent America's richly diverse population.

* Speaking of arrows, Hispanic Americans have started calling Trump "cool arrow," pronounced "culero," which is Spanish for asshole. lolol!