Trans and Relationship's

[Liam]

Originally Posted by Sam

I have so many things going on in my mind and im curious.

For the Single trans guys out there, do you have issues from the Community telling you to look outside your "gay community" for a relationship?

I am not aware of my community telling me to look outside of my "gay community," for a relationship.

Do you get bashed because you date within your community?

No one has bashed me to my "face," because I seek potential dating partners from within my community.

Conversation has it, we should not be dating lesbian's, femme women inside our community. I disagree, because some transguy's stay within the community. NOT all date straight women.

I just dont agree on this subject.

How do you feel? Simple conversation, not a community bashing thread.

No nit picking. Just curious.

I am interested in femmes or queer gals, I'm not interested in dating lesbians—nor do I believe they would be interested in dating me. While my participation in my community may fluctuate, I choose to stay connected.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by Liam

I am interested in femmes or queer gals, I'm not interested in dating lesbians—nor do I believe they would be interested in dating me. While my participation in my community may fluctuate, I choose to stay connected.

ditto. this seems to be my niche — the availability of transensual femmes who I find very attractive. It;s just too bad it'll never happen. (for reasons)

[Dylan]

I find it interesting that trans people are not only told they are not part of the glbTq community, but they're also then told how to act/acceptable terms/whom they may partner with/etc when they are in the glbTq

Yet the same 'rules' are not expected when the glbq's are in the T community

This isn't a retort towards you June...honest. I'm talking about the OP.

I have definitely been told I whom I 'should' be dating. We have all been told how we 'should' act in this community. We've all seen those who don't 'behave' excommunicated. It's just funny to me that trans ppl are often seen as 'guests' of the glbq community who can be easily discarded if they don't abide by the 'rules' even though we've helped the glbq community forever. Yet never once have I seen a cis glbq ask about their behavior when in T space...it's almost just an assumption that glbq's 'should' be welcome.

It's just funny to me


In A Not HaHa Way,
Dylan

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I find it interesting that trans people are not only told they are not part of the glbTq community, but they're also then told how to act/acceptable terms/whom they may partner with/etc when they are in the glbTq

Yet the same 'rules' are not expected when the glbq's are in the T community

This isn't a retort towards you June...honest. I'm talking about the OP.

I have definitely been told I whom I 'should' be dating. We have all been told how we 'should' act in this community. We've all seen those who don't 'behave' excommunicated. It's just funny to me that trans ppl are often seen as 'guests' of the glbq community who can be easily discarded if they don't abide by the 'rules' even though we've helped the glbq community forever. Yet never once have I seen a cis glbq ask about their behavior when in T space...it's almost just an assumption that glbq's 'should' be welcome.

It's just funny to me


In A Not HaHa Way,
Dylan

Perhaps this may be a worthwhile separate thread to start, Dylan.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by Sam

I have so many things going on in my mind and im curious.

For the Single trans guys out there, do you have issues from the Community telling you to look outside your "gay community" for a relationship?

Do you get bashed because you date within your community?

Conversation has it, we should not be dating lesbian's, femme women inside our community. I disagree, because some transguy's stay within the community. NOT all date straight women.

I just dont agree on this subject.

How do you feel? Simple conversation, not a community bashing thread.

No nit picking. Just curious.

Originally Posted by Linus

Perhaps this may be a worthwhile separate thread to start, Dylan.

I've bolded the parts that make me feel it's right on target with the conversation and OP

Queers (queer trans people) are often told they *should* be dating straight people...even if the GLBTQ community is theirs too.

Queer transpeople are also told how to act in the GLBTQ community ("You shouldn't be dating SoAndSo"/"You shouldn't be seeking a partner here"/etc)

Yet, the same rules don't apply for cis queers


I Think It's Right In Line With The Conversation,
Dylan

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Dylan

I've bolded the parts that make me feel it's right on target with the conversation and OP

Queers (queer trans people) are often told they *should* be dating straight people...even if the GLBTQ community is theirs too.

Queer transpeople are also told how to act in the GLBTQ community ("You shouldn't be dating SoAndSo"/"You shouldn't be seeking a partner here"/etc)

Yet, the same rules don't apply for cis queers


I Think It's Right In Line With The Conversation,
Dylan

Sorry. I wasn't clear.

Yes, it's on topic but I'm thinking it may be an interesting discussion in a larger scheme beyond dating.

[PapaC]

Be Yourself. If you feel like you need to ask permission within a community for allowances...
expect someone to say no.

But then, I didn't find like I was turned into an instant pariah after that (gasp) one shot of T coursed into my veins and I became a big bad man and all.

it's a complex situation, sure, but when you look for complex situations, you usually find them.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by June

Dylan -- You can retort back to me! And I do get what you are saying, I have seen that as well.

For me, when I am in this space, I operate on the assumption that we are all willing participants in the same broader community that we all create here. Not the .com, the people who choose to engage here. That may very well be coming from a place of Femme Privilege for me, I am a Femme in the Butch/Femme Spectrum. No one ever questions why I am here. (Well, perhaps some people wish I would sit down and shut up, but that's a whole 'nother issue!).

Yes, certain behaviors are called into question. For instance, it is well documented that I am not a fan of "I'm so Butch/Femme/Male that I never..." or if a man comes here and says "I'm only interested in straight women", that's problematic for me *here*. Now, if I was sitting across the table from a Transman and he said "I am only interested in straight women" that is different to me, because we are not necessarily in Queer Space. If I was single, and dating or thinking about dating said Man and they said that to me, I would be pretty affronted and probably respond with "Then baby, you are barking up the wrong tree, I'm not straight and even if we dated, I wouldn't be straight". That is me. I know that there are Femmes out there who have partnered with Transmen who do now consider themselves straight.

I hope that I have not come across as "telling" someone who they should or should not partner with, or beyond moderation, telling anyone how they should behave here. I am totally not snarking or yanking your chain when I ask you now for examples, because I think I know, but I don't want to presume I do for sure.

So, let me ask you then.

In re: to the part I've bolded.

A) If a cis woman comes on the site, IDs as queer, but is married to a cis-man, and has no interest in dating ANYONE (because she's happily partnered to her cismale partner)...do you have a problem with her being on the site?

I ask, because I don't consider whom someone is attracted to as relevant to how they ID for themselves, and whether or not that attraction makes or breaks their queerdom. What about butches who date other butches and aren't into femmes at all? Can they still be here? Or are they also an issue.

B) Does whomever One is attracted TO make or break their queer card? In other words, is One's queer identity dependent upon whomever they're interested in? Ergo, is one still queer if One dates, NO ONE?

C) Do YOU believe het people can be queer?


I'm Having A Hard Time Wording Exactly What I Want To Say, So I Lettered...Not Being Curt Or Terse,
Dylan

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by June

No, but I (as in me, June) would wonder if she wasn't questioning. I mean, we're all real fascinating, but couldn't she find the same types of conversations that are not gender oriented somewhere else that catered to straight, cis folks? Now, if she wanted to read and participate, I just don't want to police things that much, and besides, some of my best friends are both straight and cis. So no, I don't personally have a problem with it.

Here's the part that struck me as interesting. I never said anything about the woman IDing as straight. I purposely made no mention of her orientation. But you went ahead and assumed she would ID as straight. It's just interesting to me.

Originally Posted by June

In my personal opinion, Butches who date other Butches are Queer (as in Gay, part of this community because they choose to be here and participate) However they personally ID. So, while it is unlikely that a Butch who is into other Butches would come here and say "I am straight, but I am Butch and into other Butches" I guess, it could happen?

I don't find it unlikely at all that a male ID'd butch would be interested in dating female ID'd butches, and would/could consider that a straight relationship. Butches who date other butches aren't necessarily queer. Lots of different groups use the term butch.

Originally Posted by June

I think I was pretty clear in my example of a straight man wanting to date me and how I feel about my own personal Queerness, they will not make me straight, and in my own personal world, and I have said this before and it's real, real unpopular for some folks, if that man wants to date me, then they get all Queered up by me. And to be clear, any man I would ever date (as far as how I think/feel at this moment) would not be Cis or Straight. If I was single and dating no one, yeah, I would still be a Queer Femme.

Originally Posted by June

if a man comes here and says "I'm only interested in straight women", that's problematic for me *here*.

This is what I was specifically referring to...not the part about a date saying to you, personally, he was only into straight women.

I was wondering if One's partner makes/breaks their queer card. More specifically if a man's queer card gets taken away if he's only interested in dating straight women. If anyone's queer card gets taken away if they date NO ONE. Or if a femme's queer card gets taken away if she only dates men.
Is that problematic for you as well?

Originally Posted by June

I believe they are free to ID as Queer. Do I think they are Queer? No. Not if they are cis and straight. But it doesn't get me all overwrought if they do. It doesn't affect my life anymore than a straight, cis woman married to a straight, cis man does by claiming Femme. Some people do get really worked up over that though.

So, het, cis people can't be queer? Are you saying then that there's no queer communities in the het world? No matter how a person IDs for themselves, you still consider them NOT queer? But, if someone is trans, they're still queer even if they ID as straight? Would it be problematic for you if that straight, cis woman who claimed Femme participated on this site?

I'm not trying to be a pain in one's rear, and I see this as completely on topic...I guess Sam is the boss of that tho. I'm quite interested in having this conversation also (the one Sam presented), and I think breaking it down is a good way of understanding.

And I swear, if the weather weren't so gross outside, I would immediately get offline and ask no more questions for the whole day.

I really have to go do some stuff! I will get back later if I can, and I hope this is not derailing Sam's intent. And also, I hope it's not looking like the June and Dylan show here, my apologies if it does, and you know, Dylan and I can go get a room somewhere and hash this out. [/QUOTE]

Maybe we should make sock puppets?


Dylan

[Sam]

Its all good, its conversation in all variations.

Opinions are fascinating.

[Gayla]

I do love it that y'all make me think about the why's of the ways I think.

For me, "queer" is about the attraction/behavior factor. I guess I see anything outside the norm as being queer so, yes, I know heterosexual people who are queer and I know gay people who are not queer. That's partially me slapping my own label on people and partially the label they choose for themselves.

I think being butch/femme/trans is not, in and of itself queer as much as our attraction to others outside the "normal" spectrum of what is expected somehow queers us. I have many friends who are female ID'd lesbians attracted to other female ID'd lesbians. They do not ID as butch or femme. This is kind of the normal, expected version of lesbian relationships so I don't really see them as queer and most of them don't see themselves that way and many of them are horrified at the word. On the other hand, I know a ton of people who ID as heterosexual but have attractions to / interactions with people in very queer ways.

I think, for me, "queer" is in many ways tied to kink so, based on my reference points, anything that may be seen as "kinky" to the outside world would be seen as "queer" to me. This would include not only people involved in specific BDSM activities but anything else that is viewed as outside the norm for those individuals.

As to some of Dylan's questions, I know several women who are married to cismen and ID as heterosexual who hang out on b-f websites and a couple who hang out in b-f and/or primarily gay kink space in real time. The specific circumstances of their relationships are not my business but if this is where they feel comfortable and what they consider their community, I'm not one to tell them the don't "belong" based on their current relationship. For me, this would go back to the part about individual ID's not being based on who someone is partnered with.

Personally, it would feel a little icky for someone who ID's as a heterosexual male, and does not see themselves as queer in any way, to be here for the purpose of meeting a potential partner (whether that's for a relationship, dating or sex.)

I tried to think this out but I doubt I did a very good job of it really. So, I reserve the right to come back later and completely contradict myself if questioned!

[atomiczombie]

As a transguy, I have insecurities about being part of this community. In many ways I do feel comfortable with you guys and gals in a way I don't feel at all comfortable in the cis/straight world. I consider myself queer, because my primary attraction is to femmes, and I am not at home in the cis/straight world. I love the LGBTQ community.

My insecurities are about how I fit into the butch-femme community as a transguy. Will anyone be interested in me once the T that I am on has changed my body? Will anyone still see me as a legitimate member here? Most importantly, will people here still see ME, and not just my body? I am on disability. I live out in the middle of a rural small town area. I have issues with anxiety and panic disorder. There are plenty of reasons for femmes to not have any interest in me. I just hope that my trans status isn't one of them.

All that being said, only once so far have I pursued a femme who told me no, and it was because she wanted to be with a woman. No one has called me traitor or said I wasn't welcome here. I just worry that it might happen, cause I have heard of guys being treated that way. I think it is sad and hurtful.

And by the way, I am attracted to femmes because they are powerful, strong women who embody femininity and courage and heart. They are bold, unapologetic, and not afraid to stand up and be proud of who they are and who they love. No one else touches my heart and heats my desires like a femme.

Thanks for starting this thread Sam.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by June

This community, and others like it who have some form of Butch/Femme/Trans in the title are not geared towards "Straight" anything, there are other websites out there for that.

I would like to know if that feels bad or offensive to anyone, and why. Because I am very interested in having a respectful dialogue about it, either here, or in another thread if it feels inappropriate here.

(Disclaimer) I am going to be pretty busy over the weekend, so if I do not get back to a post right away, it's not because I am ignoring it!

This is exactly what im trying to find out to be quite honest, although i feel straight i still date within the community because i feel the women understand better and they can decide if they want to be with a transguy or not.

Liam, i get the fluctuating within the community. I try to stay connected.

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Sam

This is exactly what im trying to find out to be quite honest, although i feel straight i still date within the community because i feel the women understand better and they can decide if they want to be with a transguy or not.

Liam, i get the fluctuating within the community. I try to stay connected.

So, you choose femmes b/c they understand YOU better.

Don't femmes have inherent qualities that stand alone and distinct from their potential of understanding transmen?

I'm not trying to come off with snark; I just would like to know what it is about queer femmes that transguys are attracted to that doesn't have anything to do with themselves.

Removing the potential *understanding* that queer femmes may have for transmen, aren't they different and attractive in ways that a straight woman is not?

[Dylan]

And to think

I wondered if I could/should participate in the thread, since I'm not single and the question was posed to single transmen


Dylan

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Dylan

And to think

I wondered if I could/should participate in the thread, since I'm not single and the question was posed to single transmen


Dylan

Ok so i should have left out "single" my mistake.

[Dylan]

June,

Fragile is definitely not a word I would use to describe you.

I just find it interesting that out of nine posts on a question posed to transmen in a trans thread, three of the responses are by cispeople, and two of the posts are asking for explanations while the other one talks about how cispeople feel about trans people in queer space.


It's Just Ironic To Me Especially When Added To The Fact That I Asked The OP If It Would Be Out Of Line If I (as a coupled transperson) Was Welcome To Post,
Dylan

[Sam]

Im sorry for singling out transguys, it was not my intention.

And this is a community and EVERYONE is welcome in this conversation

Dylan be nice lol

sometimes threads heat up, sometimes they die off. im sick of having this conversation with a one sided lesbian that is NOT on the planet but texts me off the wall cause i was interested in HER ex. and i just need input here.

thread is open to EVERYONE. keep it clean

"HowSoonIsNow" i like snarkieness. bring it on.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by Sam

im sick of having this conversation with a one sided lesbian that is NOT on the planet but texts me off the wall cause i was interested in HER ex.

Gosh Sam, block her, no one needs that kind of negativity in their life!

[Soon]

Originally Posted by Sam

"HowSoonIsNow" i like snarkieness. bring it on.

I really don't do snark. So, no, I won't be bringing any!

I asked the question with sincerity.

Apologies for posting in a thread that was not asking for my opinion--I usually read closer and don't intrude upon others' spaces. I blame it on not reading the OP closely enough, then seeing June's post and, mostly, my own compulsion to post when I read your words about femmes understanding you better than straight women and the fact that I have wondered about this subject myself.

Thank you, Sam, for responding to my question/post.